Youth Group Question From Last Night: God can’t allow sin into heaven? (OnTopic-No bible verses please)

imwell

imwell

I'm as productive as the methods allow.
BrownFlush said:
Most scholars in discussing verse 6 conclude this never happened. It was parabolic. It was told and written that way by the Holy Spirit to set the stage for us.
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Oh My Goodness ! Please be VERY, VERY CAREFUL with that. ANYTIME we subscribe ANY Theology that suggests that any part of God's Word "Never Happened", we are going down a very dark road. A road that Actually Walks Away FROM HIM. We are calling HIM a liar.
Now THAT"S just a little short of blasphemy (it may not even be short).

So Please! Be very careful of that type of theology/thinking.
 
zubenelgenubi

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
imwell said:
Oh My Goodness ! Please be VERY, VERY CAREFUL with that. ANYTIME we subscribe ANY Theology that suggests that any part of God's Word "Never Happened", we are going down a very dark road. A road that Actually Walks Away FROM HIM. We are calling HIM a liar.
Now THAT"S just a little short of blasphemy (in may not even be short).

So Please! Be very careful of that type of theology/thinking.
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The entire book of Job is fiction. Maybe based on a true story.
 
Integrity

Integrity

Binge Poster
imwell said:
The answer holds wisdom. So it does require a level of understanding to discern its application; but here it is:

"Just because we have the Right to do something, does not mean that it is the Right thing to do."

Can you "see" what that is saying ?

I do not mean to belittle, or insult, anyone. It's just that I have found, over the years, when I have shared this, it's returned with a healthy 50% "deer in the headlights" look: quickly followed by the words: "What does THAT mean???"

It's a "lens", one way of looking at the many decisions we make every day. But often, it is never used.
The world today (as a whole) does not teach this anymore. Not in academia. Not in the church.
I'm finding that it's quickly becoming a "lost lens".

So, again , to answer the young students question:

God Certainly "could" allow sin into heaven, But Would HE? Should HE? Is it the "Right" thing to do?

So, in HIS ultimate wisdom, whatever decision The Father would make, we can be assured that it IS
The Right Thing To Do.
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Got it. You say God could allow sin into heaven if he wanted, therefore the Yourh Pastor was incorrect in his teaching in the first post. Do I understand you @imwell correctly?

(Not suggesting that he is a false teacher, just in error in regards to his statement that confused the young person)
 
Integrity

Integrity

Binge Poster
Old Man Jingles said:
God can do whatever he wishes ... no man determines God's actions or thoughts.
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Got it. You say God could allow sin into heaven if he wanted, therefore the Yourh Pastor was incorrect in his teaching in the first post. Do I understand you @Old Man Jingles correctly?

(Not suggesting that he is a false teacher, just in error in regards to his statement that confused the young person)
 
S

SLW

Well-Known Member
BrownFlush said:
Job happened.
To say it was a maybe, why not say Noah or the Red Sea parting was a maybe?
Job takes the form of a historical poem in the opening scene but gets real fast.
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It's written as poetic dialogue and is grouped in with the other Wisdom books usually, but neither of these means it's not true. The fact that the LXX text gives Job's original name, origin, and genealogy indicates that it happened. However, it was written well after the fact, so "based on a true story" might not be wrong either.
 
Integrity

Integrity

Binge Poster
SLW said:
It's written as poetic dialogue and is grouped in with the other Wisdom books usually, but neither of these means it's not true. The fact that the LXX text gives Job's original name, origin, and genealogy indicates that it happened. However, it was written well after the fact, so "based on a true story" might not be wrong either.
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Not clear on you position, sorry.

Can God allow sin into Heaven if he wants?

What say you @SLW ?
 
B

BrownFlush

Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
SLW said:
It's written as poetic dialogue and is grouped in with the other Wisdom books usually, but neither of these means it's not true. The fact that the LXX text gives Job's original name, origin, and genealogy indicates that it happened. However, it was written well after the fact, so "based on a true story" might not be wrong either.
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zubenelgenubi said:
Maybe as in it's written in the style of fictional works of the era, but maybe entirely true.
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It’s the oldest book in scripture.
The Holy Spirit wanted us the have it.
Let’s get the numerous less out of it and go down the road.
 
