What is L.P. thinking?

[tieguy]

The proof that he stole stole the phone is and i quote lp " well he registered the phone so he had to have stolen it", thats enough proof to terminate a 7 year employee? To drag him out in hand cuffs during the middle of break so others can see him? I believe your right and someone should lose their job, but its not this employeee!

Red when you get a little more experience at these panels you'll know that you can always get some confusing quotes or statements from people if you ask the right question.

stay focused on the facts. Fact is he either stole the phone or bought it at a 75 percent discount knowing the thing was hot.

 

[tieguy]

Let me say that if theres a wiitness to a crime, theft vandalism etc, i dont care if its an hourly or management employee, that shows some proof. Now if you have a witness or several and the empty box near by, than he should be fired for theft.

Maybe the laws by you are different, but here he has been charged with theft and can not be found guilty of being in possesion of stolen goods. This is were your lp should have charged him with being in possesion, but NO he wanted to hit a homerun and nail him for everything!

You teach us the 5 seeing habits so we stay alert and aware of our surrondings at all time, but yet management can just half their way from pay check to pay check.

And yes i will have reporters there, i have the daily herald newspaper on my route and have talked with a couple of reporters already.

Red, all the information is wonderful to know. My lp guy screwed up the case so a thief gets to walk. Good for you guys. But the fact remains he is a thief. Don't invite him over to your house or anywhere near your valuables because he will steal from you as well as the company. Go out and have a beer and congratulate yourself on getting a thief off.

 

[705red]

Red, all the information is wonderful to know. My lp guy screwed up the case so a thief gets to walk. Good for you guys. But the fact remains he is a thief. Don't invite him over to your house or anywhere near your valuables because he will steal from you as well as the company. Go out and have a beer and congratulate yourself on getting a thief off.

Actually hes not a theif! You failed to prove him guilty and provide evidence enough to make a valid argument. Dont hate me because i represented the contract language, instead maybe ups should hold meetings to explain contract language. Maybe they can bring in mullet boy and his white board so he can draw pictures for some to follow along with!

 

[1989]

Actually hes not a theif! You failed to prove him guilty and provide evidence enough to make a valid argument. Dont hate me because i represented the contract language, instead maybe ups should hold meetings to explain contract language. Maybe they can bring in mullet boy and his white board so he can draw pictures for some to follow along with!

Could he be an accomplise? Nobody knows that he wasn't. Besides without this person in question there wouldn't have been a market for the stolen merchandise. Kinda like a prostitute and a john. The john isn't the prostitute, yet he can be guilty of a crime.

 

[tieguy]

Actually hes not a theif! You failed to prove him guilty and provide evidence enough to make a valid argument. Dont hate me because i represented the contract language, instead maybe ups should hold meetings to explain contract language. Maybe they can bring in mullet boy and his white board so he can draw pictures for some to follow along with!

Red , thats my point thief or reciever of stolen goods. Same thing a thief. We would have a lot less thievery if there were no recievers of stolen goods.So he is a thief either way.

 

[dannyboy]

My point has been he either stole it or his bought it at a 75 percent discount as he claims. We really don't know because thieves are pretty good liars too.

tie

one minute you are actually admitting the truth, that you really dont know what the truth is, because thieves are pretty good liars.

interesting thought that statement. when you extrapolate that a bit further using your method of deduction, because ups management are pretty good liars, then that would make them thieves as well?

Fact is he either stole the phone or bought it at a 75 percent discount knowing the thing was hot.

you are also stretching the truth of knowledge when you state that he bought it knowing it was hot. not fact, supposition on your part and the panel agreed. remember, ups management set in on this. they had a 50% say. so what the heck was it that they heard or didn't hear that made them think your/their LP department was way off base and brought the guy back to work? your guys. ups ,management. so they screwed up in your opinion? they heard the evidence and said he was not guilty. but you are assuming a lot of things and allowing your distaste for 705 to cloud your judgment to assume that he is guilty beyond doubt.

your usual discerning judgment has been turned off on this one. way off base

thief or receiver of stolen goods. Same thing a thief.

if that is the case, why not shut down all flea markets, ebay, pawn shops, etc. i guess the legal system does not see it your way?

Could he be an accomplice? Nobody knows that he wasn't. Besides without this person in question there wouldn't have been a market for the stolen merchandise. Kinda like a prostitute and a john. The john isn't the prostitute, yet he can be guilty of a crime.

