Sitting Arbitrator

[705red]

Yesterday was another panel date, and we had 4 more terminations to be heard.

First case was an employee who was sent for a reasonable cause testing and falsified his employment application 8 years ago. Reinstated by arbitrator

Second case was an employee who was fired for dishonesty. He was coming back from break late. His grievance was upheld by the arbitrator but not for coming back from break late, his overall record at ups. This employee could have possibly been the worst employee ever!

Third case was a driver who was fried for not reporting an accident immediately! He scratched his truck on a Friday night and could not find a sup to report it to. He reported it Monday morning first thing. Reinstated 1 day suspension and 33 days of back pay by arbitrator

Fourth case was my guy, fired twice for stealing the same cell phone. Reinstated by arbitrator

That's two months now and 7 employees are back to work that would have been out pending an arbitration for over a year.

 

[trickpony1]

705Red-
You must belong to a different Teamsters Union than I do.
The union in my area (which would include the panels) couldn't find their rear with both hands. You may remember the case I am refering to.
I would think the cases you mention would set a precedent for future cases but then......
I am thinking I may be better off stepping out of the union and spending my weekly union dues on Powerball tickets.....at least I would have a chance of winning.

Congrats on your efforts and achievements, I am saddened that you may be a breed that isn't long for the labor movement.

 

[705red]

705Red-
You must belong to a different Teamsters Union than I do.
The union in my area (which would include the panels) couldn't find their rear with both hands. You may remember the case I am refering to.
I would think the cases you mention would set a precedent for future cases but then......
I am thinking I may be better off stepping out of the union and spending my weekly union dues on Powerball tickets.....at least I would have a chance of winning.

Congrats on your efforts and achievements, I am saddened that you may be a breed that isn't long for the labor movement.

No sir! Believe it or not people like you and myself and others that are sick of seeing business as usual will make a difference in the next election!

We have a great tool here the internet and this website to address issues and concerns. And if we band together and use it properly we can make a difference. If 200 of us talk to 100 people a piece and have them vote for a candidate that we endorse that's 20,000 votes. Just imagine the possibilities?!

Please stay a current dues paying member so you will have that right in the next election!

 

[dilligaf]

Ya win some, ya lose some Red. Good job on the wins!

 

[705red]

Dill, you are right! The reason i started this was to keep track of how the sitting arbitrator works. If you remember i and my local have been slammed by every management poster on here for being rebels, for bringing everything to panel.

We do not bring everything to panel! We bring what we believe are contract violations, plain and simple! We do uphold contract discipline cases at the lower level.

The 7 and 1 records proves that. Just wanted to silence the management posters on their slams against this great local.

I guess the question should be, who's really being unrealistic here by bringing bs grievances to panel? HMMMMM

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Yesterday was another panel date, and we had 4 more terminations to be heard.

First case was an employee who was sent for a reasonable cause testing and falsified his employment application 8 years ago. Reinstated by arbitrator

Second case was an employee who was fired for dishonesty. He was coming back from break late. His grievance was upheld by the arbitrator but not for coming back from break late, his overall record at ups. This employee could have possibly been the worst employee ever!

Third case was a driver who was fried for not reporting an accident immediately! He scratched his truck on a Friday night and could not find a sup to report it to. He reported it Monday morning first thing. Reinstated 1 day suspension and 33 days of back pay by arbitrator

Fourth case was my guy, fired twice for stealing the same cell phone. Reinstated by arbitrator

That's two months now and 7 employees are back to work that would have been out pending an arbitration for over a year.

Interesting bunch there. I think that three of the four should have lost their jobs for good. The guy that didn't report the scratch could have called someone. I am pretty sure there was someone in his cell phone directory that had a phone number of a supervisor. Stealing and dishonesty should always warrant the loss of a job and for good. Dishonesty is harder to prove but anytime someone is caught red handed then that should be all she wrote. I'm all for people getting their jobs back if wrongfully fired but for people like this to still be employed is ridiculous. And people wonder why unions are getting such a bad reputation. I wish this would stop. I don't want my dues going towards defending these guys.

