Who Is McCain?

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
I have mixed feelings about "flip flopping". If it is used to get votes that is deceitful and a form of fraud. On the other hand, we all have to be willing to look at other perspectives and be able to change our thought process to realize when it is time to alter a view on some issue based on the current needs and the current circumstance.

It is my opinion that a good leader is very fluid in his/her decision making process. Life is fluid and we need to adapt to changing situations on a regular basis. This does not make you a flip-flopper.... but it does make you an informed leader willing to make the tough decisions in the best interest of the folks who you are responsible for.

Your core values are what you need to hold on to. These are the things about you that don't change on a regular basis and you stay the course even in the roughest storm.
I basically agree, the charge of "flip flopping" is rarely fair, it's most often used as a simplistic political attack that fails to take into account that real life situations are fluid, not static. Sometimes the change only involves receiving more accurate information about a given situation than can lead you to a propose a different solution. "Staying the course" just to avoid the perception that you made a mistake may be politically savvy, but it makes for poor policy.

You can't have second thoughts if you never had first thoughts.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
There is a measure of "flip-flopping" that what you 2 are saying is true but I'll give you one case for each candidate where I think my claim has some merit.

McCain- Taxes

In March of this year, McCain claimed in effect, no new taxes, which I even agree was a stupid thing to say in light of economic facts. As much as I hate big gov't, I see no way for either candidate to avoid tax increases since there is no drive to cut spending. Now recently, McCain said an increase in SS payroll taxes may be needed which ignited the conservative "no tax" amen corner and now McCain is trying to back track to mend those fences. McCain's record over time however bears that he is not against tax increases by any stretch.

Conclusion: Situation politics or for the simple minded, flip-flops!

Obama: Telecom Communications Act.

Obama paraded the underlying principles to publically oppose this legislation and when the money was on the line, he voted the other way. Situation politics again.

I might concede your points on his "flip-flops" concerning MidEast policy and having opportunity to look closer at the facts but if he does nothing to change the underlying foreign policy of the US that gets us in the middle of others affairs to the point that we get trapped in these type scenarios (Jones my guess is you'll understand that comment more than others here, yeah I just said Jones is smarter than the rest of you smucks :wink2:) IMO, this will mean he's engaging in situation politics or again, flip-flopping.

I think both men engage in situation politics for the soul purpose of getting elected and if we disagree, then we agree to disagree!

:peaceful:
 

diesel96

Well-Known Member
Former Clinton Supporter for McCain
http://

It turns out that the Woman in the new McCain ad (Debra Bartashevish) was asked this week if she new McCain was commited to over turning Roe v. Wade and she was unaware of his position. I guess she probably doesn't know that McBush voted against women receiving equal pay for equal work. I guess she doesn't know McCain is against Hillary's baby...healthcare. I guess if she slammed her head against the glass ceiling endorsed by Republicans, she might eventually knock something loose in her ricochet chamber located between her ears.:wink2:
 

tieguy

Banned
It turns out that the Woman in the new McCain ad (Debra Bartashevish) was asked this week if she new McCain was commited to over turning Roe v. Wade and she was unaware of his position. I guess she probably doesn't know that McBush voted against women receiving equal pay for equal work. I guess she doesn't know McCain is against Hillary's baby...healthcare. I guess if she slammed her head against the glass ceiling endorsed by Republicans, she might eventually knock something loose in her ricochet chamber located between her ears.:wink2:

Discredit her all you want but its a serious concern for democrats. Hillary supporters may actually feel a closer kinship for McCain then Obama. I didn't see a total capitulation by the clintons this week. They said what they had to as good democrats but there was no passion on their part for Obamas ticket.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Looks like I lost $5 on the veep choice. Romney eliminated. Now they are mentioning the Gov. of Alaska, Sarah Palin. Interesting move.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
I think we got to see who McCain really is today!
This is a choice that came out of the bleachers in RIGHT field! He is a risk taker and a shaker and mover. He picked a person who compliments his strengthens and values.

He bolstered and strengthened his position within many western states including Arizona, Nevada, Colorado and Montana. These are/were battleground states.

The Christian Coalition will now be there for him. I don't like coalitions but they are out there.

He is still a maverick and he pulled a maverick to be by his side.

