Should It Come As A Surprise?

[It will be fine]

Same thing that happened after 2013 peak.

Think expectations have changed a bit in the last decade?

 

[bacha29]

I don’t know. I don’t remember this level of discontent and all out rage in contractors in 2013 especially not leading up to peak.

Until the last year, I always made money. In 2020 I made really good money and it seems like the company simply couldn’t stand that fact.

Too many contractors were making out better than Fat Freddy felt they were deserving of made even worse by their public display of affluence and prosperity. Fat Freddy saw it resented it and set out to set them straight.

And their decision to make contractors turn over their records served no other purpose than to confirm their suspicions.

 

[bacha29]

I think you underestimate how disastrous open contracts can be. One mid sized contractor walking out can cripple a building for months. One large contractor that covers a good chunk of a city would take years to recover. The buildings can’t staff to handle normal volume right now. Having it build up for days or weeks is not easy to recover from.

It might be an encumbrance or even a temporary inconvenience but are they going to shut down the building because one contractor in that building went below the Mendoza Line? Not on your life. And the adoption of a completely undeserved sense of self importance is often the primary reason for a contractor's demise. Because contrary to their long standing belief the place can and does run without them.... and rather well at that.

 

[It will be fine]

It might be an encumbrance or even a temporary inconvenience but are they going to shut down the building because one contractor in that building went below the Mendoza Line? Not on your life. And the adoption of a completely undeserved sense of self importance is often the primary reason for a contractor's demise. Because contrary to their long standing belief the place can and does run without them.... and rather well at that.

Your ability to be so consistently wrong is truly remarkable.

 

[bacha29]

Your ability to be so consistently wrong is truly remarkable.

We'll see but whether you want to confront it or not as long as Fat Freddy's DOT numbers and not yours is on the side of your truck....he's the rancher...you're just the cattle.

 

[bbsam]

It might be an encumbrance or even a temporary inconvenience but are they going to shut down the building because one contractor in that building went below the Mendoza Line? Not on your life. And the adoption of a completely undeserved sense of self importance is often the primary reason for a contractor's demise. Because contrary to their long standing belief the place can and does run without them.... and rather well at that.

Actually they don’t. The idea that they can throw anybody in that role has been absolutely shredded. And no. They won’t shut down. They will fail miserably, overpay in contingency and eventually come around to valuable contracts again. They will likely waste billions getting there. That’s their prerogative.

 

[bbsam]

We'll see but whether you want to confront it or not as long as Fat Freddy's DOT numbers and not yours is on the side of your truck....he's the rancher...you're just the cattle.

Actually we’re the cowboys. And we may look to other farms in the near future.

 

[It will be fine]

We'll see but whether you want to confront it or not as long as Fat Freddy's DOT numbers and not yours is on the side of your truck....he's the rancher...you're just the cattle.

He owns the land but the cattle will die without proper care and feeding.

I ran contingency in a building 3 years ago. They’ve been calling me asking for help there again for the same towns. The bean counters can’t be happy with that waste and inefficiency. They asked me to bid on that contract when I was there the first time, I told them the money wasn’t there. I was correct since the guy that took it already walked away. It’s much easier to walk away from a contract you got for free, and that’s the case in a lot of places.

 

[MAKAVELI]

I think you underestimate how disastrous open contracts can be. One mid sized contractor walking out can cripple a building for months. One large contractor that covers a good chunk of a city would take years to recover. The buildings can’t staff to handle normal volume right now. Having it build up for days or weeks is not easy to recover from.

It sounds like by keeping Ground a contractor model and thus keeping the Teamsters out, FedEx has created a defacto Union with the contractors.

 

[bacha29]

It sounds like by keeping Ground a contractor model and thus keeping the Teamsters out, FedEx has created a defacto Union with the contractors.

There is simply no possible way contractors no matter how desperate they are can ever possibly win in a direct power struggle with Fat Freddy. It would require upwards of two thirds of all contractors nationwide to suddenly walk out and stay to for at least a month, probably longer . The Teamsters had to struggle to hold it's membership together for 2 weeks back in 1997. It's laughable to think that a bunch of contractors with no formal organization, no elected officers, no central command no binding legal obligations no pool of emergency cash contractors can draw from and it's every man for himself could even begin to launch an organized work stoppage lasting even so much as a week. And chances are it wouldn't even last that long.

They would be drawing people over from Express, Freight, Pittsburgh calling every retiree , every former contractor in a response far stronger and far better organized than anything contractors themselves could not only put together but hold together.

 

[bacha29]

He owns the land but the cattle will die without proper care and feeding.

I ran contingency in a building 3 years ago. They’ve been calling me asking for help there again for the same towns. The bean counters can’t be happy with that waste and inefficiency. They asked me to bid on that contract when I was there the first time, I told them the money wasn’t there. I was correct since the guy that took it already walked away. It’s much easier to walk away from a contract you got for free, and that’s the case in a lot of places.

When you've got too many cows especially those that keep getting out of the fence all the time, they are the first ones to go to the slaughter house. So you contractors had better stay inside the fence.

