UPS Driver to face charges?

[dannyboy]

but im not going to try to kill it

Ive come to a point in my life where life is precious, death is cheap.

That goes for all things, not just humans.

Ive spent money I did not have, and time I needed to spend elsewhere nursing a fish back to health. Sometimes whole tankfuls. Even the vets in the area refer people with fish here for care, because they either cant or wont.

Life is precious.

I would not begin the defense with the goal of killing the dog, but protecting myself. At all costs. After my initial response, if the dog backed off, all would be fine. If not, then so be it, his decision.

In my 33 years, been bit more than a dozen times. Never by a dog I saw or knew was there. I always was able to dominate the meetings by being or having an edge.

While I have had to beat dogs, I never killed one in defending myself.

Now hitting them while they were in the street, I pretty much lost count past 30. I figure it to be 100+. Hit 3 at the same time. Center of the road in a blind corner is the wrong place to hump. And to have a consensus on which way to run helps as well. (male trying to run one way, female the other for those who dont understand) It used to be bad the spring after every kid got a puppy for christmas.

As for the force to knock the eye out of the head of a dog, it does not take much. just a sharp tap can do it in some breeds. If you hit them just right in the back of the skull, the eyes will pop right out. And unless you can get to them to put it back in, they will scratch it up to bad to save.

In our center, one driver lost three finger tips, another a broken arm to dogs in one year. So it is a real problem, especially with the larger breeds.

d

 

[backinbrown]

thats alot of dogs over those years

that must be awfull for you and familys

i have been fortunate and haven't had any run out yet

 

[BigBrownSanta]

I didn't get to see the video, but from the picture, it looks to me that the dog is being aggressive. IMO, the driver is justified in protecting himself.

 

[dupa]

DR FD, pkg from drug company, no dog visible during del. Called into office next AM, dog had to get stomached pumped.
Told center manager, " sorry, but bummer for dog" was good delivery out of sight.

 

[Babagounj]

As an airdriver, I am never going to the same locations , so learning about what dogs are cute & those that aren't is not possible.
I have been jumped upon & scratched several times with the owners standing there saying " he's just being friendly " is total bs.
I side with this driver.
The dog owner who is calling for this driver to be fired is a nut job.

 

[BigBrownSanta]

If you click on More Videos, you can watch the news report and the video of the incident. If you pause the video and use your mouse to move the slider, at the 2:00 minute point, the dog appears to bite at the driver. At the least, the dog is being very aggressive towards the driver.

The owner says the driver had more options than to hit the dog, but at the point the dog lunges at the driver, there are no other options except self defense.

 

[spuman]

not in 1 ...remarks:dog
not in 2 ...remarks:dog
not in 3 ...remarks:dog

come get your *****

 

[rod]

I got on that news stations web site and sent them an email giving my support for the UPS driver. It probably wouldn't hurt if a bunch of us done that. Keep it clean.

 

[bigbrownhen]

I think the time stamp on the video says 1000. Possible this was an air delivery, so he was attempting to make service. Thats why they were expecting a package. I doubt any driver would get out of the truck knowing a dog like that was there. The dog was obviously aggressive. I hate that the dog got hurt, but its all on the owners. Too many times I've heard, "He wont bite, or the dog doesn't like the truck, or brown uniform, or men or women,ect...ect...Owners should be held accountable,

 

[LastBest&Final]

It would be nice to get the whole story. Did the owner post beware of dogs signs? Did the drive knowingly open and enter a gate that had two large Belgian Malinois? Did he bring a "large, rod like object" in with him to protect himself? If the answer is yes, I would fault the driver for putting himself in a hazardous situation where "nothing good can come from it."

"The Belgian Malinois is an alert, high-energy breed, popular as both a police and military working dog. Although sometimes mistaken for the German Shepherd Dog, the Malinois is more elegant in build and lighter-boned, but does not lack for strength, agility or herding ability. Intelligent and trainable, the Belgian Malinois possesses a strong desire to work and is happiest with regular activity and a job to do. A relatively easy keeper due to their medium size and short coat, this confident breed loves their families, but may be somewhat reserved with strangers. They are naturally protective of their owners without being overly aggressive."
Quote from the American Kennel Club.

Belgian Malinois are great guard dogs and they are only doing there job protecting the owners property. Being a delivery person we have a reason to trespass, but not a right to trespass. We don't have deliver a package if there are great risk of injury to us or risk of damaging property.

If the driver had no knowledge of the dogs before encountering them, then the driver was in the right. The driver would not have any reason not to enter the gate and deliver the package. The owners are very lucky that was the only injury occurred and every one is OK minus one dogs eye. Large breed dogs can and do injure and kill people, so he has every right to protect him self if caught by surprise.

"It's obvious he's gone way past the line," Storey said. "I understand protecting yourself, (but) this is putting yourself in a position where nothing good can come from it."

