Abusing Part-Timers.....Again

[MrFedEx]

I never said they don't follow their PSP. IMHO they do follow that philosophy. Just my opinion. My point was that you cannot have one without the other two. They are not mutually exclusive, they are very intertwined.

They follow PSP? That's true, but only if the acronym actually stands for Profit, Service, People. When are all of you "believers" out there going to get a clue? You are completely disposable at any time, and all that matters any more is profit. Every once in awhile, they do let someone win a GFT or Open Door.....that way it appears that the process "works" and is fair, when it is anything but equitable.

Management holds all the cards...almost all the time. Unless you happen to be a minority or have caught them in some particularly bad breach of policy or the law, they've got all the power. HR simply backs-up management in the vast majority of cases.

A legitimate grievance process brings-in a third party that isn't management. That simply isn't the case with either the GFT or Open Door. I've got to say I don't know what to think of you quadro. Are you just one of the Kool-Aid crowd, or are you on here at the directive of FedEx?

If you're the former, I respect your opinion, but obviously disagree, and if you're the latter, the disinformation campaign really isn't working anymore. There are always a few who will "believe" despite the mountain of contrary evidence, but the folks I talk to aren't buying-it...at all. This isn't just my station, but from all over the country. FedEx is pretty much the same wherever you go, and the game is played by the same rules.

PSP is a joke, just a meaningless talking point that sounds good but has no merit or substance in fact. The FedEx PR machine is stumbling, fumbling. and running on 4 out of 8 cylinders these days, and as effective as this bunch of liars can be, they are losing the war.

 

[FedEx courier]

They follow PSP? That's true, but only if the acronym actually stands for Profit, Service, People. When are all of you "believers" out there going to get a clue? You are completely disposable at any time, and all that matters any more is profit. Every once in awhile, they do let someone win a GFT or Open Door.....that way it appears that the process "works" and is fair, when it is anything but equitable.

Management holds all the cards...almost all the time. Unless you happen to be a minority or have caught them in some particularly bad breach of policy or the law, they've got all the power. HR simply backs-up management in the vast majority of cases.

A legitimate grievance process brings-in a third party that isn't management. That simply isn't the case with either the GFT or Open Door. I've got to say I don't know what to think of you quadro. Are you just one of the Kool-Aid crowd, or are you on here at the directive of FedEx?

If you're the former, I respect your opinion, but obviously disagree, and if you're the latter, the disinformation campaign really isn't working anymore. There are always a few who will "believe" despite the mountain of contrary evidence, but the folks I talk to aren't buying-it...at all. This isn't just my station, but from all over the country. FedEx is pretty much the same wherever you go, and the game is played by the same rules.

PSP is a joke, just a meaningless talking point that sounds good but has no merit or substance in fact. The FedEx PR machine is stumbling, fumbling. and running on 4 out of 8 cylinders these days, and as effective as this bunch of liars can be, they are losing the war.

Quadro sounds just like someone that writes for the FedEx citizenship blog. I'm not accusing this person of being the same, just saying I noticed that.

 

[quadro]

MrFedEx and Fedex courier, I am simply another hourly employee. I know I'm a glutton for punishment posting here with my opinions but when the discussion is not about name-calling, it is actually interesting to see other peoples' viewpoints.

I understand that most people here, yourselves included, have a hard time respecting an opposing viewpoint. I'm not here for you, I'm here for me. So if I get something out of this then I'm happy. Doesn't bother me and I don't really care if you think I'm here at the directive of FedEx or that I write for the FedEx blog. Neither are true.

It is simply my opinion from my own experiences over 25+ years at FedEx, along with many people I know at FedEx, that FedEx does still strive to be a People company. Can they do better? Absolutely they can. I am simply not willing to give up what I have for what a union might get me.

And MrFedEx you are doing the same thing as Fedex courier vis-a-vis all management at FedEx is corrupt. Personally I think it's a little naive to assume that everyone from a manager up through the Sr VP are in cahoots and are all willing to put their jobs and the company at risk by ignoring policies and just making whatever decision they want.

