Question to current contractors: do these numbers look right?

Cflfdx

Member
Got a couple of route infos from sellers in GA and TN. Do these numbers look right based on a 1mil gross?

From what I read online and my noobie knowledge, labor is in line at around 45%, could definitely be lower. Truck repair/main should be a lot higher at 11-12%.

Please advise on any inflated/deflated/missing/alarming things that you see. Thanks for your time.

Driver mgr payroll: 468k
Employer matching tax: 30k
Vehicle payments: 47k
Insurance inc workers comp: 40k
Fuel: 109k
Repair/maintenance: 71k
Uniform: 1k
Scanners: 8k
Vehicle registration: 2k
Accounting: 7k

Peak expenses:
Drivers pay: 11k
Training: 2k
Tax: 800
Truck rental: 5500
Scanners: 500
Fuel: 3k
Uniform: 1k
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
Prepare yourself for eight lectures that center around "the model relies on cheap labor that is hard to find."
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
Got a couple of route infos from sellers in GA and TN. Do these numbers look right based on a 1mil gross?

From what I read online and my noobie knowledge, labor is in line at around 45%, could definitely be lower. Truck repair/main should be a lot higher at 11-12%.

Please advise on any inflated/deflated/missing/alarming things that you see. Thanks for your time.

Driver mgr payroll: 468k
Employer matching tax: 30k
Vehicle payments: 47k
Insurance inc workers comp: 40k
Fuel: 109k
Repair/maintenance: 71k
Uniform: 1k
Scanners: 8k
Vehicle registration: 2k
Accounting: 7k

Peak expenses:
Drivers pay: 11k
Training: 2k
Tax: 800
Truck rental: 5500
Scanners: 500
Fuel: 3k
Uniform: 1k
How many daily routes? Miles? Number of trucks? Age of the fleet?

Peak numbers look strange, not much payroll for that truck rental amount. I don’t typically break out peak numbers though, I don’t hire extra help. $1k for uniforms all year and another $1k just for peak? That’s weird.
 

Cflfdx

Member
Prepare yourself for eight lectures that center around "the model relies on cheap labor that is hard to find."

Unfortunately, I have been in retail all of my life so I know what leading men and women for low wages is all about. Definitely challenging but it can be done. Believe it or not, showing genuine appreciation goes a long way.
 

Cflfdx

Member
How many daily routes? Miles? Number of trucks? Age of the fleet?

Peak numbers look strange, not much payroll for that truck rental amount. I don’t typically break out peak numbers though, I don’t hire extra help. $1k for uniforms all year and another $1k just for peak? That’s weird.

Thanks for the reply.

Annual # of stops:
Home 5800
Ground 10k

Freightliner: 1999, 1999, 2000, 2000, 2001, 2004, 2008
Van type: 2006, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2016

Also, what is variable revenue and fixed/other revenue? They have it at 75v and 25f/o

Thanks.
 

Mutineer

Well-Known Member
Um, the expenses exceed the gross. Which would explain no mention of federal or state taxes.
Those books are cooked. Ask to see the "real" books. Or, ask him politely to be candid.

There are expenses that are being thrown in (drugs, hookers, gambling, a Ferrari, personal) that simply do not belong. I used to do the same thing. Everybody does it.

This person lays awake at night fearing an audit. This is not to say that the routes don't turn profit. It's just those numbers simply aren't really "real".
 

Cflfdx

Member
Um, the expenses exceed the gross. Which would explain no mention of federal or state taxes.
Those books are cooked. Ask to see the "real" books. Or, ask him politely to be candid.

There are expenses that are being thrown in (drugs, hookers, gambling, a Ferrari, personal) that simply do not belong. I used to do the same thing. Everybody does it.

This person lays awake at night fearing an audit. This is not to say that the routes don't turn profit. It's just those numbers simply aren't really "real".