 

[705red]

Interesting bunch there. I think that three of the four should have lost their jobs for good. The guy that didn't report the scratch could have called someone. I am pretty sure there was someone in his cell phone directory that had a phone number of a supervisor. Stealing and dishonesty should always warrant the loss of a job and for good. Dishonesty is harder to prove but anytime someone is caught red handed then that should be all she wrote. I'm all for people getting their jobs back if wrongfully fired but for people like this to still be employed is ridiculous. And people wonder why unions are getting such a bad reputation. I wish this would stop. I don't want my dues going towards defending these guys.

So if ups accuses you of theft the union should uphold the termination?

If the sups where in the building that night when he got back he would have reported it. But he did report it the next morning, and still to this day it has not cost ups 1 dime!

The first case i will not get in to because of the legal authorities that were involved. This site would be shut down for discussing the details of that case for sure.

The contract is clear, yet you jump on the union for upholding it? Its confusing a little!

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

So if ups accuses you of theft the union should uphold the termination?

Like I said....if caught red handed? Yes. Definately. I never said without representation. However....if caught red handed then I don't see the point in the case having to go any further than locally.

If the sups where in the building that night when he got back he would have reported it. But he did report it the next morning, and still to this day it has not cost ups 1 dime!

I agree but odds are there is someone he knows that could have gotten him in touch with a sup that works in his building whether they were actually in the building or not. Any sup.

The first case i will not get in to because of the legal authorities that were involved. This site would be shut down for discussing the details of that case for sure.

Falsifying is dishonesty regardless of the other details you can't mention here. My only question would be as to long it's been since the employee lied on the application. Eight years back is a long way to go to fire someone. But in the end he/she did lie.

The contract is clear, yet you jump on the union for upholding it? Its confusing a little!

Yes, the contract is clear and that is exactly why I take issue with people that were caught red handed committing cardinal sins getting their jobs back. We should have to uphold the contract just like we expect management to do the same. It's not in any way an anti-union rant. I am not anti-union. In fact, I'm quite the opposite. I just hate seeing people get away with things they shouldn't have been doing. What I hate just as much though, if not more, is when people get accused of things they didn't do. Those are the people that UPS should be fighting for. Anyone else should be shown the door and it should be done locally. That frees up plenty of time and money for legit cases. So, I hope this clears things up a bit. I just want you to understand that I think everyone should be held accountable for their actions. Not just managemet.

 

[705red]

Like I said....if caught red handed? Yes. Definately. I never said without representation. However....if caught red handed then I don't see the point in the case having to go any further than locally.

Never caught red handed! No proof and an employee can not be disciplined twice for the same charge! Do not hate the union because the company messed up! The company could have put him back to work in sept with no discipline and waited for the court case to finish.

I agree but odds are there is someone he knows that could have gotten him in touch with a sup that works in his building whether they were actually in the building or not. Any sup.

It was minor, and no one ever called in a complaint! He did report it, he can not be fired for unreported accident. That is the cardinal sin. Article 18 states immediately which would fall under progressive discipline.


Falsifying is dishonesty regardless of the other details you can't mention here. My only question would be as to long it's been since the employee lied on the application. Eight years back is a long way to go to fire someone. But in the end he/she did lie.

He was hired part time, promoted in to management, took a full time driving job. Never did ups catch it then! He was denied a steward during an investigation by a government agency! Which then lead to discipline!
Anything said is not admissible!



Yes, the contract is clear and that is exactly why I take issue with people that were caught red handed committing cardinal sins getting their jobs back. We should have to uphold the contract just like we expect management to do the same. It's not in any way an anti-union rant. I am not anti-union. In fact, I'm quite the opposite. I just hate seeing people get away with things they shouldn't have been doing. What I hate just as much though, if not more, is when people get accused of things they didn't do. Those are the people that UPS should be fighting for. Anyone else should be shown the door and it should be done locally. That frees up plenty of time and money for legit cases. So, I hope this clears things up a bit. I just want you to understand that I think everyone should be held accountable for their actions. Not just managemet.