Still curious to get an answer about the union grievance process. Can anyone file a grievance or does it have to go through the shop steward and they get to decide whether it gets filed or not?

 

[FedEx courier]

I don't have a hard time respecting an opposing viewpoint. The problem here is you don't even display that you have a viewpoint, you are regurgitating FedEx propaganda in such a generic way that it is difficult for anyone to believe you are an hourly employee. You admit you know nothing about the grievance process but tried to spread that a grievance never even has to be heard.

"I am simply not willing to give up what I have for what a union might get me."

I'm sorry but this statement is straight out of the spread the fear handbook. If you really want to be serious about this issue why don't you compare and contrast a similar Union job to the job that you currently have. Why don't you try and back up what you are saying if you are going to claim to respect everyone's viewpoints.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Still curious to get an answer about the union grievance process. Can anyone file a grievance or does it have to go through the shop steward and they get to decide whether it gets filed or not?

Grievances are filed through the shop steward who submits them on behalf of the grievant. It is not up to the shop steward to decide whether a grievance is valid or not but most experienced stewards should be able to assess the strength and/or weakness of a grievance. The steward then sits down with the center manager (Center Manager) to discuss the grievance and, if possible, resolve the issue without the grievance leaving the office. If that is not possible, the grievance is submitted and copies go to the applicable people, which include the union business agent and the company labor manager.

In our center, they usually wait until they get several grievances filed before calling a meeting to discuss them. (By "several" I mean up to 30 in some cases) The labor manager and the business agent will sit down and go through the grievances with the applicable contract language available to them and work to resolve them in as equitable a manner as possible. These meetings may or may not include the grievant and, if applicable, the member of mgt for whom the grievance was intended.

I have always found that open and honest communication between mgt and hourlies can resolve most issues without the need for a formal grievance. At least that has been my experience as I have filed a grand total of 1 grievance in my 21+ yrs and it was over a discrepancy in my vacation pay, which did not involve my local mgt team. And, yes, I won, but not nearly the amount that I thought I was entitled to.

 

[quadro]

I don't have a hard time respecting an opposing viewpoint. The problem here is you don't even display that you have a viewpoint, you are regurgitating FedEx propaganda in such a generic way that it is difficult for anyone to believe you are an hourly employee. You admit you know nothing about the grievance process but tried to spread that a grievance never even has to be heard.

"I am simply not willing to give up what I have for what a union might get me."

I'm sorry but this statement is straight out of the spread the fear handbook. If you really want to be serious about this issue why don't you compare and contrast a similar Union job to the job that you currently have. Why don't you try and back up what you are saying if you are going to claim to respect everyone's viewpoints.

My viewpoint that you seem to have missed is that I think FedEx does put People first and that I think the GFT process works. Not sure how you could say I haven't stated a viewpoint.

I didn't try to spread anything. I asked a question about the grievance process and UpstateNYUpser graciously answered in detail.

My statement that you quoted isn't out of any handbook. Good grief! It's a simple statement that everyone should be considering. If you are willing to give up what you have in the belief that a union will get you more, then vote for a union. If you are not willing then don't vote for a union.

If there was a similar union job to the one I have, I would compare it. UPS couriers work way harder than I do so I consider them similar in the same sense that McDonald's and Ruth's Chris are both restaurants. Not a very good analogy but it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

Interesting to see in UpstateNYUPSer's reply that grievances are often held until there are enough to have a meeting and that sometimes the employee isn't in the meeting. Very different to the GFT process where each complaint is heard individually and the employee is always part of the meeting.

And what do you want me to back up? Name it and I'll see what I can do.

 

[quadro]

GFT and Open Door are both a joke, and nothing more than an opportunity for the company to give your issue a legal review so they don't get sued. Neither is a legitimate grievance process. Why are you so trusting of this company? God....they screw you left and right and you still give them the benefit of the doubt. I'll bet Fred would like to clone you and make about 50,000 copies.

I have to confess I've never heard of the Ethics Line, but FedEx doesn't have any (ethics) so it sounds useless, kind of like GFT and Open Door.