Not sure what you mean expenses exceed gross. I got around 810k for expenses, does a bit over 1mil gross, so around 200k net before taxes.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, I have been in retail all of my life so I know what leading men and women for low wages is all about. Definitely challenging but it can be done. Believe it or not, showing genuine appreciation goes a long way.
Ok, so you were in retail. But remember, you're inside all the time in out of the weather often in a temperature controlled environment. But, the cheap labor you're relying on has to be counted on to go out there ever day in all kinds of weather and for all intents and purposes match the production of that $40 and hour full company benefits UPS driver.

And so what are you going to pay your drivers? $12 an hour all straight time no OT zero benefits Then you better move that 2K for training up .....a lot. Why? Because you're going to have 3 guys on every truck. One coming, one driving and one leaving. Why? Because they're not going to go out there in that blistering southern summer heat and torrential downpours and incur the physical beating that job inflicts for fast food wages and no benefits. You might find them but the turnover will be so bad that it more than anything else could be your undoing.
 

Cflfdx

Member
Ok, so you were in retail. But remember, you're inside all the time in out of the weather often in a temperature controlled environment. But, the cheap labor you're relying on has to be counted on to go out there ever day in all kinds of weather and for all intents and purposes match the production of that $40 and hour full company benefits UPS driver.

And so what are you going to pay your drivers? $12 an hour all straight time no OT zero benefits Then you better move that 2K for training up .....a lot. Why? Because you're going to have 3 guys on every truck. One coming, one driving and one leaving. Why? Because they're not going to go out there in that blistering southern summer heat and torrential downpours and incur the physical beating that job inflicts for fast food wages and no benefits. You might find them but the turnover will be so bad that it more than anything else could be your undoing.

I hear you and that's very real. But honestly in FL $15/hr is a very livable wage and I would be paying all of my employees a salary @ 36k as that is min an employee has to make for them to be classified as salary employees and not make ot after 40hrs. Went into effect as of today. Fast food restaurant owners esp those big franchisees have been *ting their pants over this for the last yr or so.

So like $14 x 50hrs/wk x 52wks = $36400

Could you tell me what the diff is between variable and fixed/other income? That kind of has me worried if it's what I think it is.
 

Operational needs

Virescit Vulnere Virtus
I hear you and that's very real. But honestly in FL $15/hr is a very livable wage and I would be paying all of my employees a salary @ 36k as that is min an employee has to make for them to be classified as salary employees and not make ot after 40hrs. Went into effect as of today. Fast food restaurant owners esp those big franchisees have been :censored2:ting their pants over this for the last yr or so.

So like $14 x 50hrs/wk x 52wks = $36400

Could you tell me what the diff is between variable and fixed/other income? That kind of has me worried if it's what I think it is.
No way could I live on $15 an hour where I live in FL.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
I hear you and that's very real. But honestly in FL $15/hr is a very livable wage and I would be paying all of my employees a salary @ 36k as that is min an employee has to make for them to be classified as salary employees and not make ot after 40hrs. Went into effect as of today. Fast food restaurant owners esp those big franchisees have been :censored2:ting their pants over this for the last yr or so.

So like $14 x 50hrs/wk x 52wks = $36400

Could you tell me what the diff is between variable and fixed/other income? That kind of has me worried if it's what I think it is.
What i can tell you is this. Under the FLSA operators of trucks under 10K GVW are to be paid overtime after 40 hours of work. Watch out for that. Another issue is hours . I seriously doubt that 5-10 50 hour number. Many contractor employed drivers are working 5-12's and 10 on Saturday just to try to survive especially if the are paying for their own health insurance and many are doing so at the direct order of their employer due primarily to the fact that every FXG terminal nationwide is running 6 days a week a number of them are doing 7 and 7 will be nationwide sometime in 2021.

You see you're assuming too much Worst of those assumptions is that everyday there will always be somebody walking through that door physically able and psychologically willing to go out there and generate top of the scale performance for bottom of the scale money and do it on a continuous daily basis for an extended period of time. Your appreciation won't pay for their kids braces or his wife's hysterectomy.