Glenn Beck from CNN felt that the Republican party was ready to implode. Here is a person who leads by using COMMON Sense. She is the Commander of the Alaska National Guard so she presently has more executive experience than Barrack O' Bummer as a leader. She had proved she can cut taxes and tell Congress she does not want their ear-mark money.

She is a former union member married to a union blue collar worker.

You can see a TRUE sense of (McCain/Palin) the running mates appreciation, admiration, and respect for each other.

I had mixed emotions when I heard the choice. My dream candidate for president has always been Colin Powell and I would have preferred him in the first seat... but this would have been a slam dunk if he would have accepted the VP job ... If not him, I still believe in Giuliani but that was not going to happen, so I thought Mitt Romney would be the strongest candidate. Who saw this coming??? I certainly did not!

But I like what I see and I am proud to back the ticket. The Republicans need to shake up the party and Washington.

Certainly McCain gives up some ground on the fight on experience but my gut tells me she can get the job done. I have no problem with her being a heart beat away from the presidency. The answer to the experience thing.... BO has been a senator for three years.... two of those years he has been running for president! He has done nothing of real importance in the senate. She has done much in her short two years as the chief executive of Alaska.

She is REAL - You get what you see.... McCain is REAL - you get what you see. I like what I see!

I personally believe that there is a hidden agenda with BO. We will see all kinds of stuff come out of LEFT field in future years if he makes it into office. He is giving us what we want to hear right now....and he does it soooo elequently!LOL! I strongly believe our country will become polarized and America will be in real trouble. JMHO!
 

paidslave

Well-Known Member
I think we got to see who McCain really is today!
This is a choice that came out of the bleachers in RIGHT field! He is a risk taker and a shaker and mover. He picked a person who compliments his strengthens and values.

He bolstered and strengthened his position within many western states including Arizona, Nevada, Colorado and Montana. These are/were battleground states.

The Christian Coalition will now be there for him. I don't like coalitions but they are out there.

He is still a maverick and he pulled a maverick to be by his side.

Glenn Beck from CNN felt that the Republican party was ready to implode. Here is a person who leads by using COMMON Sense. She is the Commander of the Alaska National Guard so she presently has more executive experience than Barrack O' Bummer as a leader. She had proved she can cut taxes and tell Congress she does not want their ear-mark money.

She is a former union member married to a union blue collar worker.

You can see a TRUE sense of (McCain/Palin) the running mates appreciation, admiration, and respect for each other.

I had mixed emotions when I heard the choice. My dream candidate for president has always been Colin Powell and I would have preferred him in the first seat... but this would have been a slam dunk if he would have accepted the VP job ... If not him, I still believe in Giuliani but that was not going to happen, so I thought Mitt Romney would be the strongest candidate. Who saw this coming??? I certainly did not!

But I like what I see and I am proud to back the ticket. The Republicans need to shake up the party and Washington.

Certainly McCain gives up some ground on the fight on experience but my gut tells me she can get the job done. I have no problem with her being a heart beat away from the presidency. The answer to the experience thing.... BO has been a senator for three years.... two of those years he has been running for president! He has done nothing of real importance in the senate. She has done much in her short two years as the chief executive of Alaska.

She is REAL - You get what you see.... McCain is REAL - you get what you see. I like what I see!

I personally believe that there is a hidden agenda with BO. We will see all kinds of stuff come out of LEFT field in future years if he makes it into office. He is giving us what we want to hear right now....and he does it soooo elequently!LOL! I strongly believe our country will become polarized and America will be in real trouble. JMHO!


McCain is not for Organized labor: read it with your own two eyeballs!

Here is the Article again regarding John McCain and GOP not allowing Walmart to Unionize. Co sponsored bill by Obama for Walmart to have choice to Unionize!

If this country wants better paying jobs with benefits for your hard labor then don't vote for McCain!
http://ostroyreport.blogspot.com/200...mccain-or.html

Poor Walmart first quarter profit 3 billion dollars!