I can honestly say that I've never been screwed by FedEx. I've gotten exactly what I thought I was going to get. When I thought I was treated unfairly by my manager and went through the GFT process, my director agreed with me. The situation actually ended up helping build a better working relationship between myself and my manager.

There should be a poster somewhere in your station with the info and tel# of the ethics line. If you don't have it posted, ask your manager, sr. manager, HR rep etc about it. I bet it gets posted pretty quickly.

 

[FedEx courier]

I can honestly say that I've never been screwed by FedEx. I've gotten exactly what I thought I was going to get. When I thought I was treated unfairly by my manager and went through the GFT process, my director agreed with me. The situation actually ended up helping build a better working relationship between myself and my manager.

There should be a poster somewhere in your station with the info and tel# of the ethics line. If you don't have it posted, ask your manager, sr. manager, HR rep etc about it. I bet it gets posted pretty quickly.

Yeah, I'll go up to my manager and ask what the easy way to complain about them is. I'll get right on that! Do you realize how silly that sounds, you shouldn't have to go through a manager to file a complaint.

 

[quadro]

Yeah, I'll go up to my manager and ask what the easy way to complain about them is. I'll get right on that! Do you realize how silly that sounds, you shouldn't have to go through a manager to file a complaint.

OK. Now I know you're pulling my leg because I just cannot see how you got that out of what I said. It's not that you don't have to go through a manager, you just simply don't go through a manager. It's an online process that goes directly to someone outside of your manager and sr. manager. If you are terminated then it is a paper process that gets sent directly to Memphis to corporate HR and employee relations.

 

[FedEx courier]

So I should go ask the manager where the information is and after they tell me file the complaint. Gee I get it know, that sounds like a totally anonymous process and I certainly feel safe doing that. Gee I'm sure if I get terminated those great HR reps in Memphis are going to be ready to jump up and help me out. I'm certain they will believe everything I tell them over what my local management team tells them. You have to be pulling everybody's leg here. Have you actually read any statements posted by employees on the internet or you just dismiss all of that information as some anti-PSP conspiracy theory?

 

[quadro]

So I should go ask the manager where the information is and after they tell me file the complaint. Gee I get it know, that sounds like a totally anonymous process and I certainly feel safe doing that. Gee I'm sure if I get terminated those great HR reps in Memphis are going to be ready to jump up and help me out. I'm certain they will believe everything I tell them over what my local management team tells them. You have to be pulling everybody's leg here. Have you actually read any statements posted by employees on the internet or you just dismiss all of that information as some anti-PSP conspiracy theory?

You're talking about two different things. First you were talking about going through the GFT process. Nothing about that is anonymous. If you want to remain anonymous then use the ethics line. There is or should be a poster in your station that gives you the phone number.
And once again, you've made a leap to the conclusion that everyone is out to get you. I'm not trained to help with paranoia. How do you know that that the HR reps won't help you out. I've seen people get their jobs back directly because of those Memphis HR reps.

If it's on the internet it must be true. Words to live by. But to answer your question, yes I've read some of the postings and no I don't think of them as anti-PSP conspiracy. I take them for what they are, one side of a story.

 

[FedEx courier]

It's hard to believe a company would go against itself in any decision, you obviously believe they would and they put their employees first at any cost. There seems to be no way to change your mind regardless of what you could be shown so it seems pointless. You have repeated this over and over in your statements in a round about way. Who isn't going to be paranoid as hell filing complaints against people who can doctor things up against you and get you fired. I was talking about what you said about asking a manager where the ethics poster was and then filing a complaint, do you think they aren't going to know who did it if you were to do that. If the GFT process is such a success in employee/company relations can you post any links to sources. Surely there is info of specific cases where it has been successful in such instances. You have already discredited any information on the web that points to the contrary but I will not do the same to your sources if you have any.