It's of my opinion from what the owner said that the driver enter the gate with a long rod like object with every intention of injuring the dog or dogs if confronted. That is why he was place in custody for animal injury charge with a $500 bond. One phone call from a clerk would have stop this. I have never been questioned about why I brought a package back that I couldn't deliver because of a dog, yet. If a dog is there and it is safe don't deliver it. Why take the chance?

Again we don't have the whole story.

 

[UPSNewbie]

I think the time stamp on the video says 1000. Possible this was an air delivery, so he was attempting to make service. Thats why they were expecting a package. I doubt any driver would get out of the truck knowing a dog like that was there. The dog was obviously aggressive. I hate that the dog got hurt, but its all on the owners. Too many times I've heard, "He wont bite, or the dog doesn't like the truck, or brown uniform, or men or women,ect...ect...Owners should be held accountable,

The video showed that he drove away in a sprinter, so I would agree.

 

[BigBrownSanta]

"It's obvious he's gone way past the line," Storey said. "I understand protecting yourself, (but) this is putting yourself in a position where nothing good can come from it."

IMO, "past the line" would be repeatedly beating the dog.

"Being in a position where nothing good can come from it" was caused by the irresponsible owners by allowing their dogs to run free knowing that a delivery was going to be made to their porch.

"It's of my opinion from what the owner said that the driver enter the gate with a long rod like object with every intention of injuring the dog or dogs if confronted. That is why he was place in custody for animal injury charge with a $500 bond. One phone call from a clerk would have stop this. I have never been questioned about why I brought a package back that I couldn't deliver because of a dog, yet. If a dog is there and it is safe don't deliver it. Why take the chance?

I don't think a gate was mentioned in the story. I also don't think the driver carried a "rod-like" object with the sole intent to hurt the dogs, but rather to defend himself if the dogs became aggressive. I have had packages I couldn't deliver because of dogs that were placed back on my truck to be reattempted. All of them have been returned to the clerk as NI4, NI5 and NI6.

Again we don't have the whole story

I agree, I would like to have seen the whole video, not bits and pieces spliced together.

 

[LastBest&Final]

With out the facts it anyone guess.

 

[Coldworld]

First off, per the customer, I have always been the first person to have been bitten by their dog. The dog has never ever never been aggressive to anyone in the past. Ever. So always there is no past history of any aggression, just one day, fido gets it in their head they want a piece of the UPS driver.

Right!

Several things.

We have a right to be on their property. They gave us that right when they ordered the package.

They have self proclaimed "guard dogs" running loose on the property. In the video, it shows the dog running up from the rear in classic sneak attack mode. That is a home owners liability and responsibility to protect people there legally from attack.

The driver hit the dog in self defense. Dont know if just once, but once was all it showed. So musta been enough to take the fight out of the dog.

As for the odds, the driver did the right thing to neutralize one, so there was only one other one to be able to attack him. He also used the house to protect his back.

Judging by the video, he knew the dogs were at the home, but did not see them. If you notice, as he is walking up, he is looking forward, not behind him at the dog. So he makes the delivery only to be pinned against the house by an attacking dog(s).

I think he ought to sue the home owner.

d

Bingo danny!!!

 

[Coldworld]

Ive come to a point in my life where life is precious, death is cheap.

That goes for all things, not just humans.

Ive spent money I did not have, and time I needed to spend elsewhere nursing a fish back to health. Sometimes whole tankfuls. Even the vets in the area refer people with fish here for care, because they either cant or wont.

Life is precious.

I would not begin the defense with the goal of killing the dog, but protecting myself. At all costs. After my initial response, if the dog backed off, all would be fine. If not, then so be it, his decision. ITS ON!!!!

In my 33 years, been bit more than a dozen times. Never by a dog I saw or knew was there. I always was able to dominate the meetings by being or having an edge.

While I have had to beat dogs, I never killed one in defending myself.

Now hitting them while they were in the street, I pretty much lost count past 30. I figure it to be 100+. lol Hit 3 at the same time. danny "chuck norris" boy.Center of the road in a blind corner is the wrong place to hump. And to have a consensus on which way to run helps as well. (male trying to run one way, female the other for those who dont understand) It used to be bad the spring after every kid got a puppy for christmas.

As for the force to knock the eye out of the head of a dog, it does not take much. just a sharp tap can do it in some breeds. If you hit them just right in the back of the skull, the eyes will pop right out. lol.... And unless you can get to them to put it back in, they will scratch it up to bad to save.

In our center, one driver lost three finger tips, another a broken arm to dogs in one year. So it is a real problem, especially with the larger breeds.

d

Not trying to hijack your thread, but this was hillarious. I know you were not trying to be too funny or serious, but I couldnt stop laughing, guess its the way you just said things.