And i agree, i only wish i could go more in to the one story. I have been at a lot of recent panels lately and in every case after management has opened and presented its case, i say to myself why is this here!

Only then to hear the union put on its case and say the exact same thing, why is this here. Its amazing how the same case can be spun two different ways.

I can see why you and others get upset, but just because ups or any other company says you are guilty, does not mean you are!

Sometimes people need a break, everyone here has made a mistake or two through their career, but it seems like ups just wants to fire people for those same mistakes.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

And i agree, i only wish i could go more in to the one story. I have been at a lot of recent panels lately and in every case after management has opened and presented its case, i say to myself why is this here!

Only then to hear the union put on its case and say the exact same thing, why is this here. Its amazing how the same case can be spun two different ways.

I can see why you and others get upset, but just because ups or any other company says you are guilty, does not mean you are!

Sometimes people need a break, everyone here has made a mistake or two through their career, but it seems like ups just wants to fire people for those same mistakes.

Like I said....if someone is caught red handed committing one of the cardinal sins then they should be gone and gone for good. If there is no proof of an employee committing one of those then I agree that they shouldn't be fired. I don't know why you keep making it sound like I am slamming the door on the ones that are getting screwed when I've made it clear that I am only talking about cases where people have been fired for cardinal sins and were caught red handed. I'm am not talking about people that that are falsely accused.

I also think that some people should be shown the door that are repeat offenders for non-cardinal sin infractions. An good example could be that "worse employee" you mentioned. Progressive discipline could work too. I don't hate the union. I just hate some of their actions. We've had thieves (that were caught red handed) get better defense than drivers that were fired for getting rear ended. That is just wrong.

 

[screamin chicken]

This past Thursday was the first time that we had a fifth man (arbitrator) sitting at our discipline hearings. We had three cases that we heard.

The first case was a 32 year employee who was fired for dishonesty. The company accused him of stealing time, 2minutes hear 2 minutes there. This case was the first that was heard and took 2 and a half hours to be presented. The case was deadlocked by the panel and the arb broke the tie.
Grievant was put back to work!

Second case was a tug driver at O'Hara who hit a pothole and broke the windshield and blew out a tire. He reported the damage and was fired for not reporting an accident. Again the panel was deadlocked and the arb broke the tie.
Greivant was put back to work!

Third case was an air driver that slid on snow/ice in to an intersection and was involved in a serious accident. She was fired for gross negligence. Again the panel was deadlocked and the arb broke the tie.
Grievant was put back to work!

I encourage all locals to get this sitting arbitrator in their language! All three of these employees would have been out at least 18 months waiting on arbitration!

My case was not so lucky, when I was a preloader I topped out at 12.31 hr., my first day in my 30 day ride I was dropped down to 11.03 hr. I got a pay roll history dated in 03 and finally my union came back with theres noting we can do.

 

[mnnice]

Yesterday was another panel date, and we had 4 more terminations to be heard.

First case was an employee who was sent for a reasonable cause testing and falsified his employment application 8 years ago. Reinstated by arbitrator

Second case was an employee who was fired for dishonesty. He was coming back from break late. His grievance was upheld by the arbitrator but not for coming back from break late, his overall record at ups. This employee could have possibly been the worst employee ever!

Third case was a driver who was fried for not reporting an accident immediately! He scratched his truck on a Friday night and could not find a sup to report it to. He reported it Monday morning first thing. Reinstated 1 day suspension and 33 days of back pay by arbitrator

Fourth case was my guy, fired twice for stealing the same cell phone. Reinstated by arbitrator

That's two months now and 7 employees are back to work that would have been out pending an arbitration for over a year.

How can we allow a person the right to steal a cell phone twice and still be an employee at UPS? If you feel good about this, there is a true problem with the union supporting a person that steals. What did you truly win here? The right for the person to steal the same cell phone a third time so we can deal with it again.