89, maybe a lot of things. maybe he had help from the aliens in area 51?

nobody knows he wasnt, but nobody knows he was either. maybe you helped out? if i think that, does it make it so? after all, in your statement, why would i need proof?

what we do try and do in this country before we execute or jail someone is to have pretty good evidence of guilt. its called proof. and from the sounds of the evidence shown at the hearing, they did their deductions like you and tie. he could done this, he could done that. hell, why not charge him with an unsolved murder, after all, thieves are good liars, good liars also have murdered, charge him with first degree murder.

youve got the cart before the horse. he is not guilty until guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt. they tried to do that at a panel of 50% union, 50% management. and they determined that the proof was not there. and all these possible dream situations that you, tie and the lp guy dreamed up were just that. wet dreams designed to get a stupid kid fired. they did that, after hearing all the evidence presented. wonder why??????????

btw, a john is not charged with prostitution, its called solicitation. looking for one is not a crime, but if you will take the time to learn, paying for the services is where the crime takes place.

stupidity is not currently a crime. they did not charge him with possession of a stolen phone, they did not charge him with buying stolen goods. they charged him with stealing the phone. period. that is what the charge is. and the evidence shows????????

d

 

[drewed]

Isnt against company policy to solicit and buy from solicitors on company property?

 

[dannyboy]

it is, but we have a ups employee that is selling another employee a phone cause he found out he is going to be a dad. so while someone from the outside is barred from soliciting, our employees are not.

really not that unusual to see many part timers in the parking lot after a shift. happens all the time.

d

 

[drewed]

I was under the impression it included employees, like you cant be a 4 sale sign up on the bulletin bored, or a WANTED sign which would both be forms of solicitation not needed

 

[tieguy]

tie

one minute you are actually admitting the truth, that you really dont know what the truth is, because thieves are pretty good liars.

interesting thought that statement. when you extrapolate that a bit further using your method of deduction, because ups management are pretty good liars, then that would make them thieves as well?



you are also stretching the truth of knowledge when you state that he bought it knowing it was hot. not fact, supposition on your part and the panel agreed. remember, ups management set in on this. they had a 50% say. so what the heck was it that they heard or didn't hear that made them think your/their LP department was way off base and brought the guy back to work? your guys. ups ,management. so they screwed up in your opinion? they heard the evidence and said he was not guilty. but you are assuming a lot of things and allowing your distaste for 705 to cloud your judgment to assume that he is guilty beyond doubt.

your usual discerning judgment has been turned off on this one. way off base



if that is the case, why not shut down all flea markets, ebay, pawn shops, etc. i guess the legal system does not see it your way?



89, maybe a lot of things. maybe he had help from the aliens in area 51?

nobody knows he wasnt, but nobody knows he was either. maybe you helped out? if i think that, does it make it so? after all, in your statement, why would i need proof?

what we do try and do in this country before we execute or jail someone is to have pretty good evidence of guilt. its called proof. and from the sounds of the evidence shown at the hearing, they did their deductions like you and tie. he could done this, he could done that. hell, why not charge him with an unsolved murder, after all, thieves are good liars, good liars also have murdered, charge him with first degree murder.

youve got the cart before the horse. he is not guilty until guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt. they tried to do that at a panel of 50% union, 50% management. and they determined that the proof was not there. and all these possible dream situations that you, tie and the lp guy dreamed up were just that. wet dreams designed to get a stupid kid fired. they did that, after hearing all the evidence presented. wonder why??????????

btw, a john is not charged with prostitution, its called solicitation. looking for one is not a crime, but if you will take the time to learn, paying for the services is where the crime takes place.

stupidity is not currently a crime. they did not charge him with possession of a stolen phone, they did not charge him with buying stolen goods. they charged him with stealing the phone. period. that is what the charge is. and the evidence shows????????

d

Danny I'm not going to let myself get drawn into semanitics nor am I going to allow others draw me off on tangents.

the guy was in possession of a stolen cell phone. He either stole it or his story is correct which means we are expected to believe he bought a brand new blackberry at a 75 percent discount and did not know it was hot. I think the guy is a liar and a thief. If he is the fence he claims he was then he is still a thief.

Danny I don't condone thievery nor do I alibi it.

 

[dannyboy]

He either stole it or his story is correct which means we are expected to believe he bought a brand new blackberry at a 75 percent discount and did not know it was hot.

and what i am saying is that a panel of union and company managers heard the evidence and the evidence showed them that he was believeable, moreso than the lp department. members of management and union that feel the same way you and i do, that a thief has no place at ups.

so if there is the slightest problem with the story, why did they let him go back to work? do you not have confidence in the ability if your managment team to get to the bottom of this issue and decide properly what should be done?

