UPS-ron: MIP vs. Material Definitive Agreement

Discussion in 'UPS Partners' started by Browncabbage, Oct 31, 2006.

  1. Browncabbage

    Browncabbage New Member

    It seems that our "Partnership" does not apply to Grade 20 Management Employees and above. As should be expected with UPS-ron, less than 4 months after forcing another change in the MIP program the "Compensation Committee" and the Casey Foundation found it their hearts and our wallets to SNEAK in this "Material Definitive Agreement". This plan grants the Grade 20's and above a 50% to a 250% ANNUAL SALARY BONUS! This "Long-term" incentive will pay out in RSU's and will mature on 12/31/2008 (by my math that is a full 3 years before I will receive 100% of my 2005 MIP). Not to mention, the criteria will not be posted for updates and will be "determined by the Committee in its discretion". If you think I am kidding, check out the attached links. Please pass this information along to as many employees as possible. It is past the time to start asking questions the Management Committee and Ken Lay...oops, I mean Mike Eskew.
  2. rickybobby

    rickybobby New Member

    The rich keep getting richer as we work our asses off. This type of thing does not motivate me to keep working as hard to fatten the wallets of the executives. At a mininum I will need a 5% raise in 2007 just to cover my benefits. Since this company stopped giving us raises that are decent I am faced with earning less money in 2007 then I did in 2006. Reminds me of when Congress votes to give themselves raises.....
  3. Thebrowntruth

    Thebrowntruth Member


    Cmon now are you sure you are being fair? You dont consider the negatives that these fine fearless leaders must suffer where we have the advantage.

    1.) Sometimes the cafeteria coffee in the corp office isnt at Starbucks levels.

    Us - we can still continue our pool of who gets the lucky cockroach in our coffee cup....who needs "poker" coffee cups

    2.) They have to leave each day after sometimes almost 8 full hours of work to avoid the Atlanta traffic

    Us - with 10 hour dispatches we dont drive home to well after rush hour.

    3.) There pay raise "bonus" will increase their taxes

    Us - part time starting wages are nearing minimum wage levels so many will be able to get free food stamps.

    4.) They have to wait two full years to get this extra "bonus"

    Us - we get our standard in 5 years....oh wait let me consult my "addition with Mike handbook" oops 5 is still more than two, my mistake.

    5.) They have to suffer with warm meals cooked every day in the cafeteria

    Us - I got some of those great microwave tacos from the vending machine. At two weeks old they were aged to perfection.

    So see maybe you need to stop crying and see how good we have it here with Ken running Enron..........oh crap........maybe the partnership is leaking a bit afterall....................
  4. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    One of the perks not mentioned above. Those who are able to reach that level also make the rules. Including their compensation.

    Its all good talking about the rich getting richer but I imagine there is some other reason behind the changes besides just greed.

    generally companies increase compensation for specific skills when the market becomes competitive for that skill.

    So there is probably some fear that we could lose too many of our talented people at the top thus the increase in compensation.

    Now I know many of us at the bottom get can get some good jokes out of discussing the incompetence of many of those who occupy those positions but at the same time there are many in those jobs who are extremely talented at managing there many responsibilities effectively. Those are the ones who could successfully leave and thrive elsewhere if we don't keep their salaries competitive. I would imagine a growing fdx or DHL would love to have some of our top talent.

    The MIP issue is one of what I consider many blunders this company has made since we went public. Many operations managers and sups have a hard time identifying with the six measures used to gauge their compensation since they don't directly affect as many as 5 of the 6.

    I can manage the cost of my operation and make somewhat intelligent decisions on what cost is good cost and what is not.

    However I have a hard time identifying with how I impact the growth of high revenue packages. Its normally a no brainer to figure out that NDA and international packages are high revenue. The rest is not. The actual profitability of those other packages is difficult to gauge and our actual bidcam analysis is usually a closely guarded secret as it should be for competitive reasons.

    Many managers retired millionaires from this company. Not because the company gave them a million dollars worth of stock but because of how the stock was awarded and priced. As a private company the stock increased anywhere from a buck to 4 bucks a share each quarter. Once the stock amount built up you hypo'd. Putting up your stock as collateral to borrow money to buy more. You risked what you had to buy more. As a private stock you could hypo as much as 90 percent of the value of your stock. As a public company 50 to 60 percent is the generaly the best you can get. Couple that with a stock price that generally bounces around and presently has only increased about 3 bucks in the last 3 years and its clear the same path to riches is not there.

    I'm also not crazy about the RSU concept. I don't believe you should pay someone 5 years from now for something they earned this year. Assuming all is well and I retire its really no big deal because I will eventually get my money but its not my preference to be compensated this way.

    So my insight for what its worth and criticism. Its not crying. I'm still proud of the fact I work for the big brown machine I just wish they would stop screwing with a system that worked very well.
  5. speeddemon

    speeddemon Guest

    Tie, you have got to be kidding me.
  6. CTOTH

    CTOTH Not retired, just tired

    How is it that even when you guys (managment) get f*****, you're still able to remain positive?
    I wish I had your mentality in more of my daily situations. I never be stressed.
  7. traveler

    traveler Where next? Venice

    Yes, there is a lot of $$$ involved here but please do not forget to note the relatively low salaries of upper management as compared to other large companies. I know I will be called to task for this statement, still, please look at the compensation for CEO's and CFO's, etc. in other multi-billion dollar companies. The salary with perks of UPSers in upper management does not compare at all.

    By the way, there has always been special compensation for UPS upper management. Some of those were options for division managers and above, Parmac and New Parmac for upper management. No one really saw much of this when the company was privately held but since UPS went public (still a big mistake in my opinion) all this info is available to those who wish to find it.