Another factor to consider. You employees will be under Taft Hartley/NLRA which means that they can vote to go union on a local by local basis. And don't just assume that it cannot happen. if it were to happen then XG will cancel your contract out right. Another factor to consider . Everyday in this country an average of 10,000 boomers go marching off to retirement . That's 10,000 a day everyday for at least the next decade which in turn opens up a lot of jobs that will be better than what you have to offer.

So go ahead. Put your house your retirement every cent of money you've got as collateral to buy a contract. But, as many contractors come to experience....you'll run out of manpower long before you run out of boxes......and that's when the feces will hit the fan.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply.

Annual # of stops:
Home 5800
Ground 10k

Freightliner: 1999, 1999, 2000, 2000, 2001, 2004, 2008
Van type: 2006, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2016

Also, what is variable revenue and fixed/other revenue? They have it at 75v and 25f/o

Thanks.
The freightliners are getting old. They’ll run forever but maintenance will get high depending on the mileage they run. Is he transitioning the fleet to smaller vans? Try to find out the timetable for any large package facilities being built in your area. That may have a big impact on the fleet mixture you’ll want.

Variable vs fixed is how the contract charges are paid. They’ll give you a fixed amount every week and the rest is variable by stops and pieces. 75/25 is the lowest variable I accept. Growth is very high around here so I push for the most variable I can to help keep up. Try to get his last few years of stop growth and FedEx engineering should be able to get their projected growth rate for the next year.
 

dezguy

Well-Known Member
Got a couple of route infos from sellers in GA and TN. Do these numbers look right based on a 1mil gross?

From what I read online and my noobie knowledge, labor is in line at around 45%, could definitely be lower. Truck repair/main should be a lot higher at 11-12%.

Please advise on any inflated/deflated/missing/alarming things that you see. Thanks for your time.

Driver mgr payroll: 468k
Employer matching tax: 30k
Vehicle payments: 47k
Insurance inc workers comp: 40k
Fuel: 109k
Repair/maintenance: 71k
Uniform: 1k
Scanners: 8k
Vehicle registration: 2k
Accounting: 7k

Peak expenses:
Drivers pay: 11k
Training: 2k
Tax: 800
Truck rental: 5500
Scanners: 500
Fuel: 3k
Uniform: 1k

Unfortunately, I have been in retail all of my life so I know what leading men and women for low wages is all about. Definitely challenging but it can be done. Believe it or not, showing genuine appreciation goes a long way.

Quelled suprise. Another route owner whos plan is to pay slave wages.

As long as you're doing well, that's all that matters, right? Maybe it's just me but I've never been anywhere in a developed country where $15 an hour is a livable wage.
 

Cflfdx

Member
Quelled suprise. Another route owner whos plan is to pay slave wages.

As long as you're doing well, that's all that matters, right? Maybe it's just me but I've never been anywhere in a developed country where $15 an hour is a livable wage.

When has $15/hr become slave wages? What is a livable wage? 36k/yr for a single man, or 72k for a couple seems like a livable wage in the South to me.

If you want ups wages then go work at ups. It's like ppl whining about mcd paying $8.50/hr, well get your sh1t together, go across the street and be a waitress so u can make double that. But no applebees all that work for $16/hr I'll never do that right? Ur the type that'll sit there and whine all day about how mcd should be forced to increase their wages by the gubment instead of getting your level/education up.

As long as you have that i want more pay, less work mindset, youll always be an employee.
 

dezguy

Well-Known Member
When has $15/hr become slave wages? What is a livable wage? 36k/yr for a single man, or 72k for a couple seems like a livable wage in the South to me.

If you want ups wages then go work at ups. It's like ppl whining about mcd paying $8.50/hr, well get your sh1t together, go across the street and be a waitress so u can make double that. But no applebees all that work for $16/hr I'll never do that right? Ur the type that'll sit there and whine all day about how mcd should be forced to increase their wages by the gubment instead of getting your level/education up.

