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[bbsam]

The brand is already shredded which is why I no longer wear anything which might identify me as a FedEx employee outside of working hours.
Based on what Sam is saying, they will have no choice but to pay the contractors more, but a crisis will probably have to happen before they do.
So the contractors are talking big right now, but will they actually have the guts to walk out?

I don’t think they care about contractors parking trucks. I think they’d be far more concerned with investors walking away.

 

[bacha29]

I don’t think they care about contractors parking trucks. I think they’d be far more concerned with investors walking away.

The Smith family either directly or through the family holding company control a huge share of the common stock. As long as things are running to their satisfaction and there's a succession plan it place and in appears that there is one based on the announcement the other day nothing in the near term will change significantly and contractors as has been the case for years will continue to fall by the wayside to be replaced by somebody else. .

Now if they have every cent to their name tied up in routes and or FDX stock right now they're taking a hell of a beating but that's the nature of the global economy.

 

[bbsam]

The Smith family either directly or through the family holding company control a huge share of the common stock. As long as things are running to their satisfaction and there's a succession plan it place and in appears that there is one based on the announcement the other day nothing in the near term will change significantly and contractors as has been the case for years will continue to fall by the wayside to be replaced by somebody else. .

Now if they have every cent to their name tied up in routes and or FDX stock right now they're taking a hell of a beating but that's the nature of the global economy.

Ok bacha. Personally I think you’re stuck in 2005. You still think this is about contractors trying to have some kind of leverage. It isn’t.

This is the contractor model falling apart. This is investor/owner types walking away from contracts. It’s X trying to cover more and more areas with “contingency” teams that cost exponentially more.

It’s gotten to the point where contractors apparently don’t care about clauses in their contract and basically give X the finger.

 

[bacha29]

The brand is already shredded which is why I no longer wear anything which might identify me as a FedEx employee outside of working hours.
Based on what Sam is saying, they will have no choice but to pay the contractors more, but a crisis will probably have to happen before they do.
So the contractors are talking big right now, but will they actually have the guts to walk out?

Perhaps a day, two at the most. Many tied every cent they have in the routes doing so with the expectation that growth will allow them to sell for a king's ransom and walk away set for life. Well, if you're one of the lucky few who knew enough get out when the getting was good and it now appears that the good is gone you'll be alright for awhile but if you got greedy thinking that you're going get richer every additional day you hung around that's simply the chance you were comfortable taking.

It's like being at a casino table. If you were lucky enough to beat the house once or twice you don't press your luck, you cash your chips and head out the door.

 

[bacha29]

Ok bacha. Personally I think you’re stuck in 2005. You still think this is about contractors trying to have some kind of leverage. It isn’t.

This is the contractor model falling apart. This is investor/owner types walking away from contracts. It’s X trying to cover more and more areas with “contingency” teams that cost exponentially more.

It’s gotten to the point where contractors apparently don’t care about clauses in their contract and basically give X the finger.

View attachment 376396

So are you saying that things are so bad that Fat Freddy had to put a gag order contractors? And you're a so called "Independent Service Provider". Has the command and control actually reached these levels?
As I said before when they ordered me to turn over to them my payroll records for their so called "audit" claiming that it would be "kept confidential", yeah, right , kept confidential by how many people? That was it for me. Mine like yours was a privately held S-corp. It's payroll records along with every other piece of financial information pertaining to it was privileged information protected by rule of law and none of their business. That didn't stop them and when they demanded my records that was it for me because it became clear that the 1993 out of court settlement no longer meant a damn thing to those people.

A couple of years ago I brought up the idea of contractors running under their own DOT operating authority but you didn't think that Fat Freddy would cede that much control. Now you seem to welcome it.

. The simple fact is that you'll collapse financially long before it does. Perhaps the real basis of your anguish is the fact that you too have simply had it with being told what to do, where to sit, how to act what to say what not to say etc, etc,. This is when you start. This is when you stop. This is what you wear. This is what you drive. This is where you go. This is how you do it. And on and on. Perhaps what you really would like to see is MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction. Both you...and them.

it would appear that you just as I did a few years back have grown tired of being so beholding to him. And in the end you too will want nothing more than to break free regardless of the economic sacrifice.

 

[floridays]

So are you saying that things are so bad that Fat Freddy had to put a gag order contractors? And you're a so called "Independent Service Provider". Has the command and control actually reached these levels?
As I said before when they ordered me to turn over to them my payroll records for their so called "audit" claiming that it would be "kept confidential", yeah, right , kept confidential by how many people? That was it for me. Mine like yours was a privately held S-corp. It's payroll records along with every other piece of financial information pertaining to it was privileged information protected by rule of law and none of their business. That didn't stop them and when they demanded my records that was it for me because it became clear that the 1993 out of court settlement no longer meant a damn thing to those people.

A couple of years ago I brought up the idea of contractors running under their own DOT operating authority but you didn't think that Fat Freddy would cede that much control. Now you seem to welcome it.