    Finally, yes, I would be really :censored2: at the MIP this year were I still working. I believe some in power have lost their way.
  8. Thebrowntruth

    Thebrowntruth Member

    [Now I know many of us at the bottom get can get some good jokes out of discussing the incompetence of many of those who occupy those positions but at the same time there are many in those jobs who are extremely talented at managing there many responsibilities effectively. Those are the ones who could successfully leave and thrive elsewhere if we don't keep their salaries competitive. I would imagine a growing fdx or DHL would love to have some of our top talent.


    Well said.........and I agree with all except for with the above. Wouldnt the same competitive forces be knockin' on the doors of the talented front line troops? We were always in it for the long term, a strong partnership for a secure future. So now our leaders give an another example of take the money and run now. Can you tell me someone on our board that the market would love to have? They have done a wonderful job of increasing our stock by what 2% a year since close of the first day of IPO? Those kind of returns are NEVER tolerated on Wall Street. But our board is shielded by the fact they control over 50% of the voting rights with the stock held in the Casey Foundation.
    Sure the front line troops are the ones that are always "in the game" day in and day out. We never had a problem putting it all on the line every day for decades. But now we cant get our "coaches" to even stay in the same stadium with us let alone walk the talk on the same field. Makes it a lot tougher to sack it up every day doesnt it?
  9. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Are you kidding me. Any full time person working for the brown machine including the union folks make more money than about 95 percent of the world. How can I not stay positive?
  10. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

  11. Tie,
    I'm not entirely sure where grade 20 starts, but let me make a couple of observations. Of the division managers in our district, half of them are very talented and I think they are top rate managers. The other half, however, would never be in the position that they are if they had not come up through the ranks in the good old days. If they left UPS, there is no way they could even begin to find a job that would pay them 1/2 of what they make now. I question if they could even make PPH on my preload.
    Secondly, have you ever been to your region headquarters? Didn't you find yourself wondering why all those people are there?
    Thirdly, corporate was going to clear all the extra people out of Atlanta and send them back to the districts. I haven't seen any body come back to our district. I didn't notice much of a change when the regions were consolidated. Where did all those grade 20's go? DHL? FedEx? The only people I know of who go to the competition are supervisors.
    I understand our cost issues and our competitive situation, and I understand that everyone at UPS works harder than they ever have. I just resent the fact that me and my peers are the only ones being asked to bear the monetary cuts. (MIP, Benefits, reduced salary growth, Salary continuation, etc.)
    UPS has been a cash cow for a lot of people for a long time and it is time to cut cost, but lets share the love.
  12. upsdawg

    upsdawg UPSDAWG

    Tie-----i totallly agree with your comments about UPS attempting to keep our most talented upper level management people---THEY ARE VERY MARKETABLE---not only to our transportation competitors---but to the companies involved with Logistics.

    It used to make me laugh when UPS would pay to get some of our young A/E's a Masters Degree---and than see these peolpe leave UPS after 1 year to go to work for a higher paying company.UPS now requires that if you leave within 5 years you have to repay the cost of tuition.

    It is harder in Management now to become an instant millionaire.I remember before we went public----there was a software program to use to calculate how much your current stock was going to be worth in 5 years---10 years.It used to be a 20% annual growth and your stock would double in 5 years---not anymore!

    Tie--good advice to the younger Management Team, or those contemplationg going into management-----save those MIP awards--they will add up, and by the time you are 55 you will be financially able to retire with some money and great medical benefits!
  13. brownISer

    brownISer Guest

    BrownBlack&Blue: Division Managers are grade 18
  14. UPScomputerGUY

    UPScomputerGUY New Member

    Without hypothication current day managers will never have near the wealth of those with 20+ years ....
  15. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    The hypos has lost much of its power in the traditional sense. With interest rates up as much as they are your hypos are charging 8 to 9 percent.

    Your actually better off doing a hypo and then sinking the proceeds in some high dividend stocks like NFI or FRO. UPS's dividend is not climbing quickly enough to keep pace with the interest rate increases.
  16. Fishcat

    Fishcat New Member

    I agree, if you haven't diversified since 1999-now is the time. If you think the midpoint extra incentive (upto a months salarly) is worth it- it's not! You can do alot better with good financial planners. Your UPS stock is a good hold stock in your portfolio--don't make it a large part of your portfolio!
    I would also urge you look at the hourly wage of feeder drivers in the contract book--figure a 55 hour work week and compare that to the .8 mip factor (half of 1.6) on top of your salary. --who gets paid more?!?
  17. BoogaBooga

    BoogaBooga Member

    I think it would have been alot cheaper to have grade 20 management and above sign a paper stating that they cannot leave UPS and work for the competition. After all I have been made to sign Driver Release instructions that can leave me financially responsible for a misdelivered/ incorrectly delivered package. I believe it comes down to theft by design.
  18. ESKEW MUST GO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As an investor, this has been a DEAD stock since a week after going public in 1999 as Fed Ex stock has increased 300% since that time. As a management employee- Raises that do not keep up with inflation and cost of benefits, low MIP, etc.(funny how MIP buys stock with after tax money and WILL NOT be purchaced at the 10% discount-DESP- that hourly employees can with the ALL money earned!) This guy has got to go!!!!!!!!!!
  19. Anonymous 1

    Anonymous 1 Guest

    He's not the only one. There's more in the Districts that are equally clueless. Our organization is sinking....
  20. guzzi71

    guzzi71 Can do it when I get around to it.

    Gee, I seem to remember a stock market crash due to the 90% borrowing margin.