 

[quadro]

It's hard to believe a company would go against itself in any decision, you obviously believe they would and they put their employees first at any cost. There seems to be no way to change your mind regardless of what you could be shown so it seems pointless. You have repeated this over and over in your statements in a round about way. Who isn't going to be paranoid as hell filing complaints against people who can doctor things up against you and get you fired. I was talking about what you said about asking a manager where the ethics poster was and then filing a complaint, do you think they aren't going to know who did it if you were to do that. If the GFT process is such a success in employee/company relations can you post any links to sources. Surely there is info of specific cases where it has been successful in such instances. You have already discredited any information on the web that points to the contrary but I will not do the same to your sources if you have any.

It isn't about going against itself. It's about ensuring that policies and procedures are applied fairly and consistently. FedEx has everything to gain from ensuring that it's employees are treated equally. That's true for any business. And, please, stop twisting what I say. I never said that they put employees first "at any cost".

If the ethics poster isn't posted in your station, let me know and I'll personally give you the phone number. That way no one will know you asked about it. Exactly what is going to get "doctored up".

As for links about the success of GFT's. I'm not doing your research for you. You are not going to find anywhere near as many pros as you are cons simply because those employees who win a GFT realize the process works and move on. They don't go whining on the web. If I'm not mistaken, the GFT process one of the items noted in the Malcolm Baldridge Award and I also believe it comes up in some college classes related to HR and business but I'm not sure (so that's not a fact, just my opinion).

I didn't discredit what you've seen on the web, I simply said I take it in the context it's given so once again, please stop putting words in my mouth and twisting what I say.

 

[MrFedEx]

It isn't about going against itself. It's about ensuring that policies and procedures are applied fairly and consistently. FedEx has everything to gain from ensuring that it's employees are treated equally. That's true for any business. And, please, stop twisting what I say. I never said that they put employees first "at any cost".

If the ethics poster isn't posted in your station, let me know and I'll personally give you the phone number. That way no one will know you asked about it. Exactly what is going to get "doctored up".

As for links about the success of GFT's. I'm not doing your research for you. You are not going to find anywhere near as many pros as you are cons simply because those employees who win a GFT realize the process works and move on. They don't go whining on the web. If I'm not mistaken, the GFT process one of the items noted in the Malcolm Baldridge Award and I also believe it comes up in some college classes related to HR and business but I'm not sure (so that's not a fact, just my opinion).

I didn't discredit what you've seen on the web, I simply said I take it in the context it's given so once again, please stop putting words in my mouth and twisting what I say.

I've also been around for 20-plus years, and the employee usually loses in either an Open Door or the GFT process. My information is necessarily anecdotal because FedEx doesn't publish statistics for either. My guess is it wouldn't look very good for them.

That said, I actually do know someone who recently got their job back after a terminable offense, but that's pretty rare. Please tell me how a grievance process where management makes all the decisions is fair? Most of the time, the people I have known who've done either simply get the same policy quote thrown at them from each successive step of the food chain....and lose.

I tried a GFT once after being suspended when a customer physically threatened me, and I walked-off the premises without picking-up their pkg. In my opinion, I shouldn't have to suffer the threat of personal injury when I go to attempt a pickup. Management upheld my suspension all the way to the top, and essentially said that no matter how crazy the customer is (and this one was nuts), you must pick-up the pkg. Fair? No.

The next time I went to the same customer, he pulled the same exact crap, and I once again left without the pkg. When my manager called me into his office I simply dropped the business card of my attorney on his desk, turned around, and walked-out without saying a word. End of story. The GFT is worthless and completely biased in favor of management. Same for the stupid Open Door. Pure crap...both of them.

 

[quadro]

I've also been around for 20-plus years, and the employee usually loses in either an Open Door or the GFT process. My information is necessarily anecdotal because FedEx doesn't publish statistics for either. My guess is it wouldn't look very good for them.

That said, I actually do know someone who recently got their job back after a terminable offense, but that's pretty rare. Please tell me how a grievance process where management makes all the decisions is fair? Most of the time, the people I have known who've done either simply get the same policy quote thrown at them from each successive step of the food chain....and lose.