. The simple fact is that you'll collapse financially long before it does. Perhaps the real basis of your anguish is the fact that you too have simply had it with being told what to do, where to sit, how to act what to say what not to say etc, etc,. This is when you start. This is when you stop. This is what you wear. This is what you drive. This is where you go. This is how you do it. And on and on. Perhaps what you really would like to see is MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction. Both you...and them.

it would appear that you just as I did a few years back have grown tired of being so beholding to him. And in the end you too will want nothing more than to break free regardless of the economic sacrifice.

It doesn't seem this is an issue of not wanting to be told what to do. The issue is not whether they are true independent contractors.

The issue is cheese.

@bbsam was correct, you seem to be stuck in 2005 still fighting those issues.

 

[bbsam]

So are you saying that things are so bad that Fat Freddy had to put a gag order contractors? And you're a so called "Independent Service Provider". Has the command and control actually reached these levels?
As I said before when they ordered me to turn over to them my payroll records for their so called "audit" claiming that it would be "kept confidential", yeah, right , kept confidential by how many people? That was it for me. Mine like yours was a privately held S-corp. It's payroll records along with every other piece of financial information pertaining to it was privileged information protected by rule of law and none of their business. That didn't stop them and when they demanded my records that was it for me because it became clear that the 1993 out of court settlement no longer meant a damn thing to those people.

A couple of years ago I brought up the idea of contractors running under their own DOT operating authority but you didn't think that Fat Freddy would cede that much control. Now you seem to welcome it.

. The simple fact is that you'll collapse financially long before it does. Perhaps the real basis of your anguish is the fact that you too have simply had it with being told what to do, where to sit, how to act what to say what not to say etc, etc,. This is when you start. This is when you stop. This is what you wear. This is what you drive. This is where you go. This is how you do it. And on and on. Perhaps what you really would like to see is MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction. Both you...and them.

it would appear that you just as I did a few years back have grown tired of being so beholding to him. And in the end you too will want nothing more than to break free regardless of the economic sacrifice.

The gag order has always been there.

The only other way I can paint this is this:

What if a third of the contractors go belly up in a 2 month period?

You seem to think there’s a plan for that. The only thing I can think of is a massive cash infusion into the system. There aren’t enough contingency teams to cover that volume. There isn’t enough capacity amongst the other two thirds to cover that. And as far as other contractors snatching it up for free? It doesn’t happen anymore. It’s simply not worth it.

Maybe it’s that you don’t see the scale of the problem X is facing. That contractors are going to the press is no small deal. We’ll know more on 3/17.

 

[bacha29]

The gag order has always been there.

The only other way I can paint this is this:

What if a third of the contractors go belly up in a 2 month period?

You seem to think there’s a plan for that. The only thing I can think of is a massive cash infusion into the system. There aren’t enough contingency teams to cover that volume. There isn’t enough capacity amongst the other two thirds to cover that. And as far as other contractors snatching it up for free? It doesn’t happen anymore. It’s simply not worth it.

Maybe it’s that you don’t see the scale of the problem X is facing. That contractors are going to the press is no small deal. We’ll know more on 3/17.

Do you realize that if the current contractor model were to collapse and FDX has to go to a completely different model the enterprise value of your contract would go to zero and all you would have left is the salvage value of your trucks who represent one of the fastest depreciating pieces of equipment known to the US economy ?
It would appear that the source of your agony is the fear of what would happen to you economically if the system failure would require a complete transformation of the operating unit to one that would leave you on the outside looking in and if you hold a significant amount of FDX stock you would be even worse off.

In the meantime haul your boxes to wherever they're going to, take your settlement check and don't worry about it because there ain't a damn thing you can do about it anyhow. . You've been at the mercy of the decisions someone else makes ever since your first day there so you should be used to it by now.

 

[Mutineer]

What if a third of the contractors go belly up in a 2 month period?

Assuming the status quo, do you see this as something that could happen at your terminal?

 

[Mutineer]

Do you realize that if the current contractor model were to collapse and FDX has to go to a completely different model the enterprise value of your contract would go to zero and all you would have left is the salvage value of your trucks who represent one of the fastest depreciating pieces of equipment known to the US economy ?
It would appear that the source of your agony is the fear of what would happen to you economically if the system failure would require a complete transformation of the operating unit to one that would leave you on the outside looking in and if you hold a significant amount of FDX stock you would be even worse off.

Jeeez yer a sadist.

I bet you typed that all out with one hand.

The thought of FedEx contractors suffering and losing everything they worked for is like porn to you.

 

[bbsam]

Assuming the status quo, do you see this as something that could happen at your terminal?

Absolutely.

 

[It will be fine]

Assuming the status quo, do you see this as something that could happen at your terminal?

It really is that bad. For decades contractors have counted on peak to turn decent profit and hold cash to get through the slow months of the new year. This past peak FedEx screwed a lot of contractors hard, eliminating any profit and in many cases causing losses during peak. Throw in rapidly increasing fuel costs and the immediate future is bleak for a lot of contractors.

 

[bbsam]

Do you realize that if the current contractor model were to collapse and FDX has to go to a completely different model the enterprise value of your contract would go to zero and all you would have left is the salvage value of your trucks who represent one of the fastest depreciating pieces of equipment known to the US economy ?
It would appear that the source of your agony is the fear of what would happen to you economically if the system failure would require a complete transformation of the operating unit to one that would leave you on the outside looking in and if you hold a significant amount of FDX stock you would be even worse off.