 

[Rook]

Regarding defense training against dogs, I've had this instruction numerous times during PCM and our Monday morning rookie driver safety meetings. I've only been around shy of two years now, but I've had dozens of close calls that I like to think I walked away from injury-free because I did exactly what the vets said: face the dog while you walk, speak firmly, put the package or diad between you, and be ready to whack the animal in the face.

That reminds me of a question that's been on my mind since this story surfaced. In training, one of the finance suits explained to us that a run-over dog that dies costs us almost nothing, where one that lives has stacks of vet and emergency bills that have to be paid. I wonder if it's the same, all 'depends' aside, when I beat a dog to death after it attacks me? Assuming of course that the dog in this story actually did attack the driver, would it have been better had the dog died from its injuries?

God knows I don't want to kill dogs. Not the regular-sized normal ones anyway. I'm just curious how this works out from a legal and financial standpoint.

 

[LastBest&Final]

First off, per the customer, I have always been the first person to have been bitten by their dog. The dog has never ever never been aggressive to anyone in the past. Ever. So always there is no past history of any aggression, just one day, fido gets it in their head they want a piece of the UPS driver.

Right!

Several things.

We have a right to be on their property. They gave us that right when they ordered the package.

They have self proclaimed "guard dogs" running loose on the property. In the video, it shows the dog running up from the rear in classic sneak attack mode. That is a home owners liability and responsibility to protect people there legally from attack.

The driver hit the dog in self defense. Dont know if just once, but once was all it showed. So musta been enough to take the fight out of the dog.

As for the odds, the driver did the right thing to neutralize one, so there was only one other one to be able to attack him. He also used the house to protect his back.

Judging by the video, he knew the dogs were at the home, but did not see them. If you notice, as he is walking up, he is looking forward, not behind him at the dog. So he makes the delivery only to be pinned against the house by an attacking dog(s).

I think he ought to sue the home owner.

d

I couldn't see the video, so I didn't get all the information you did. Harding dogs heard. They circle around you and bite at you heels from behind. I would hit the dog, too if I knew the dog was going to bite me. For the dog to loose an eye is better than it to bite a person by far. If the dog was running at large why wouldn't the sheriff site the owner? Not only that, but instead he places the driver under arrest and is need to be bailed out! That's strange!!

I might be reading more into than what is there but when the owner says:

"It's obvious he's gone way past the line," Storey said. "I understand protecting yourself, (but) this is putting yourself in a position where nothing good can come from it."

The owner admits the right for a person to defend himself from an attacking dog, but question why he was in that position that he had to defend him self in the first place. The owner didn't call his dog a "guard dogs" the person who wrote the article did. That don't change the merit of the case at all.

He couldn't sue the home owner for much because the driver didn't suffer any damages, but the Sheriff could have ticket the owner for endangerment. The law will have to settle this one.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

We have all been involved in incidents with dogs but how many of us have made the delivery while carrying a "rod-like object"?

Let's assume for a second that the homeowner was home and he witnessed the driver walking up to make the delivery while carrying this object. What do you think his first question is going to be? "Why are you carrying that? Are you carrying that because of my dogs?" You can bet that the homeowner is going to call the toll free to complain about the driver carrying a "weapon" on to his property and he would be justified in doing so.

Someone mentioned DRing a pkg and the dog eating the contents. I have had that happen twice, once with brewers yeast and the other with an area rug. The dog almost died after eating the yeast as I guess it mixed with his stomach juices and expanded. Both were good DRs and UPS paid $0 for both.

We have many options available to us when dealing with dogs, none of which should involve carrying a weapon for the sole purpose of "defending" ourselves. Defending yourself against injury is by all means justified--what this driver did goes beyond defending yourself and he should suffer whatever consequences await him.

 

[squirlygirly]

Just looked at video, couldn't hear it, but no need, actions speak louder than sound ever will in this video.

To The Owners Of Pets EVERYWHERE:

If you know you are expecting a package from someone that will obviously be on your property legally, but unlawful to said "guard dog/s", be sure to restrain your animal until delivery is complete.

In case you didn't know, it is considered a federal crime for us to use your mail box, which I'm guessing is outside of the gated house you appear to live in, as a drop-off for deliveries. I can't imagine the stories your mail guy/girl would have to tell about this animal.

I refer to your dog as an "animal" simply because that is what he/she is. Although I'm sure with a familiar face like yours and wife "it" will always be just a little puppy to you...with one eye.

Sincerely,
Commen Sense

BROWN DEVIL...thanx. I think that's the first nicest comment anyone has said to me on this forum.

Kinda interesting, though, no one else has actually commented about my lil' letter, but they sure take my lil quips and run with em within their own postings. WHATEVER!!!

 

[Packagewarrior]

If you are a driver in Iowa, the law states: "It shall be lawful for any person to kill a dog, wearing a collar with a rabies vaccination tag attached, when the dog is caught in the act of chasing, maiming, or killing any domestic animal or fowl, or when such dog is attacking or attempting to bite a person." Unfortunately, Mississippi law has no such statute.