I tried a GFT once after being suspended when a customer physically threatened me, and I walked-off the premises without picking-up their pkg. In my opinion, I shouldn't have to suffer the threat of personal injury when I go to attempt a pickup. Management upheld my suspension all the way to the top, and essentially said that no matter how crazy the customer is (and this one was nuts), you must pick-up the pkg. Fair? No.

The next time I went to the same customer, he pulled the same exact crap, and I once again left without the pkg. When my manager called me into his office I simply dropped the business card of my attorney on his desk, turned around, and walked-out without saying a word. End of story. The GFT is worthless and completely biased in favor of management. Same for the stupid Open Door. Pure crap...both of them.

In a grievance process such as at UPS, who makes the decisions. Isn't it upper management? Surely it's not left entirely up to the union? While I understand people feel they need someone to represent them and I'm not questioning or debating that here, I am curious how the grievance process progresses in terms of who makes the decisions.

You know what they say about statistics. While you may be correct that statistics would show that more people loose a GFT than win, that doesn't say anything about why that is the case. Maybe more lose because the right decision was made the first time? In all honesty, is it more likely that a Fortune100 company like FedEx is going to say "we don't care if it's the right thing or not, just uphold managements decision even if it does expose us to large lawsuits" or is it more likely that FedEx is going to say "ensure the policy is applied fairly and consistently to protect the company from lawsuits"? Keep in mind, this is not saying that the policy is necessarily fair, just that it is applied fairly and consistently.

Just curious but why did the customer threaten you? I understand if you don't want to share if it was a unique situation that might give an indication as to who or where you are.

 

[MrFedEx]

In a grievance process such as at UPS, who makes the decisions. Isn't it upper management? Surely it's not left entirely up to the union? While I understand people feel they need someone to represent them and I'm not questioning or debating that here, I am curious how the grievance process progresses in terms of who makes the decisions.

You know what they say about statistics. While you may be correct that statistics would show that more people loose a GFT than win, that doesn't say anything about why that is the case. Maybe more lose because the right decision was made the first time? In all honesty, is it more likely that a Fortune100 company like FedEx is going to say "we don't care if it's the right thing or not, just uphold managements decision even if it does expose us to large lawsuits" or is it more likely that FedEx is going to say "ensure the policy is applied fairly and consistently to protect the company from lawsuits"? Keep in mind, this is not saying that the policy is necessarily fair, just that it is applied fairly and consistently.

Just curious but why did the customer threaten you? I understand if you don't want to share if it was a unique situation that might give an indication as to who or where you are.

The customer had a bad experience with FedEx and decided to take it out on me. We had screwed-up a delivery (not me) and it had caused him a lot of problems. I walk-in, he starts pitching a fit about how FedEx sucks, and I attempt to calm him down and explain that we occasionally make mistakes. Then he balls-up his fist and acts like he's going to hit me. That's when I left. He did essentially the same thing the second time I went back...crazy man.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

The customer had a bad experience with FedEx and decided to take it out on me. We had screwed-up a delivery (not me) and it had caused him a lot of problems. I walk-in, he starts pitching a fit about how FedEx sucks, and I attempt to calm him down and explain that we occasionally make mistakes. Then he balls-up his fist and acts like he's going to hit me. That's when I left. He did essentially the same thing the second time I went back...crazy man.

Based on what you have told us you did the right thing--escalating the situation would have only made it that much worse. No pkg (or job) is worth that kind of grief. He can bring the pkg(s) to the depot himself.

 

[MrFedEx]

Based on what you have told us you did the right thing--escalating the situation would have only made it that much worse. No pkg (or job) is worth that kind of grief. He can bring the pkg(s) to the depot himself.

My thoughts exactly, and it earned me an undeserved suspension.

 

[Artee]

I walk-in, he starts pitching a fit about how FedEx sucks

It seems to me you two would have some common ground right there and become lifelong buddies.

 

[MrFedEx]

It seems to me you two would have some common ground right there and become lifelong buddies.

Wow, another mystery appearance by you at an opportune time to defend Fedex. Did *** tell you to make a post or were you able to make the decision yourself? Regardless of my opinions on this site, I am absolutely professional when dealing with customers and never say anything derogatory about the company.