At issue now is a bill, co-sponsored by Obama and opposed by the GOP's presumptive nominee, Sen. John McCain, that could force the retail giant's hand and serve to appreciably lighten its pocketbook. The measure, called the Employee Free Choice Act, would allow unions to organize workplaces without secret ballot elections, thus making it much easier to turn companies from non-union to union. Should this happen at Walmart, it would cost the company bazillions, eating into its sizable earnings. Wal-Mart recently reported first quarter 2008 profits of over $3-billion, a 6.9% increase over last year. Our collective hearts bleed for them, huh?
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
You have not explained how B. Hussein taking away the right to a secret ballot election is good for any worker. You have posted plenty of articles saying that McCain wants people to have the right to a secret ballot and B. Hussein wants to take away this right but I am having a hard time seeing how any sane person thinks this is a good thing.
 

diesel96

Well-Known Member
I had mixed emotions when I heard the choice. My dream candidate for president has always been Colin Powell and I would have preferred him in the first seat... but this would have been a slam dunk if he would have accepted the VP job ... If not him, I still believe in Giuliani but that was not going to happen, so I thought Mitt Romney would be the strongest candidate. Who saw this coming??? I certainly did not!


That's hilarious, your dream canidate supports Obama.....you know the one with the hidden agenda....lol And I'm not so sure he wants to go with your gut feeling with Sarah Palin either.
 

paidslave

Well-Known Member
You have not explained how B. Hussein taking away the right to a secret ballot election is good for any worker. You have posted plenty of articles saying that McCain wants people to have the right to a secret ballot and B. Hussein wants to take away this right but I am having a hard time seeing how any sane person thinks this is a good thing.


In a nutshell from what I grasp: The goverment will be able to see any corrolation to a firing if you voted Union. Walmart fires employees if they find out you are voting Union. These votes are protected. They will no longer be protected and the employee can sue WalMart for illegal firings under the right to assemble ie: proving the employees allegations!
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
In a nutshell from what I grasp: The goverment will be able to see any corrolation to a firing if you voted Union. Walmart fires employees if they find out you are voting Union. These votes are protected. They will no longer be protected and the employee can sue WalMart for illegal firings under the right to assemble ie: proving the employees allegations!

So what you are saying in a nutshell is that if we take away the right to a secret ballot and it is public knowledge which way you vote there will be no dirty business by the companies or the unions if they do not like the way you voted? Seriously that does not stand up to reason. You are trying to tell me Wal Mart is an evil company but at the same time if they know you voted for a union they would not find a way to take negative action against. I really have a hard time getting past this. Please help me understand. Just so I'm am clear I like Wal Mart. It is a great place to buy stuff. I live in middle America and I think you guys are making a mistake by attacking Wal Mart. I know people that love to work there. I would not work there even if it were union. When you have elitist like B. Hussein attacking a place that many people love to shop at and many people own stock in could backfire. We have to remember no one can force another to work for Wal Mart. No person could force me work for UPS. I work there because I choose to work there just like the people that work at Wal Mart choose to work at Wal Mart.

Anyhow I hope you can help me understand how the loss of a secret ballot could somehow be spun to a positive thing. You have come across as a champion for this so I do hope you understand why you want it. I know nothing about it but I would always lean towards the right for a secret ballot in any election.
 

paidslave

Well-Known Member
So what you are saying in a nutshell is that if we take away the right to a secret ballot and it is public knowledge which way you vote there will be no dirty business by the companies or the unions if they do not like the way you voted? Seriously that does not stand up to reason. You are trying to tell me Wal Mart is an evil company but at the same time if they know you voted for a union they would not find a way to take negative action against. I really have a hard time getting past this. Please help me understand. Just so I'm am clear I like Wal Mart. It is a great place to buy stuff. I live in middle America and I think you guys are making a mistake by attacking Wal Mart. I know people that love to work there. I would not work there even if it were union. When you have elitist like B. Hussein attacking a place that many people love to shop at and many people own stock in could backfire. We have to remember no one can force another to work for Wal Mart. No person could force me work for UPS. I work there because I choose to work there just like the people that work at Wal Mart choose to work at Wal Mart.

Anyhow I hope you can help me understand how the loss of a secret ballot could somehow be spun to a positive thing. You have come across as a champion for this so I do hope you understand why you want it. I know nothing about it but I would always lean towards the right for a secret ballot in any election.


I do agree in what you are saying but for some reason many believe this act it would make it be easier for workers to choose to unionize and not be fired harrassed or otherwise! This is a tool to help people to better themselves just like the teamsters we are all a part of!

