TNT Deal?? & Billion Dollars?? What??

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by The Milkman, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. The Milkman

    The Milkman Well-Known Member

    Just heard the news that the UPS bid to buy TNT did not happen..It was knocked down ...Funny that UPS is willing to spend more BILLIONS for more and more Global reach BUILT on the backs of those who are currently employed and those that have retired after many years of service BUT they were nice enough to send out letters to us about raising our HEALTH CARE MONTHLY PREMIUMS....Just shows you where their hearts are...As ususal the bottom line is $$$$...More in the pockets of those in Atlanta, less in our pockets due to GREED plain and simple..Nuff said:surprised:
  2. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    .....or......they could be looking to expand the business, thereby solidifying their place as the industry leader and ensuring our continued proftability for decades to come....

    The letter was simply a negotiating scare tactic, nothing more, nothing less.
  3. Coldworld

    Coldworld Taking it all back.....

    Did you hear the part that UPS will still have to pay a couple hundred millon to tnt, even though the deal probably wont happen...I'm sure that will be mentioned during contract talks.....
  4. The Milkman

    The Milkman Well-Known Member

    I have heard that line since 81 when I started....They have been expanding ever since...A scare tactic yes....But how about taking care of those who made you the GIANT that you are today..."What Can Brown Do For You?" Exactly what the health care letter says......:knockedout:
  5. Indecisi0n

    Indecisi0n Well-Known Member

  6. Buck Fifty

    Buck Fifty New Member

    All I can say, is if you haven't figured out who you work for yet. You will soon enough. I always say prepare for the worst and expect the best.
  7. Brownslave688

    Brownslave688 You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

    Hasn't ups taught you anything!!!
    Expect the unexpected. Lol
  8. Jackburton

    Jackburton Gone Fish'n

    Funny thing is I bet more people are prepared for a zombie apocolypse then they are to be on a picket line for two weeks. Sad but true.
  9. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    Being in business is about money and growing the business.
    One would be stupid to stay forever in one place and never try to expand & grow!!
    There'll be other deals.
  10. beentheredonethat

    beentheredonethat Well-Known Member

    When is expansion and spending lots of money on it a bad thing and when is it a good thing?

    Was it good when Jim Casey expanded from Seattle to CA?
    Was it good when we got into common carrier svc?
    Was it good when we expanded into all contiguous 48 states?
    Was it good when we added NDA svc?
    Was it good when we developed tracking services, including DIAD, UPS Tracking, API tracking etc?
    Was it good when we ventured into Canada and W. Germany?
    Was it good when we spent hundreds of millions on CCHIL?
    Was it good when we spent billions on Worldport and it's expansion?

    If Jim Casey didn't expand from a messenger service he probably would have done OK and still possibly had a small company that would have earned him a decent income to support himself and the people working for him. Most likely that business, like many others would have eventually closed since there aren't many messengers out there anymore.

    The same could be true if UPS didn't go to common carrier service. Every time we expanded, it took capital and often it had short term negatives but we grew and prospered as a result.

    I think it's funny there are other threads saying how UPS should build warehouses and compete against amazon. We would be a direct competitor to one of our largest customers. Yet many people also think it's a bad idea to spend and invest money in our core competancy which is picking up and deliverying packages. Others have said DHL failed when they came to the US. I think we are foolish if we don't think they will try it again. Also, if the USPS is smart, they should be very competitive with us in the small pkg business. I can't think of many businesses that did well in the very long term if they never tried to grow beyond what they initially were.

