TERMINATED: Walking across a stopped belt!!

herbigharo32

Well-Known Member
It seems UPS likes to hang me by my neck at every turn. Even if a belt is off, I go around regardless as to rather it is secured or not. Yes, even when a belt is secured, there is always that possibility of it getting turned on. The only exception is a supervisor secures the belt and gaurds the reset switch until across.
 
This is another example of "Do as I say not as I do". We have supes jumping across running belts, running up belts to get leakers,etc. Safety is only a concern when it is convenient and timely. I pray you get your job back. Just remember that if you do, don't give them any reason to say you are not following proper methods because apparently someone has it out for you.

Well said!! They'll keep insisting that safety is the most important thing but they dont fool me.
 
Congrats!!!... If I were you I'd take it a little further and try to get compensated for the 4 days. They had no business disciplining you for that. I wouldnt even sign a warning letter for such a minor offense. Talk to your safety committee and ask them to clarify the rules of conveyor securing so there is no confusion among other employees. You should be paid in full for the time they stole from you!!
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Everyone runs around on unsecured belts here... most of the time they're moving.


Does it make it right just because "everyone is doing it?"

My son was asking permission to do something because "all his buddies were doing it". I asked him, "If they were all jumping off a bridge, would you want to do that to?"
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
My son was asking permission to do something because "all his buddies were doing it". I asked him, "If they were all jumping off a bridge, would you want to do that to?"

If you are going to pass on cliches, I think it is a "cliff" not a "bridge". :wink2:

or maybe "cliff" is a Southern thing.
 

komokazi

Member
komokazi, as in Perry Comokazi?



Negative. It was just a play on the spelling of kamikaze for an old team I played for in the game BF1942 about 4-5 years ago.

Does it make it right just because "everyone is doing it?"

My son was asking permission to do something because "all his buddies were doing it". I asked him, "If they were all jumping off a bridge, would you want to do that to?"

I never said anything about it being right, I simply stated that everyone does it regardless. I don't do it because I am aware of the safety hazard of doing such and that I generally don't have the time to climb on the belt. Our belt (PD-2 in Mesquite, highest volume belt in the building, and Mesquite happens to be one of UPS' largest hubs here in the US) has too much volume to play around as a pickoff, and we have too many big wigs walkin around that I don't care to take that unnecessary risk. If for any reason I do find myself needing to walk on the belt, I'll secure the belt, but we're pretty good on having no belt stops each day unless theres trouble in the pit.
 
M

Mike23

Guest
With a policeman, for example, if he arrests the wrong person, he can be sued for false arrest. We need a similar provision in the Contract so management is treated just like everyone else in society. That way both parties would be responsible for their actions and decisions.

[Note: I'm pro police. I don't want policemen walking on eggshells. I want them to do their job. But once in a great while, a bad apple turns up, and he needs to be sued.]

Not true. You can name every cop AND their grandmothers in a lawsuit. It's provisioned in their union contracts that not a penny comes from their own pockets. Even if the guy is a creepy sexual predator you sue him and the city police budget steps up for the bill which just means you're taking money from the tax payers, like yourself.

If you speak to many cops, after work they'll joke about how many lawsuits they have against them over a beer. Their union, you know, actually takes care of them and don't dink around with petty politic games. Why do you think they ALWAYS get paid for their suspensions if found to be right (unlike some places I can think of)?
 
M

Mike23

Guest
If you are going to pass on cliches, I think it is a "cliff" not a "bridge". :wink2:

or maybe "cliff" is a Southern thing.

Either way, it depends how high the 'cliff' or 'bridge' is. Oh, also if I'd be landing on lots of mattresses, water or marsh mellows. :D
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
The problem I have with this incident, and others like it, is when the management person is wrong, nothing happens to him. ....].

First of all, if smallsorter has been truthful in his record he will be back. There is no doubt in my mind about this. This is not a cardinal sin unless you argue that it is gross negligence and I don't think that will stick.

I am surprised at how many locations still see this practice and nothing is done to stop it. I was a hub manager and a training manager for a regional air hub during the last stages of my career. I separated two employees and two supervisors and countless others were in all stages of discipline for walking on unsecured belts.

This was not an acceptable practice for any UPS employee in my hub.

If a supervisor was caught on an unsecured belt they would probably lose their job.

JonFrum
I can not put this delicately so I apologize in advance....