Here is what the act states:

It’s Time to Restore Workers’ Freedom to Form Unions

America’s working people are struggling to make ends meet these days and our middle class is disappearing. The best opportunity working people have to get ahead economically is by uniting to bargain with their employers for better wages and benefits. Recent research has shown that some 60 million U.S. workers would join a union if they could.

But the current system for forming unions and bargaining is broken. Every day, corporations deny workers the freedom to decide for themselves whether to form unions to bargain for a better life. They routinely intimidate, harass, coerce and even fire workers who try to form unions and bargain for economic well-being.

The Employee Free Choice Act (H.R. 800, S. 1041), supported by a bipartisan coalition in Congress, would level the playingfield for workers and employers and help rebuild America’s middle class. It would restore workers’ freedom to choose a union by:

  • Establishing stronger penalties for violation of employee rights when workers seek to form a union and during first-contract negotiations. Providing mediation and arbitration for first-contract disputes.
  • Allowing employees to form unions by signing cards authorizing union representation.
 

paidslave

Well-Known Member
Who is McCain?

Union workers canvas against McCain

By Steve Gengler
Courier Times
September 4, 2008
Hours before John McCain gave his acceptance speech Thursday night at the Republican National Convention various local union members canvassed lower Bucks homes speaking to fellow union members about John McCain’s anti-union voting record. above Jeffrey Stafford (center), who is an 8th grade teacher in Philadelphia as well as a member of the Pennsylvania State Education Association, is greeted at his Levittown home by members of the Pennsylvania Association of Staff Nurses & Allied Professionals (left to right) Lower Bucks Hospital nurse Barbara Sullivan, PASNAP president Patricia Eakin, and PASNAP political coordinator Kathleen Casey. The three handed out information documenting John McCain’s anti-union voting record and rallied support for Obama. left State Rep Patrick Murphy spoke to the canvassers at the Boilermakers Union Hall in Levittown before the hit the streets.

Any Union Members think before you vote these are teachers and professionals speaking against MC Cain
Anti-Union Record!
:peaceful:

And for the record TIEGUY and OVER 95er are for an Anti-Union President!

I am sure TieGuy will want this post deleted too, so much for Democracy!


Steelworkers President To Palin: ‘Stop Using Your Husband’s Membership In The USW As A Prop’»

palin-w-hubby2.jpg
When Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) introduced Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate, he trumpeted her husband’s union membership: “The person I’m about to introduce to you was a union member and is married to a union member, and understands the problems, the hopes and the values of working people,” he said. That day, and again last night, Palin also emphasized that her husband is “a proud member of the United Steelworkers Union.”
Conservatives are hoping the reference will play well in Michigan and Ohio. But the United Steelworkers union (USW) isn’t so pleased. USW President Leo Gerard noted that just because Todd Palin is a union member doesn’t mean that Palin is automatically qualified to represent labor interests:
It is important to realize that while the governor’s husband is a member of a union, this does not automatically qualify her for an on-the-job training program to become a heartbeat away from the presidency. And while her husband is one of 850,000 dues-paying members of the steelworkers union, it does nothing to absolve Sen. McCain of his long history of anti-union sentiment and anti-worker actions.


Statement by USW International president Leo W. Gerard on John McCain's selection of Sarah Palin as his running mate:

“It is important to realize that while the governor's husband is a member of a union, this does not automatically qualify her for an on-the-job training program to become a heartbeat away from the presidency. And while her husband is one of 850,000 dues-paying members of the steelworkers union, it does nothing to absolve Sen. McCain of his long history of anti-union sentiment and anti-worker actions, including continuously pushing an anti-working family agenda that:

• Opposes giving workers the right to bargain collectively;
• Jeopardizes retirement security by privatizing social security;
• Further threatens job security by signing more job-stealing trade deals without regard to human rights and environmental standards, and
• Erodes the ability of working families to secure quality health care by taxing their employer-provided coverage for both active and retired workers.


McCain's choice is another example of his poor judgment and his desire to play politics as usual. McCain-Palin is not a team that works for working families. The first-term governor's record is thin and divisive. And John McCain has a life-long record of being for the rich and powerful. No union card can hide that - not any more than Ronald Regan's union card did."