In the meantime haul your boxes to wherever they're going to, take your settlement check and don't worry about it because there ain't a damn thing you can do about it anyhow. . You've been at the mercy of the decisions someone else makes ever since your first day there so you should be used to it by now.

Yes. I realize that.

Now answer this: what difference does it make if I lose my investment? That’s kinda the chance I’ve taken over the years. Am I afraid? Not particularly.

If this were 10 years ago, I may well have been suicidal. But not now. Contracting with this company is what I do. It’s not who I am. I happen to be pretty damn good at what I do and I imagine I could put together a pretty good resume should the day when I find it necessary to separate permanently from X.

Does that surprise you? It shouldn’t. I may have invested too much time and money in X but I can’t say I didn’t reap some pretty cool rewards. I’ve made good money over the years. I’ve been at nearly every school function of my three kids as they’ve grown up. I’ve gotten to spend countless hours volunteering at a soccer club. I’ve met some great people at X. One of my best friends there is a Trumpster former hog farmer. He and I would do anything for each other. Great family man, idiot as far as politics goes. But I really value that we have those differences and yet are such close friends. You don’t see that everywhere these days.

So if my days with X are numbered, so be it. I certainly won’t look at them with bitterness or anger. Life’s too short for that.

 

[bacha29]

Jeeez yer a sadist.

I bet you typed that all out with one hand.

The thought of FedEx contractors suffering and losing everything they worked for is like porn to you.

No it's not porn to me but rather what is happening to a lot of good people shouldn't have been allowed to happen to them. In the past if you've had enough you simply toss the lease and the keys in the truck and walk away. Not so today . As time went by too much borrowed money started to find it's way into this arena and much of it was collateralized with personal homes and savings. Not a good thing to do and innocent people suffered .

 

[Fred's Myth]

No it's not porn to me but rather what is happening to a lot of good people shouldn't have been allowed to happen to them. In the past if you've had enough you simply toss the lease and the keys in the truck and walk away. Not so today . As time went by too much borrowed money started to find it's way into this arena and much of it was collateralized with personal homes and savings. Not a good thing to do and innocent people suffered .

I think you have it backwards. The second mortgage and loans from relatives is how the first wave started. Now you have investment groups and bankers sinking their money into that black hole.

 

[bacha29]

Yes. I realize that.

Now answer this: what difference does it make if I lose my investment? That’s kinda the chance I’ve taken over the years. Am I afraid? Not particularly.

If this were 10 years ago, I may well have been suicidal. But not now. Contracting with this company is what I do. It’s not who I am. I happen to be pretty damn good at what I do and I imagine I could put together a pretty good resume should the day when I find it necessary to separate permanently from X.

Does that surprise you? It shouldn’t. I may have invested too much time and money in X but I can’t say I didn’t reap some pretty cool rewards. I’ve made good money over the years. I’ve been at nearly every school function of my three kids as they’ve grown up. I’ve gotten to spend countless hours volunteering at a soccer club. I’ve met some great people at X. One of my best friends there is a Trumpster former hog farmer. He and I would do anything for each other. Great family man, idiot as far as politics goes. But I really value that we have those differences and yet are such close friends. You don’t see that everywhere these days.

So if my days with X are numbered, so be it. I certainly won’t look at them with bitterness or anger. Life’s too short for that.

So what are you waaaaing about? You don't have any control over the situation. No doubt that the worst part is being strung along indefinitely with the worst direction being no direction. BTW If you weren't worried about what's going to become of you when the fat lady sings you wouldn't be on here expressing your anguish over the matter.

 

[bacha29]

I think you have it backwards. The second mortgage and loans from relatives is how the first wave started. Now you have investment groups and bankers sinking their money into that black hole.

From a stock perspective...yes. From a contractor perspective the only entity FDX recognizes and contracts with are S-corps.... C- corps are too well capitalized and therefore have a little too much power .

 

[It will be fine]

From a stock perspective...yes. From a contractor perspective the only entity FDX recognizes and contracts with are S-corps.... C- corps are too well capitalized and therefore have a little too much power .

That is incorrect.

 

[59 Dano]

Kinda the same thing with Ground and Express.

You aren't so smart today are you?
It took awhile but it sought you out.

FedEx Express is in the process or moving freight to ground, ground is in the process of imploding.

The claims (and numerous others) were being made as early as 2009, if not sooner. None of it has happened either when, how, or to the degree they said it would. If you want to take a victory lap because, after over a decade, something vaguely similar has happened, go for it. Take two if you'd like. Some folks say Aaron Rodgers (13-3, 37:4 TD:INT, MVP) had a bad year because he didn't make it to the SB. To each his own.

 

[Mutineer]

No it's not porn to me but rather what is happening to a lot of good people shouldn't have been allowed to happen to them.

So what are you waaaaing about? You don't have any control over the situation.

If the misery of XG contractors isn't schadenfreude for you, then you have a very curious way of expressing your empathy to "a lot of good people."