 

[Jones]

How can we allow a person the right to steal a cell phone twice and still be an employee at UPS? If you feel good about this, there is a true problem with the union supporting a person that steals. What did you truly win here? The right for the person to steal the same cell phone a third time so we can deal with it again.

Just because UPS fired him for the stealing the cell phone doesn't mean he really did steal a phone. If the company had been able to prove that he really was a thief, he would not have been re-instated.

 

[705red]

How can we allow a person the right to steal a cell phone twice and still be an employee at UPS? If you feel good about this, there is a true problem with the union supporting a person that steals. What did you truly win here? The right for the person to steal the same cell phone a third time so we can deal with it again.

You have to be in management! You believe everything that they tell you! He was fired twice for stealing the same phone without any proof!

He was suspended and returned to work by a panel of ups and union reps! He was again terminated for the same phone! You can not discipline an employee twice for the same infraction!

If ups wanted to wait fro the courts to play out, they should have put him back to work with all back pay, not disciplining him for it last year!

If ups had proof that he stole it we would not be talking about this, but they didnt! And yes i feel great about getting him his job back!!!!!

 

[mnnice]

You have to be in management! You believe everything that they tell you! He was fired twice for stealing the same phone without any proof!

He was suspended and returned to work by a panel of ups and union reps! He was again terminated for the same phone! You can not discipline an employee twice for the same infraction!

If ups wanted to wait fro the courts to play out, they should have put him back to work with all back pay, not disciplining him for it last year!

If ups had proof that he stole it we would not be talking about this, but they didnt! And yes i feel great about getting him his job back!!!!!

I suppose we will be reading your report in a month telling us that this same employee stole the same cell phone again and got his job back. If he didn't learn his lesson the first time when he was suspended and tried it again, what does that tell you about the character of this person?

 

[brownman15]

I suppose we will be reading your report in a month telling us that this same employee stole the same cell phone again and got his job back. If he didn't learn his lesson the first time when he was suspended and tried it again, what does that tell you about the character of this person?

do you know this person. if not u cannot make any judgments on his character.

 

[705red]

I suppose we will be reading your report in a month telling us that this same employee stole the same cell phone again and got his job back. If he didn't learn his lesson the first time when he was suspended and tried it again, what does that tell you about the character of this person?

Am i typing to fast for you?

HE WAS NEVER CAUGHT STEALING THE PHONE, THE 1ST TIME OR THIS LAST TIME!

HE WAS FIRED TWICE OVER THE SAME PHONE!

WOULD IT HELP IF I SPELLED IT OUT IN ANOTHER LANGUAGE FOR YOU?

 

[UPSNewbie]

How can we allow a person the right to steal a cell phone twice and still be an employee at UPS? If you feel good about this, there is a true problem with the union supporting a person that steals. What did you truly win here? The right for the person to steal the same cell phone a third time so we can deal with it again.

I suppose we will be reading your report in a month telling us that this same employee stole the same cell phone again and got his job back. If he didn't learn his lesson the first time when he was suspended and tried it again, what does that tell you about the character of this person?

Have you ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty"?

It's not "innocent OR guilty in the public eye." There has to be facts to prove that he stole it. Whether he did steal it or not, the accuser did not provide facts to back up their accusation. At the bare minimum, that's what Red was defending--UPS accusing out of convenient timing. We don't know this person. It's not up to us to be the judge. We aren't--at least shouldn't be--in the court of public opinion.

And from my understanding, he didn't "steal it twice." He had a phone in his possession, disciplined. Discipline waived, and being right no matter what, UPS disciplined again.

 

[705red]

For the second time this year we had NO terminations at panel this month. Two out of four months so far. This sitting arbitrator is worth every penny!

 

[thelus]

For the second time this year we had NO terminations at panel this month. Two out of four months so far. This sitting arbitrator is worth every penny!

yup we now joke about this now here at addison. we call unjust disciplin delayed payed vactions now.