I think the guy is a liar and a thief

so ultimately it boils down to not what you or i think is, but what it actually is. the proof. not thoughts or feelings. what bothers me is that even if cleared by the legal system, you would still think he is guilty and treat him as such. i thought i knew you better than that.

and after the fat lady sings, we might know the rest of the story?

best

d

 

[trplnkl]

Isnt against company policy to solicit and buy from solicitors on company property?

The bulletin that hangs in our building reads that "Solicitation" is not allowed on company premises. To me that would be the seller not the buyer. Regardless, that was not the charge against him.

 

[drewed]

Yea I couldnt remember what exactly the policy was, Ill take a look when I get back to work, I was under the impression if you were participating in soliciattion in anyway

 

[tieguy]

and what i am saying is that a panel of union and company managers heard the evidence and the evidence showed them that he was believeable, moreso than the lp department. members of management and union that feel the same way you and i do, that a thief has no place at ups.

so if there is the slightest problem with the story, why did they let him go back to work? do you not have confidence in the ability if your managment team to get to the bottom of this issue and decide properly what should be done?



so ultimately it boils down to not what you or i think is, but what it actually is. the proof. not thoughts or feelings. what bothers me is that even if cleared by the legal system, you would still think he is guilty and treat him as such. i thought i knew you better than that.

and after the fat lady sings, we might know the rest of the story?

best

d

as I previously stated the panel was an easy one for red to win. we'll see what happens when he goes to court. To me it does matter what I think. I don't condone or alibi thievery. I think its wonderful you guys want to kiss a thieves but. I just hope he does you the courtesy of wipeing himself first.....

 

[trplnkl]

Danny I'm not going to let myself get drawn into semanitics nor am I going to allow others draw me off on tangents.

the guy was in possession of a stolen cell phone. He either stole it or his story is correct which means we are expected to believe he bought a brand new blackberry at a 75 percent discount and did not know it was hot. I think the guy is a liar and a thief. If he is the fence he claims he was then he is still a thief.

Danny I don't condone thievery nor do I alibi it.

At this point in time no one has proven that this young man is either a thief or a liar. I can see how he didn't think of the phone as being brand new, it was never represented as brand new on this thread. You are entitled to your opinion and it seems that you would rather ASSume that anyone accused of any offense against UP$ is a liar. In you vast experience at UP$, have you eve seen anyone accused of something they were not guilty of?
Believe it or not, many people are naive to the ways of the world, even seven year employees of UP$. I myself believed for many years that UP$ management people were all upstanding and honest people. Time and experience has taught me better. Yet I do not automatically believe that ALL are dishonest.

 

[trplnkl]

Yea I couldnt remember what exactly the policy was, Ill take a look when I get back to work, I was under the impression if you were participating in soliciattion in anyway

That could be true....I'll look also, now I'm not totally sure how it reads. lol.
I do know that we have a driver that sells burritos every morning and even the DM buys them.

 

[drewed]

Well the guy originally asked 300 for the phone which would mean it would have to be near new condition.

 

[drewed]

That could be true....I'll look also, now I'm not totally sure how it reads. lol.
I do know that we have a driver that sells burritos every morning and even the DM buys them.

HAHA

the way straight to a center manager's heart....through his stomach lol

 

[trplnkl]

as I previously stated the panel was an easy one for red to win. we'll see what happens when he goes to court. To me it does matter what I think. I don't condone or alibi thievery. I think its wonderful you guys want to kiss a thieves but. I just hope he does you the courtesy of wipeing himself first.....

Can you prove he is a thief ? Didn't think so.

 

[tieguy]

At this point in time no one has proven that this young man is either a thief or a liar. I can see how he didn't think of the phone as being brand new, it was never represented as brand new on this thread. You are entitled to your opinion and it seems that you would rather ASSume that anyone accused of any offense against UP$ is a liar. In you vast experience at UP$, have you eve seen anyone accused of something they were not guilty of?
Believe it or not, many people are naive to the ways of the world, even seven year employees of UP$. I myself believed for many years that UP$ management people were all upstanding and honest people. Time and experience has taught me better. Yet I do not automatically believe that ALL are dishonest.

nope . After all the good fairy probably dropped that stolen phone in his hands.

how was he to know that you don't buy brand new blackberrys for a 100 bucks?

apparently he knew how to activate a brand new blackberry but did not know you don't normally buy them for a 100 bucks. hmmmmm..........

spin your thief any way you want.