S

SLW

Well-Known Member
BrownFlush said:
Short answer.
He will not allow what he doesn’t want.
And it does matter. It is against his nature and would make him a liar and the opposite of what is written.
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I agree with all of this. You can append it to my answer, too, @Integrity.
My "It doesn't matter" was about the question itself. It may be fun to debate and think about, but I don't think it is relevant to your life as Christian, and rather I think it's important not to get too caught up in these kind of linguistic and legalistic exercises.
 
Integrity

Integrity

Binge Poster
SLW said:
I agree with all of this. You can append it to my answer, too, @Integrity.
My "It doesn't matter" was about the question itself. It may be fun to debate and think about, but I don't think it is relevant to your life as Christian, and rather I think it's important not to get too caught up in these kind of linguistic and legalistic exercises.
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I understand what you are saying but in this instance it is not about linguistic and legalistic exercises, it is about a young person’s confusion brought on by 2 seemingly contradictory teachings.

But when teachers teach things that contradict themselves and as a result confuse the very young people who are being shared with, I think it is important to try to help clear up the confusion.

In this instance the confusion was clearly the result of two teachings about God that appear to be contradictory.
 
bbsam

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I seem to remember reading C. S. Lewis years ago and his description of sin seems appropriate here. I think he referred to man’s natural earthly instincts gone to the extreme. If that is the case, why would it be assumed that those same instincts would be active in heaven? They say, “you can’t take it with you”. That’s earthly possessions. But sin is directed toward earthly ends, is it not? Lust, greed, etc. So if the body is not in heaven, how would those natural world instincts be in play on the spiritual plane?

Of course the one sin, that of false pride, is a special case and perhaps is also in play here. It may be that God is unable to accept the spirit that does not concede his supremacy. In the abstract that seems like an awful low bar, but I have seen a lot of people who are terribly proud of themselves.
 
Integrity

Integrity

Binge Poster
bbsam said:
I seem to remember reading C. S. Lewis years ago and his description of sin seems appropriate here. I think he referred to man’s natural earthly instincts gone to the extreme. If that is the case, why would it be assumed that those same instincts would be active in heaven? They say, “you can’t take it with you”. That’s earthly possessions. But sin is directed toward earthly ends, is it not? Lust, greed, etc. So if the body is not in heaven, how would those natural world instincts be in play on the spiritual plane?

Of course the one sin, that of false pride, is a special case and perhaps is also in play here. It may be that God is unable to accept the spirit that does not concede his supremacy. In the abstract that seems like an awful low bar, but I have seen a lot of people who are terribly proud of themselves.
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Thanks for you contribution!!

So your verdict?

Can God allow sin into Heaven if he wants? Aye or Nay?

What say you @bbsam?
 
bbsam

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Integrity said:
Thanks for you contribution!!

So your verdict?

Can God allow sin into Heaven if he wants? Aye or Nay?

What say you @bbsam?
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I would say no. As I understand it, the denial of God is the one unforgivable sin. However, I think God has eternity to forgive the spirit to repent and the spirit has eternity to do so.
 
S

SLW

Well-Known Member
Integrity said:
I understand what you are saying but in this instance it is not about linguistic and legalistic exercises, it is about a young person’s confusion brought on by 2 seemingly contradictory teachings.

But when teachers teach things that contradict themselves and as a result confuse the very young people who are being shared with, I think it is important to try to help clear up the confusion.

In this instance the confusion was clearly the result of two teachings about God that appear to be contradictory.
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If it's a religious education type thing, I think the best answer for the guy would be to involve everyone a similar discussion to what we're having here, with your leader correcting anything outright heretical, maybe introducing other notable Christians' ideas like bbsam did, etc.

But there's no making an inherently confusing issue with no single correct answer into a simple yes or no. This will not be the last time it happens if he keeps digging into theology!
 
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