    Also, Like I mentioned before, I get being upset about prices going up for healthcare. But as another teamster poster indicated, the contract specifically lists out what UPS will pay out, and when rates go beyond the preestablished costs, then the costs will be shared by the retiree and UPS. I pay out over 350/month for health care and antoher almost 300/month for HCSA for out of pocket health care costs which is 650/month for my family as an active mgmt employee. You've been paying for quite a few years $50/month for family + whatever out of pocket costs you have had. Why is it that when the teamsters and UPS agreed to the terms of the contract which included language about max for retiree HW you were fine with it at the time. Now that it impacts you, you think UPS isn't being fair?
    Everything in the contract has a cost associated with it. Most people think the costs are only the direct pay rate they get. The cost includes this as well. UPS can't afford to cover HW no matter how high the costs go up forever and only charge a copay of $50. That's ridiculous. Trust me, I'd much rather pay only $50 too (or nothing when I first started 25 years ago and everything was covered). But that's not realistic for any company to pay that out.
  11. IMHO trying to buy TNT was a classic exercise of buying distribution, which (as has been proven multiple times) is far cheaper than trying to establish distribution. Buying transport capacity was never an issue. What went wrong was a complete misreading of the minds and attitudes of the Eurocrats in Brussels. And what really hurts, is that that UPS still has to pay a termination fee of USD 200 mio for walking away (even though the proposed deal was put to rest by the Eurocrats in Brussels for whatever reasons). Unfortunately this will have an impact on the financial performance of UPS in 2013. Recovering from this will require what? Lowering of costs? Higher throughputs (while maintaining the same facilities and capacities and not changing one jota in the resources, or will we go to constant peak flow rates with peak staffing)? Reduction of damages as part of the lowering of costs? Increase in volume, especially in countries with a strong currencies to compensate for the relative weakness of the USD? Increase in the major development markets such as China, India, Brazil, Europe (Deutsche Bundespost/DHL is a significant participant in this market). Production improvements will have less of an impact than compared to favourable financial market conditions.
    IMHO, UPS has to change/adjust the envelope of operational conditions in order to reduce costs. This is not contradictory.
    And from my observations on the ground, it begins with choosing the right people for positions like loaders and similar. We need people on the ground, willing to work very hard, and willing to invest time until they can enjoy the benefits, which UPS does provide (such as health insurance, retirement benefits etc.). But that is a long way to go, and in contradiction to today's expectation of instant gratification.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  12. The Milkman

    The Milkman Well-Known Member

    I agree with you on most points , but again...If UPS is so profitable why not take care of the people who put them on the Global Map?? They do pay very well but over the years whittleing away at the benefits for employees does nothing but bring morale down..If they can continue to gobble up companies I am sure they can be more reasonable with us about health costs, who have been there to put them where they are today..Billions not Millions...Yes costs go up but jacking them up 10 to 15 times what we were paying seems excessive..Our pension is decent and when I planned on retirement like many others did we would never of expected a cost jump that many of us cannot afford???..Is that asking too much?? Over 25 yrs of butt busting and all that went with it, for every retired UPSER that has been there........I don't think so.....:not_fair:
  13. TearsInRain

    TearsInRain IE boogeyman

    if there is any lesson that can be drawn from history, other than 'anyone can be killed', it is 'expand or die'

    doesn't have to be the ONLY priority, but if growing the business isn't the MAIN priority, our days are numbered
  14. DS

    DS Fenderbender

    If I had a billion dollars
    I'd buy you a country
    that's not practical at all
    If I had a billion dollars
    maybe a castle or a shopping mall
    no lets buy something elegant
    If I had a billion dollars I'd buy you
    a shipping company
  15. beentheredonethat

    beentheredonethat Well-Known Member

    I wish the cost of insurance stayed at a reasonable level, but it hasn't. However, I hope you realize that UPS is a company with shareowners many of whom have nothing to do with UPS except that they own a portion of the business. Although UPS is profitable, the level of profit isn't outrageous (roughly 10% profit margin). UPS already pays to it's drivers the highest pay rate in the industry. We have been paying the highest pay rate in the industry for years. The benefits the teamsters recieve is better then the benefits mgmt receives. A contract was agreed to that UPS is abiding by in paying for a very large portion of H&W costs. However, the cost went above the threshold where UPS covers 100% and now the extra is shared between the retiree and UPS. (which again as was pointed out is better then mgmt). Also, truthfully, I think a lot of the bigwigs in Atlanta really have the opinion that the teamsters struck the company in 97 that seriously hurt it and helped the competition. I think it put a large wedge between the teamster and mgmt and that wedge still exists. It seems when UPS pays a good rate and had great HW for years it was due to the "teamsters".

    Look at 90% of the posts by hourlies, they bash and criticize UPS and mgmt. Then we get posts like this saying it's not fair, UPS should do more for us. If you were bashed over and over, would you help someone out?

    How would you explain ths to shareowners of the company saying we will pay millions and millions of dollars to former UPS'ers just to be nice? How would you feel if you had a portion of your retirement savings in a stock of a company and that stock went down to this type of decision?

    We need to look at it from al sides.