If union workers are not convinced of McCain being Anti-Union then nothing will this is JOHN MCCAIN!
 
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tieguy

Banned
Who is McCain?

Union workers canvas against McCain

By Steve Gengler
Courier Times
September 4, 2008
Hours before John McCain gave his acceptance speech Thursday night at the Republican National Convention various local union members canvassed lower Bucks homes speaking to fellow union members about John McCain’s anti-union voting record. above Jeffrey Stafford (center), who is an 8th grade teacher in Philadelphia as well as a member of the Pennsylvania State Education Association, is greeted at his Levittown home by members of the Pennsylvania Association of Staff Nurses & Allied Professionals (left to right) Lower Bucks Hospital nurse Barbara Sullivan, PASNAP president Patricia Eakin, and PASNAP political coordinator Kathleen Casey. The three handed out information documenting John McCain’s anti-union voting record and rallied support for Obama. left State Rep Patrick Murphy spoke to the canvassers at the Boilermakers Union Hall in Levittown before the hit the streets.

Any Union Members think before you vote these are teachers and professionals speaking against MC Cain
Anti-Union Record!
:peaceful:

And for the record TIEGUY and OVER 95er are for an Anti-Union President!

I am sure TieGuy will want this post deleted too, so much for Democracy!


Steelworkers President To Palin: ‘Stop Using Your Husband’s Membership In The USW As A Prop’»

palin-w-hubby2.jpg
When Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) introduced Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate, he trumpeted her husband’s union membership: “The person I’m about to introduce to you was a union member and is married to a union member, and understands the problems, the hopes and the values of working people,” he said. That day, and again last night, Palin also emphasized that her husband is “a proud member of the United Steelworkers Union.”
Conservatives are hoping the reference will play well in Michigan and Ohio. But the United Steelworkers union (USW) isn’t so pleased. USW President Leo Gerard noted that just because Todd Palin is a union member doesn’t mean that Palin is automatically qualified to represent labor interests:
It is important to realize that while the governor’s husband is a member of a union, this does not automatically qualify her for an on-the-job training program to become a heartbeat away from the presidency. And while her husband is one of 850,000 dues-paying members of the steelworkers union, it does nothing to absolve Sen. McCain of his long history of anti-union sentiment and anti-worker actions.


Statement by USW International president Leo W. Gerard on John McCain's selection of Sarah Palin as his running mate:

“It is important to realize that while the governor's husband is a member of a union, this does not automatically qualify her for an on-the-job training program to become a heartbeat away from the presidency. And while her husband is one of 850,000 dues-paying members of the steelworkers union, it does nothing to absolve Sen. McCain of his long history of anti-union sentiment and anti-worker actions, including continuously pushing an anti-working family agenda that:

• Opposes giving workers the right to bargain collectively;
• Jeopardizes retirement security by privatizing social security;
• Further threatens job security by signing more job-stealing trade deals without regard to human rights and environmental standards, and
• Erodes the ability of working families to secure quality health care by taxing their employer-provided coverage for both active and retired workers.


McCain's choice is another example of his poor judgment and his desire to play politics as usual. McCain-Palin is not a team that works for working families. The first-term governor's record is thin and divisive. And John McCain has a life-long record of being for the rich and powerful. No union card can hide that - not any more than Ronald Regan's union card did."

If union workers are not convinced of McCain being Anti-Union then nothing will this is JOHN MCCAIN!

Its no secret that unions are for democratic leadership. Its also no secret that those unions will always accuse the republican candidate of being anti union. It is interesting to see Palin and her husbands relationship with unions. Its also interesting in your post to see a union chief whining because palin brags about her union affiliation. Other then that things are as they always are. Unions will support the democratic choice while many union members will vote for the republican candidate.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
That's hilarious, your dream canidate supports Obama.....you know the one with the hidden agenda....lol And I'm not so sure he wants to go with your gut feeling with Sarah Palin either.

The difference between you and me is that you are a true Democrat right to the bone. You don't look past the Democratic party.

I look at the choices and make my decision on what I feel is best for the country not just on which candidate represents the party OR what is best for me. I tend to lean toward some key issues that the Republican platform is for but there are other issues that I support that the platform does not support.

So I actually make a choice based on what my values are and which candidate most closely aligns with those values ... not some party.
 
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