It is none of your business how any employee including management is disciplined. If you have not been in the room during an investigation and disciplinary hearing for a management person do not perceive to think you know what goes on. Managers are usually much harder on their supervisors than their employees... at least I will speak from my own experience. I have witnessed and conducted many disciplinary meetings and you are way out of line.
 

JonFrum

Member
Not true. You can name every cop AND their grandmothers in a lawsuit. It's provisioned in their union contracts that not a penny comes from their own pockets. Even if the guy is a creepy sexual predator you sue him and the city police budget steps up for the bill which just means you're taking money from the tax payers, like yourself.

If you speak to many cops, after work they'll joke about how many lawsuits they have against them over a beer. Their union, you know, actually takes care of them and don't dink around with petty politic games. Why do you think they ALWAYS get paid for their suspensions if found to be right (unlike some places I can think of)?
Mike23, If a policeman is convicted of the crime of false arrest and ordered by the Court to pay money to the victim, I find it hard to believe the City will step in and pay the money.

Normally a City worker is only covered in the legitimate performance of his duties. Not while commiting crimes. It would seem wierd for the City to, in effect, absolve the policeman of criminal guilt. (The policeman is, after all, in law enforcement!!!)

And after a few quarter million dollar judgements, I would think the City would start to run out of money. Especially since the City usually gets sued as well, and owes its own judgements to the victims.
 

JonFrum

Member
UPS Lifer,

Since the jobs of managers and supervisors are not protected by a Union Contract, if they were being disciplined for their offenses, we would see a 100% turnover every week or so. Hourly employees can't help but see violations, big and small, and yet the same management personel return to their jobs day after day. Obviously they are not being fired. We don't have to be in the disciplinary meeting ( if there even was one) to know that they didn't get fired.

As to your point about discipline being none of my business. Actually the disciplinary process is part of the Contract that is voted on by myself and other Teamster members. We are all entitled to observe its workings and pass judgement thereon. Such concerted union activity is protected by Labor Law, and the subject of "discipline" is a mandatory subject of collective bargaining.

We are also entitled to evaluate whether the discipline process is fair, non-discriminatory, free of deal making, bribery, etc., to evaluate the effectiveness of our Union Representatives in the process, and to learn of the ruleings handed down.

I wonder how many people you disciplined for walking on unsecured belts during your career? I suspect almost every last instance of walking on a belt is a "victimless crime." Meaning there is no injury to anyone, and no measurable danger either. It's a "crime" largely because UPS says it's a crime. Let's face it, a person could be killed or injured walking on the sidewalk, or sitting in a chair, or sleeping in a bed, etc. But no one says that because there is a slight risk, therefor we must outlaw these and numerous other everyday activities. All activities involve a slight risk. It's unavoidable. Managers should be concentrating on truely reckless behavior. If they wrongfully fire someone for a trivial reason, they are the ones that should be disciplined.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
JonFrum,

I am not sure how long you have been with UPS but you should get involved with your safety committee. You will learn a lot and it may keep you from having an injury or accident.

Please, I challenge you to pose the question about walking on a moving belt to a senior employee who has worked in a hub or local sort or preload.... especially an employee on a safety committee!

There is one exception to the rule on moving belts. A metro gathering belt at dock level that is used to unload package cars may be the exception depending on the facility you work at.

This has nothing to do with being a "victimless crime" as you so absurdly put it. It has to do with your safety and the safety of other employees. This is absolutely reckless and unsafe behavior.

Let me put it this way.... If you blow a stop sign and the other cars stay stopped and let you go through.... I guess in your mind, this is a victimless crime. No harm no foul. Eventually, there will be a circumstance which could cause someone their life.

Same premise applies to walking on a moving belt. You could trip on a package moving by you and fall off the belt to the cement below. You could get pinned by packages when a jam happens. You could get sucked into the belt at any point. Your clothes could catch on a rough edge. I could go on and on and on!

It really confuses me that you have no real understanding of conveyor securing and lockout. Unless you are at a reload type operation that does not have moving belts ???

As for protection as a management person. I worked in California. California has some of the toughest employment laws in the country. I never felt that I was not protected. Management or non-management or for that matter union employees who say they are at risk or unprotected do not realize the resources they have at their disposal.

If you run scared you will be taken advantage of. The key is to know your rights and just go out and do the best job you can do and you will usually be OK. If you act and perform confidently your adversaries will move to another target.
 
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