    Again, I wish UPS covered all costs of insurance. As I indicated earlier, I've been paying hundreds and hundreds of dollars per month for years now.
  16. beentheredonethat

    beentheredonethat Well-Known Member

    One last note... Let's say you hire a general contractor to build your house at a cost of 250,000. He based the price on his direct costs, plus his cost of insurance, his costs for materials etc etc etc. Well, you move into house everything is great. Then a few years later the general contractor comes to you and says.. well I know we agreed to 250K for your house, but my 401K took a dive in the market. So I can't afford to stay retired like I had planned. I need you to pay me 25K more to help me out in retirement. After all, you are doing well, you were even able to add an addition, you have a nice car, you can afford it. Would you help him?

    I realize this example is a bit over the top, but a deal is a deal, and UPS lived up to it's deal that was negotiated.
  17. Gumby

    Gumby *

    Hey!!!they promised us a good retirement and benefits Dont renig on the deal now!If I have to..I will come to work on crutches or in a wheelchair (only if i have to!!!) to get what we were promised!!!! I didnt work my whole entire adult life for yenz brown bastards to take away what you promised me and everyone else!!Try something new DO THE RIGHT THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111
  18. beentheredonethat

    beentheredonethat Well-Known Member

    Show me the page of the national contract or your supplement with that wording!!! People are so quick to file a grievance based on something UPS did that violates the letter of the contract. Then... also if UPS does stuff outside of contract (which is a benefit to the hourly) and UPS stops it, then you grieve for a change of past practice. Another Teamster indicated what you are reading in your letters is in the contract. We agreed to pay for HW up to a set dollar amount. Then past that the employee or retiree shares the costs. I get being upset having the costs go up. Do you complain to your gas station that gas is 3+ or sometimes 4+ dollars per gallon. Then say you guys promised me cheap gas? No promise was given for gas, no promise using the words "good retirement" exists. Besides, other teamsters keep saying the next contract needs to be more black and white and less grey. Sounds like you want grey when it can benefit you and black and white when it benefits you.
  19. Brownslave688

    Brownslave688 You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

    Sorry but I see zero correlation here.
  20. The Milkman

    The Milkman Well-Known Member

    Look at 90% of the posts by hourlies, they bash and criticize UPS and mgmt. Then we get posts like this saying it's not fair, UPS should do more for us. If you were bashed over and over, would you help someone out?

    HWe need to look at it from al sides.

    Ever wonder Why all the bashing?? I dealt with all the crap dealt to me over the yrs..UPS treated us like we were nothing but #'s..They still do..I went above and beyond trudging through the snow and ice to make service, dealt with all the alt . deliveries, dealt with the mgnt decisions to pull me off my rte many times to do what is best for the company Blah blah Blah..My Union brothers Sweat, the Pre loaders Sweat, the Unloaders Sweat, The Clerks Sweat, the poor P/T Sup doing preload or midnight sort Sweat..We all went above and beyond..made UPS so big it amazes me ...They can make profit yes, but when the profit goes into Buying air time on TV, sponsoring Nascar, the Olympics as done yrs ago..seems to me that if they have that much Loose change lying around..Why not help the PEOPLE, instead of the Fat Cats in their seats in Atlanta or their Lobbyist freinds for that matter?..You sound like your tie is to tight around your neck...You sound like a typical Mgnt person who was brainwashed over the yrs, and left your human compassion side of yourself out to dry..Day I retired..What did I get?? Mgr did not even come around to wish me well..Worked customer counter so I guess because I was not around the turn in area he must of forgot..Right! If you tasted half the crap I had to swallow over the yrs maybe you would understand, but maybe you were one of the few that was spared the buffet...Profits over people = Greed plain and simple...I think Jim Casey at one time put people first..Yes People, Human beings with lives outside of the hubs that had families, Families that were missed so much because of the almighty $$$...No one forced us to stay but over the yrs sometimes you think that maybe just Maybe UPS would change...Before you know it, you retire and it is worse..I think hope is what keeps most troddong along hopeing someday the PEOPLE would get the praise from mgnt..What ever happened to all the awards? Christmas parties or even yet company sponsored picnics? Oh forgot..if it is United Way then UPS puffs itself up to present a check in front of the cameras so everyone can see a nice side of UPS..What Baloney:grrr: