you know what? we have it pretty good

[tieguy]

Sorry to disappoint - my management style was to run the business with my drivers and honor the contract. At the time, optional holidays were with management approval with a 7 day notice.
Once absenteeism was cleared up, the days were granted.

My intent was to get the group working as a team. Everyone needs to come to work everyday, as I was not going to plan on having sups run routes, unless absolutely necessary. As I stated, the problem cleared up and it was only 3 drivers out of 45 who caused the problems.

When I left the center, the Drivers threw me a party and told me I was the fairest manager they ever worked for. I still stay in touch with some of them and get Christmas cards during the holidays.

That in itself tells me I was successful in getting the drivers to work as a team and respect each other, along with management.

Good post and I think it highlights a good point that we don't often talk about. Many of our drivers do not define our being fair as meaning we are pushovers. They expect us to fairly hold the line on the BS that some drivers try to pull.

 

[tieguy]

"When I left the center, the Drivers threw me a party..."

OK, that was way over the edge. The drivers threw the center manager a party!?!?!? And send you Christmas cards?!?!?! Do you realize how rediculous that sounds? I think we'll just end right there....


Are you sure they weren't celebrating BECAUSE you were leaving???

is it that bad where you are?

 

[tieguy]

I appreciate all of your feedback on my mismanagement of optional days.

However, when drivers would voluntarily take a day off, and requested to get paid an optional holiday, I would honor that request without 7 days notice.

You see it was a two way street - not one way.

So I guess I didn't follow the contract in paying the driver at his/her request, either.

I also don't follow the contract when someone needs to move a vacation or when someone bids an optional holiday without the proper notice and either has a good reason for needing it or I grant it because I didn't allow the full 5 percent. Never get a grievance on that point either. We often fail to follow the contract to the benifit of the driver but I only get grief when its done to the detriment of the driver.

 

[westsideworma]

I also don't follow the contract when someone needs to move a vacation or when someone bids an optional holiday without the proper notice and either has a good reason for needing it or I grant it because I didn't allow the full 5 percent. Never get a grievance on that point either. We often fail to follow the contract to the benefit of the driver but I only get grief when its done to the detriment of the driver.

thats probably where the idea that when you help someone and they'll tell a friend, wrong them and they'll tell 10 comes from. People don't mind it when it goes in their favor but when it doesn't they make sure you and everyone else knows they're dissatisfied. Sometimes management doesn't give me what I would like (rarely), but I know they make every effort to make up for it at some point when this happens because I show up everyday and work hard. It goes the same for all the others that always give their best everyday.

I bitch and complain sometimes (who doesn't) but in all honesty I like the people there, including management (save for a couple...those no longer involved in operations...they've seemingly lost touch).

 

[DS]

All in all, being a driver for me has been a good job.You dont have anyone on your back all day,you make 100 decisions before most folks even take lunch.But one thing for sure,if someone in management doesnt like you,they can wreck your life in an instant.I`ve seen it time and time again,and I for one had it happen to me.Luckily my oncar sup at the time stood up for me and I got my job back before the union had the courtesy of responding to even one of my 15 phone calls.
Sure we have it good but there's a lot of room for improvement in the management department.I know there are a few drivers that like to stir up the crap,but get real,unless you are a seasoned driver,getting it done,and getting your whole break in is a daily challenge.
I`m worried about our pension.I dont like cat food.
I bet I could do 10 paper routes

 

[area43]

thats probably where the idea that when you help someone and they'll tell a friend, wrong them and they'll tell 10 comes from. People don't mind it when it goes in their favor but when it doesn't they make sure you and everyone else knows they're dissatisfied. Sometimes management doesn't give me what I would like (rarely), but I know they make every effort to make up for it at some point when this happens because I show up everyday and work hard. It goes the same for all the others that always give their best everyday.

I bitch and complain sometimes (who doesn't) but in all honesty I like the people there, including management (save for a couple...those no longer involved in operations...they've seemingly lost touch).

A good example of this is the start time. I believe they have to give at least a 24 hrs or longer notice of change. Lets say start time is at 845 and on a particular day the sort gets done at 840, so the sup says everyone change your start time to 840, Everybody is happy, no one complains. Then the next day the sort gets done at 850, sup changes the start time to 850. Whoa!!!!! everyone is pissed, wheres our 24 plus hour notice. What hypocrites. LOL Hey, Ill call a spade a spade. ( :

 

[westsideworma]

A good example of this is the start time. I believe they have to give at least a 24 hrs or longer notice of change. Lets say start time is at 845 and on a particular day the sort gets done at 840, so the sup says everyone change your start time to 840, Everybody is happy, no one complains. Then the next day the sort gets done at 850, sup changes the start time to 850. Whoa!!!!! everyone is pissed, wheres our 24 plus hour notice. What hypocrites. LOL Hey, Ill call a spade a spade. ( :

whats even better is when the driver starts at 7:45-8 (to do EAMs) and they neglect to tell the preloader.....yeah add to that this guy gets a huge bulk stop after break that is often stacked out. Its not my truck but damn that has to suck.

 

[SteveOUPS]

Virginia...........

Direct Deposit in the bank Thursday night. Live check folks get their money Thursday end of day.

5 Personal Days
5 Sick Days
5 weeks vacation now that I'm at 20 years.

Me to, in WV

 

[over9five]

"is it that bad where you are?"

No, it's not at all bad. I've seen a couple of exemplary CMs in my time with the company. And when it came their time to retire, I'd shake their hand and wish them the best.

But to here Channahon tell it, this came to mind:

A five star catered affair paid for (thrown by) the drivers.
Rose petals tossed before her footsteps.
Address books out for Christmas cards.
I can almost hear her drivers as they gather around her, champagne glasses held high, regaling her with renditions of 'For (s)He's a Jolly Good Fellow'.

Forgive me, Channahon, I'm sure you were a most excellent center manager, and you've added some great posts to the forum, but drivers do not throw parties for the center manager. Don't feel bad, this is the internet and everyone spins a yarn once in a while.

For this I threw down the BS flag.

 

[brazenbrown]

I appreciate all of your feedback on my mismanagement of optional days.

However, when drivers would voluntarily take a day off, and requested to get paid an optional holiday, I would honor that request without 7 days notice.

You see it was a two way street - not one way.

So I guess I didn't follow the contract in paying the driver at his/her request, either.

Excellent point!!

I honestly don't think you were mismanaging anything. Your two way street approach if done right makes things more flexible for both sides.

I know for a fact when life presents one of the many unexpected, " I gotta have the day off today moments" that getting a personal day and being allowed the day off goes along way for me.

Sometimes you can push the contractual stuff a little too hard and it can backfire on you , believe me, been there done that!

The team concept works best in my opinion especially in a center. What is it that they say, 90% of your problems are caused by 5 % of your people..

So if the team is functioning well with the two way street philosophy I'll bet some pier group pressure even comes into play which in turn helps both management and drivers.

What comes around goes around...

 

[705red]

I also don't follow the contract when someone needs to move a vacation or when someone bids an optional holiday without the proper notice and either has a good reason for needing it or I grant it because I didn't allow the full 5 percent. Never get a grievance on that point either. We often fail to follow the contract to the benifit of the driver but I only get grief when its done to the detriment of the driver.

Tie i just filled out the grievance form here for you, would you like to sign it or just rts it and i will see you at panel? I could mail you a copy whats your address?

 

[Brownnblue]

is it that bad where you are?

In a word, yes.

Tie, I disagree with you plenty. Chan, I disagree you plenty. But you would have our center manager beat by a county mile. Heck, you have some form of interpersonal skills.

 

[Brownnblue]

I am not sure if the other drivers would agree with me here, but I could not care less if the management team wants to pay me for a personal day. The day off is far more important than the eight hours straight time and four hours (or so) or overtime.

Here is an example. A number of years ago, my daughter was graduating from middle school. I requested the day off, but was denied and I was informed the day before. Now what do you think was more important to me, seeing my kid graduate, or a few bucks?

As an interesting (or maybe not so interesting) side note, my daughter was receiving some kind of special award on that night, however it was a surprise to all, only the staff of the school knew about it. It was a parochial school, and the principal told me later that many of the staff members were actually praying for me before the ceremony that I would be able to run the route off in time to see the award given.

 

[UPS Lifer]

"Made quite the statement in the center, as after a few denials with a 7 day notice, the absentee problem went away."

Wow, Channahon, I lost some respect for you on that one. Your management style was to punish your good people for the actions of some bad apples.

I can't imagine this tactic had a positive impact on morale, and I've never heard a driver tell another driver not to call in sick.

Over 9five,
I think you are being to critical of Channahon last post. Based on what she has written in the past you can be assured she would not intentionally punish good people. This is my opinion and I stand by it.

In the Western Conference you have to allow 15% of your folks off for any given week. I don't have a contract in front of me, but that is the rough idea. It is not specific on how you divie up the time off (option vs. vacation). As a Business Mgr, planning time off was a major part of the job.

I remember replacing managers and having to deal with problems like absenteeism and time off that was planned poorly. I have said this before...you got to walk a mile in the other person's shoes before passing judgement.

Here is where the real punishment comes in....Consolidating routes to cover for absenteeism because someone planned poorly and allowed too many drivers off on one day. Usually the whole center and our customers suffer because of that choice!!!

I would stake my reputation that Channahon was doing the right thing for her people.

 

[hoser]

Sorry to disappoint - my management style was to run the business with my drivers and honor the contract. At the time, optional holidays were with management approval with a 7 day notice.
Once absenteeism was cleared up, the days were granted.

So it's OK for a cop to break laws because it's in what he sees as the greater good? Let's say the cop arrests an abortion doctor and sentences him to death, to the townspeople's lauding. The town may love the cop and send him Christmas cards (while he's in prison), but does that make his actions ethical--or right--under the law?

Right actions are right, wrong actions are wrong. Justification for wrong actions does not make it right.

There's a contract, it has to be followed, like it or not. If a staffer requests optional days on a day where there's operational ability for the optional day to occur and he is following proper protocol, denying it because of what 'may happen' is unjustified. If a manager doesn't like the dynamic of a unionized environment, they should find a non-unionized environment to work in.

You see it was a two way street - not one way.

Making it a two way street is what makes your actions unethical! In this society, the onus is on the superstructure; you must be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, as a suspect in a crime you need not prove anything. To say that a suspect has to prove his innocence is just as ludicrous as suggesting that it's ok for an employee's rights to be negotiated apart of a 'two way street'

 

[hoser]

I also don't follow the contract when someone needs to move a vacation or when someone bids an optional holiday without the proper notice and either has a good reason for needing it or I grant it because I didn't allow the full 5 percent. Never get a grievance on that point either. We often fail to follow the contract to the benifit of the driver but I only get grief when its done to the detriment of the driver.

i see how you would perceive this to be unjust, but if the contract has sections which are loopholes or is subject to a blind eye from management, that doesn't make applications that hurt the employees any more justifiable.

the contract is for the employees, and is to be upheld by management. management turning a blind eye to contract provisions that would benefit an employee is of the fault of management and does not make deliberate circumventions of the contract by management any bit more acceptable. it's like saying (here's another legal comparison) that it's ok for a police officer to deliver five blows to the head with a shovel to a suspect accused of delivering five blows to the head with a shovel to another police officer the day before.

considering this in the light of the democratic legal spirit; employees are free to circumvent it (or break it) any way they wish, the onus of upholding the spirit of the contract and to curb circumvention of the contract (not the business operation) is on management.

The team concept works best in my opinion especially in a center. What is it that they say, 90% of your problems are caused by 5 % of your people..

So if the team is functioning well with the two way street philosophy I'll bet some pier group pressure even comes into play which in turn helps both management and drivers.

the team concept is nice, but it does not work for a unionized environment, let alone the UPS unionized environment. the team concept works incredibly well at FedEx Express, and it's the reason why they're not unionized nor will they become unionized. but in an environment where we have a contract, it doesn't work. that's the reality of unionized environments. i hate the teamwork card; the teamwork card is played to me by management when i initiate a grievance because it's an easy cop out for them to make me look like the dick.

to think that circumventing the contract 'for the benefit of the team' will help motivate a unionized environment and curb difficult-to-manage employees is not only preposterous, it's nearly impossible. unionized employees pay good money for the union, the company is willing to be subject to the union, but in return, the company will demand a lot out of the employees; which is perfectly fine; it's their business. however, insisting that employees should give more for the benefit of the company is the first sign of our rights slowly eroding at the front-line level.

 

[1989]

Hmm... In our area everyone gets two "Option Days" a year, but you can't use them as a sick day unless management decides to do you a favor. They're under no obligation to give it to you if you call in sick.

It's to managements benefit to give you an option day if you call in sick. It's a day they don't have to worry about giving out later in the year.

 

[hoser]

Sure we have it good but there's a lot of room for improvement in the management department.

i hear yah there!

4 out of every 5 managers UPS hires are very qualified and can handle the job. however, the entitiy that is UPS takes these qualified managers, handcuffs them, blinds them, beats the sh-t out of them, pushes them down a flight of stairs, then they pick this battered person up, dust him off, and say "ok go manage this ______! (sort/preload/driver area/office)"

the manager that screams at you has four other managers screaming at him, has no union protection, and has absolutely no empowerment to make his own or your own life at UPS easier.

...then this manager starts their official career at another company after five years of service, where they will be recognized, rewarded, motivated, and empowered.

 

[area43]

So it's OK for a cop to break laws because it's in what he sees as the greater good? Let's say the cop arrests an abortion doctor and sentences him to death, to the townspeople's lauding. The town may love the cop and send him Christmas cards (while he's in prison), but does that make his actions ethical--or right--under the law?

Right actions are right, wrong actions are wrong. Justification for wrong actions does not make it right.

Dude!!!!!!!! hose, I know where your coming from, be easy on my girl, Chan ( ;. Hose I have to ask you this? When you were a young buck, did you ever drive your rod like a maniac(dont say you dont, because if you drive your car like you ride that mtn bike, you must have a pile of tickets,LOL). Having said this, have you ever been pulled over for speeding or whatever and the cop let you off. It sure was nice, wasnt it? ( : ps hose, I feel sometimes Im walking in a minefield when I talk to you. Lol

 

[toonertoo]

Brownnblue, Im sure most everyone would agree with that. Even the manager who had to deny it. You cannot go to work and miss something you can never recover. You call off for personal, and thats the end of it. If it isnt a habitual thing, you are within reason. And you will never get a bit of grief. If you call off for every little doc appt or whatever, it becomes a problem. I can see both sides.

AS hoser said 4 out of 5 mgmt are fair, and probably the same among the hourly. And some push it to the limits because of protection, and the rest of us hourly suffer because of it.
I for one will work 12, to give a guy/girl the day off for important events. I used to have those, and I usually had a mgr who worked with me. But I have had the rare mgr, when my son came into town with my two grandsons, waiting at my house, at 7pm, I got in and had to go run another 40 from a route dumped earlier in the day. To me that was not fair, as there are several others who got in way before me that could have had those stops done and been in by the time I got in the first time.

But it happened and I dealt with it. Next time I had one of those occasions, call off for personal.