 

[MAKAVELI]

There is simply no possible way contractors no matter how desperate they are can ever possibly win in a direct power struggle with Fat Freddy. It would require upwards of two thirds of all contractors nationwide to suddenly walk out and stay to for at least a month, probably longer . The Teamsters had to struggle to hold it's membership together for 2 weeks back in 1997. It's laughable to think that a bunch of contractors with no formal organization, no elected officers, no central command no binding legal obligations no pool of emergency cash contractors can draw from and it's every man for himself could even begin to launch an organized work stoppage lasting even so much as a week. And chances are it wouldn't even last that long.

They would be drawing people over from Express, Freight, Pittsburgh calling every retiree , every former contractor in a response far stronger and far better organized than anything contractors themselves could not only put together but hold together.

They win by forcing a change. Wether that change is more $ , contracting Express, or going all employee is yet to be seen.

 

[Mutineer]

nobody wants the contract. Contractors can’t sell and you can’t give them away. Do you play tough and pretend that contractors are stuck? They have too much debt and can’t afford to leave?

I was correct since the guy that took it already walked away. It’s much easier to walk away from a contract you got for free, and that’s the case in a lot of places.

FedEx screwed themselves by allowing so many of their contractors to acquire contracts for free, and/or own worthless contracts. Contractor stops making payments on a van, and surrenders it to the leasing company. Contractor loses nothing!

One large contractor that covers a good chunk of a city would take years to recover.

That notion is not far-fetched. We've all been here: one van breaks down hard in the middle of a busy route. Your other vans do what they can to pick up the slack. That comparatively tiny disruption by it'self can take more than a few days for the contractor to catch back up!

Because contrary to their long standing belief the place can and does run without them.... and rather well at that.

Except this time, nobody's taking the bait!

t sounds like by keeping Ground a contractor model and thus keeping the Teamsters out, FedEx has created a defacto Union with the contractors.

Only if/when the day comes that Freddy and Raj tapout.

There is simply no possible way contractors no matter how desperate they are can ever possibly win in a direct power struggle with Fat Freddy.

You're right. The contractors WILL lose. And FedEx could go down with them.

 

[bbsam]

When you've got too many cows especially those that keep getting out of the fence all the time, they are the first ones to go to the slaughter house. So you contractors had better stay inside the fence.

Why would we stay inside the fence?

Again, you don’t understand the playing field. Why would I stay in a position where I lose money? Do you believe the company would overpay me by thousands or attempt to find more contingency and overpay by millions?

Do you believe me when I say that many contractors will be financially able to walk away before peak? If so, why wouldn’t they? If not, why would I make such a thing up?

And it’s not about “beating Fred and Raj”. Nobody gives a about that. It’s business. If it’s a bad contract, no reason to be in it.

 

[bbsam]

There is simply no possible way contractors no matter how desperate they are can ever possibly win in a direct power struggle with Fat Freddy. It would require upwards of two thirds of all contractors nationwide to suddenly walk out and stay to for at least a month, probably longer . The Teamsters had to struggle to hold it's membership together for 2 weeks back in 1997. It's laughable to think that a bunch of contractors with no formal organization, no elected officers, no central command no binding legal obligations no pool of emergency cash contractors can draw from and it's every man for himself could even begin to launch an organized work stoppage lasting even so much as a week. And chances are it wouldn't even last that long.

They would be drawing people over from Express, Freight, Pittsburgh calling every retiree , every former contractor in a response far stronger and far better organized than anything contractors themselves could not only put together but hold together.

You seem to be caught in a “winning/losing” mindset. It’s true. FedEx holds all control. It’s their ball, their field, their rules.

But as War Games taught us…

 

[Serf]

All good points. I for one am skeptical about a merge or Union. Because as good as it could be on paper, I feel like the down side would be getting put in a 900 Grumman with 210 stops a day. Not getting home until 7:30 or later, etc. 40$ or whatever….

 

[yadig]

All good points. I for one am skeptical about a merge or Union. Because as good as it could be on paper, I feel like the down side would be getting put in a 900 Grumman with 210 stops a day. Not getting home until 7:30 or later, etc. 40$ or whatever….

I guess a 30 yr top out plan, no pension, horrible insurance sounds better.

 

[Serf]

I guess a 30 yr top out plan, no pension, horrible insurance sounds better.

A 401k, portable pension, catastrophic care insurance and dinner at 1800 sharp is better for me.

 

[zeev]

The thought that Express will continue to offer the same compensation with no union pressure and an activist shareholder also having a low cost delivery system next door is wishful thinking. Trucking companies loved the contractor model the problem is with the shortage of drivers it became not workable, the result was that large retailers like Wal-Mart and Costco have become trucking companies and go aggressively after the limited drivers out there.

 

[floridays]

OK, here goes: it makes no sense to pay more for something than it is worth.

In this day of hourly rate +premium, is the worth of an employees work their payrate or payrate plus the premium?

It seems they must be paying more than what they think the work is worth, is that a correct statement?

I was under the impression that wages, in abscence of a collective bargaining agreement, were a function of supply and demand.

If that is a correct assumption is Fedex's intent to strip the premium pay if and when the demand for labor shifts to a position more suitable to them?