macafee please grow up bite your tounges, go to work and be good make the company stronger and better it all starts with you guys,,, Teamsters is there to help you little boys grow up and be men,like me love Teamsters and all its doing for me and my family,so go to work suck it up,bite your tounges,and leave Teamsters alone
You got to wonder about the logic people like mac are using when they say we should complain about the union. We are going to be making 28 dollars a hour to drive a package car. Thanks to the union. Whats there to complain about?
We may be making $28 to drive a package car...but it isn't because of the Teamsters. Who are you kidding?
Do you think the Teamsters just walked in negotiations and said: "In 2008, we want our drivers to make $28 per hour" and UPS just said OK? UPS always has a financial package that they can offer in negotiations, and they decide with the union at negotiations how it will be divided up - benefits, salary, pension, etc...
Future pay increases will only happen if UPS can remain profitable and build the business. I think we should not complain....we should go out and get those packages back...and then some!
Good point. Thats the one thing I really don''t see. I don't see any UPSers or teamsters officials standing up and raising any hell about getting our packages back. A thought for today in 97 approximately 87 percent of all shippers were single carrier in todays world approximately 25 percent are. I wonder what changed in 97 to cause shippers to become multi carrier.
"A thought for today in 97 approximately 87 percent of all shippers were single carrier in todays world approximately 25 percent are. I wonder what changed in 97 to cause shippers to become multi carrier."
I wonder what changed in 97 to cause shippers to become multi carrier.
I have my own opinion of who was at fault for the strike, and I'm sure it is different form yours, but in the end it doesn't matter. The business situation we face now is what we have to deal with, and pointing fingers for the unfortunate events of 6 years ago won't solve it. Instead of trying to fix the blame, let's fix the problem, then noone gets blamed. The past is set in stone, and we can't change it, the only thing we can shape is the future. If we all stick together and work hard, Big Brown will be just fine, and we will all be playing golf in the Bahamas in our golden years. </font>
All shippers and customers got burned and the Clinton Admin did nothing, due to their 'debts' owed to Teamsters. As a result no UPS employees benefited either. Any shipping, transportation, or logistics manager without contingency plans should be fired. UPS needs to stay the course on finding new and betters ways to offer value to customers as an integrated provider of supply chain services, worldwide, and not so much as a domestic package carrier. I am very positive about what is being accomplished.
Proups do you really think if the Union wasnt there we would be making the same amount with the same benifits??? If you say yes then i'll puke. If you say no then your contradicting your post....does managment pay anything for medical???? hmmmm,,, that might be a hint that we would have less. UPS is great...but it will cut cost anywhere. I do go out and get the business. Paid for christmas presents with bonus dollars for business I got. I know where my bread is buttered...Go UPS!!!!!!!!!!
"Proups do you really think if the Union wasnt there we would be making the same amount with the same benifits???"
If you look at the issue objectively most non-union employees actually start at a higher rate and all acrue their beni's much quicker than the union employees. In fact many of you will complain that UPS pays the managment person too much on one day and then try to say that ups would never do such a thing without a union to force them. Interesting irony.
You didnt answer the question. Would the average employee have what he has today if the union wasnt there. If the union would go away tomorrow your telling us that things would be as good or better without the union???? Yes or no. No spinning please. You seem to take just portions of a post and not the whole context of the post. The heart of the post is wether the union makes us have better benifits,wages,work conditions. Yes or no.
Proups you dont actually think UPS said to the union " well we have this much money for the employees lets just figure how to package it for them" You got to be kidding.
Like I said I love UPS but they dont give away anything.
I thought I answered the question very well. The non-union employee of UPS currently has many advantages the union employee does not have. Not sure how thats being taken out of context. Rather than speculating on what may or may not happen I have given you specifics that support my position.
I'm not contradicting anything, so don't attack me.
Here is some "logic" for you:
Yes, management does have to pay for their benefits. But how about the rest of the perks they get in their total compensation: stock (lots of $$$$$), one-half month salary as a bonus in December???? Did a union negotiate that?
In fact, go ask HR. They can show you where all non-union employees (including the office people and the technicians) in the contract years 1997-2001 averaged about 6% higher in pay increases than did the union members. Did the union negotiate that?
My point was that no company that negotiates with a union goes into negotiations without a dollar figure that they can spend on pay and benefits and continue to operate profitably.
If you want an example, take a look at the news. United Airlines is about to go bankrupt. Why? Because their union mechanics declined to take a cut in pay so United could stay in business without declaring bankruptcy. This surprised even the union officials, who had been working with the company so that it could remain in business, and had urged it's membership to vote for the pay cuts. In fact, several of United's union represented employees had already approved pay cuts. Now the mechanics vote no, and the company faces bankruptcy.
The only reason Fedex is taking away our business is through lower pricing. This is because their drivers are non-union, and they are not the best paid on the street. We are, and we should show it by getting those packages back as good UPSers and not by chest pounding about what the union did for us.
United Airlines is about to go bankrupt. Why? Because their union mechanics declined to take a cut in pay so United could stay in business without declaring bankruptcy.
That's a bit of a stretch don't ya think? The Union members rejection of the pay cuts is only the latest problem for United, it's not the reason that they are facing bankruptcy in the 1st place. And in all fairness to those mechanics, won't you consider that maybe they honestly feel that the airline has not done all it can to trim the fat in other areas before asking them to take a paycut? Sometimes you show a disturbing tendency to blame all a company's problems on the unions.
The only reason Fedex is taking away our business is through lower pricing. This is because their drivers are non-union, and they are not the best paid on the street.
That's another oversimplification designed to blame all our problems on the union. Fedex is offering lower pricing because they can afford it. So could we, but we choose not to. UPS is making huge profits, and clearly upper managemnt doesn't feel that we are losing enough volume to fedex to justify a pricewar. And those price differentials are only on the individual customer walking into parcel-plus looking to send a package to grandma, we do offer competetive discounts to our high volume shippers. Like you said, UPS came ino the contract negotiations with a dollar amount they were willing to spend, an amount they believed they could spend and still remain competetive and flexible. Hoffa came through, and in a spirit of cooperation he gave the company an early contract, probably at a little less than the company was actually willing to spend. There are a lot of factors and variables facing a huge, highly profitable, international company in the business world of today, and a unionized workforce is only of them. It's just lazy to blame all bad things on the union.
(Message edited by deliver_man on November 30, 2002)
Actually its another example of what your style of debate is. You did not respond directly to anything I said instead you fired another one of your little jokes at me. My point as I made earlier had nothing to do with deliver mans post. Therefore your "joke" probably should have been directed at the person who deliverman was responding to.