As long as you have that i want more pay, less work mindset, youll always be an employee.
Bud, I'm not working at Applebee's or McDonald's, I already make a decent wage and have an education.

I take issue with mainly your first comment; labour is in like at 45%, could definitely be lower. What that reads to me is you don't care about the people you plan on hiring. You'll pay them * wages, profit and be comfortable off of them busting their ass for what you consider a "liveable wage".

When is the last time you lived off the "liveable wage" of $15/hour? Because I can tell you with certainty, that is not a livable wage where I am from. You even had a response from someone who lives in Florida saying $15/hour is not a livable wage.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
When has $15/hr become slave wages? What is a livable wage? 36k/yr for a single man, or 72k for a couple seems like a livable wage in the South to me.

If you want ups wages then go work at ups. It's like ppl whining about mcd paying $8.50/hr, well get your sh1t together, go across the street and be a waitress so u can make double that. But no applebees all that work for $16/hr I'll never do that right? Ur the type that'll sit there and whine all day about how mcd should be forced to increase their wages by the gubment instead of getting your level/education up.

As long as you have that i want more pay, less work mindset, youll always be an employee.
Right there. Your attitude. That alone is what will be your undoing. You'll expect people to be willing to go out there everyday in all kinds of weather with a completely unjust and impossible size load of crates to lug and number of stops to make, in the presence of a increasingly hostile workplace environment , an increasingly agitated public, be willing to be subjected to strict discipline and abuse coming from both you and X and yes they will be subjected to the same discipline X subjects their own employees to .......and do all this for less than half the wages of their counterparts at the other major carriers and zero benefits.

People catch on very quickly to a situation whereby the disparity between the value that their Simon Legree employer demands and the value he's offering in return is simply too big. In addition you will not be doing anything X can't do themselves except for the only two reasons for which you will exist. To provide X with trucks and drivers at wages image conscious X is too embarrassed to pay their own people and to serve as a firewall against the establishment of a union represented work force.

If you are still convinced that you will prosper in the midst of these circumstances... be my guest. If you still believe that all you have to do is to get a bunch of these routes then just sit back in your air conditioned office and count up the money......here's to you.....But, just to be on the safe side, keep a set of uniforms for yourself. Why? Because finding yourself walking into the terminal and seeing one and sometimes more than one of your trucks stuffed floor to ceiling, end to end still sitting there at 11 AM is something that will happen far more times than you imagined.... and no one to drive it....but you.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
Right there. Your attitude. That alone is what will be your undoing. You'll expect people to be willing to go out there everyday in all kinds of weather with a completely unjust and impossible size load of crates to lug and number of stops to make, in the presence of a increasingly hostile workplace environment , an increasingly agitated public, be willing to be subjected to strict discipline and abuse coming from both you and X and yes they will be subjected to the same discipline X subjects their own employees to .......and do all this for less than half the wages of their counterparts at the other major carriers and zero benefits.

People catch on very quickly to a situation whereby the disparity between the value that their Simon Legree employer demands and the value he's offering in return is simply too big. In addition you will not be doing anything X can't do themselves except for the only two reasons for which you will exist. To provide X with trucks and drivers at wages image conscious X is too embarrassed to pay their own people and to serve as a firewall against the establishment of a union represented work force.

If you are still convinced that you will prosper in the midst of these circumstances... be my guest. If you still believe that all you have to do is to get a bunch of these routes then just sit back in your air conditioned office and count up the money......here's to you.....But, just to be on the safe side, keep a set of uniforms for yourself. Why? Because finding yourself walking into the terminal and seeing one and sometimes more than one of your trucks stuffed floor to ceiling, end to end still sitting there at 11 AM is something that will happen far more times than you imagined.... and no one to drive it....but you.
Says the man that is currently sitting back collecting checks from the hard work of others. Lol
 
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