Amazon

MAKAVELI

Well-Known Member
AND....their workforce is nearly 50% temporary Oct-Jan. Amazon is a WORSE place for employees than FedEx.

I have also read bad things about working for Amazon, unless you're pretty far up the food chain. Sweatshop distribution centers with low pay and lousy working conditions. Sound familiar?
I bet bb is chomping at the bit to get a piece of that action.
 

Cactus

Just telling it like it is
I have also read bad things about working for Amazon, unless you're pretty far up the food chain. Sweatshop distribution centers with low pay and lousy working conditions. Sound familiar?

Sounds like FedEx Ground. Sweatshop on wheels.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Sounds like FedEx Ground. Sweatshop on wheels.

The Amazon drivers where I live make considerably more than $9 per hour. Sounds like Bezos has borrowed Fred's "market level" scam and applies it wherever he can. They also get benefits, which Ground doesn't.
 

TUT

Well-Known Member
The Amazon drivers where I live make considerably more than $9 per hour. Sounds like Bezos has borrowed Fred's "market level" scam and applies it wherever he can. They also get benefits, which Ground doesn't.

That could vary market to market, but what exactly does considerable equal?

Fedex looks like it is going cheap, but that is because they see the train coming and those companies pay cheap and have way less over-head. So fear and uncertainty seems to be driving Fedex. The markets are talking.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
I'm not an ISP or a contractor, I work for Ground. I don't "profit from the exploitation", I go to work and do a job just like you do.
Your pension is not gone. Those benefits are still there and you still get it when you retire. It is just no longer accruing and was replaced by an admittedly inferior PPA. If you're a legacy employee, you essentially have two pensions.
You complain about the heads of the company chasing the almighty dollar, but isn't that the whole point? Forget the purple promise and purpose statements and all that other stuff; people start companies to make money. If you invest a portion of your paycheck into stock, then you have a vested interest in the corporation doubling it's profits.

And even if none of that appeals to you, I had some 40+ year old folks in my classes during my college days... You can always go back, learn something new, and take on the world again. Somebody with a college degree shouldn't be a career courier. Better yourself, then better your life.

I'm trying to stay away from the forum but do want to answer this one. Yes, we still get the traditional pension but it's frozen with no possibility to increase it, no COLA to lessen the effects of inflation. The new pension pays considerably less and won't make up for what I had planned to be the foundation of my retirement. I did make a mistake quitting in 1997. Came back in '98 and was told I'd top out in 7 to 8 years. I've been in numerous locations with FedEx and heard this told over the years to newhires, including last year. I'd long since realized that they had no intention to honor that but am astounded that they have the gall to continue to say this. Not topping out in 7 to 8 years, nowhere near it after 14.5 years since rehired, has greatly reduced my ability to invest in the 401k, just like 10's of thousands of other midrange employees. Do you not see that there's something very flawed in lying to people get them to work for FedEx?

There is something very flawed in pushing people to accept less and less so that executives can cash in stock options and reap millions. Sorry if I included you in the exploitation, thought you were a contractor. And yes businesses exist to make money. We're all trying to make money to have a decent life. And in this economy the likelihood of a fellow in his late 40's landing a decent job after years of night school and college debt while working fulltime is slim. If there were great jobs to be had for everyone with a degree then there wouldn't be high unemployment. Millions with degrees are already seeking them out.

Are FedEx couriers not much more than fast food workers? When we are working in storms, blizzards, high heat, risking our necks do you think we are just service workers with no skills? Do you think the demands placed on us by the company to be ever more productive are experienced at McDonald's? The many hours spent away from our families at Christmas working ourselves to exhaustion doesn't warrant better pay? And why does the company have to lie to us over and over if everything is fine with their business model?

What you don't realize as a young woman is that many of us in our late 40's have begun to break down from decades of hard work. Our joints ache. Our backs and knees are bad. We develop Type 2 Diabetes and heart problems. We count on a decent pension and better pay as we enter our last productive years. And expect that in return for decades of hard work and faithful service. And what you don't seem bothered by is Corporate America has exchanged doing right by it's employees to instead use them and cast them aside. It's not the America I grew up in, and we deserve better.
 

Goldilocks

Well-Known Member
I'm trying to stay away from the forum but do want to answer this one. Yes, we still get the traditional pension but it's frozen with no possibility to increase it, no COLA to lessen the effects of inflation. The new pension pays considerably less and won't make up for what I had planned to be the foundation of my retirement. I did make a mistake quitting in 1997. Came back in '98 and was told I'd top out in 7 to 8 years. I've been in numerous locations with FedEx and heard this told over the years to newhires, including last year. I'd long since realized that they had no intention to honor that but am astounded that they have the gall to continue to say this. Not topping out in 7 to 8 years, nowhere near it after 14.5 years since rehired, has greatly reduced my ability to invest in the 401k, just like 10's of thousands of other midrange employees. Do you not see that there's something very flawed in lying to people get them to work for FedEx?

There is something very flawed in pushing people to accept less and less so that executives can cash in stock options and reap millions. Sorry if I included you in the exploitation, thought you were a contractor. And yes businesses exist to make money. We're all trying to make money to have a decent life. And in this economy the likelihood of a fellow in his late 40's landing a decent job after years of night school and college debt while working fulltime is slim. If there were great jobs to be had for everyone with a degree then there wouldn't be high unemployment. Millions with degrees are already seeking them out.

Are FedEx couriers not much more than fast food workers? When we are working in storms, blizzards, high heat, risking our necks do you think we are just service workers with no skills? Do you think the demands placed on us by the company to be ever more productive are experienced at McDonald's? The many hours spent away from our families at Christmas working ourselves to exhaustion doesn't warrant better pay? And why does the company have to lie to us over and over if everything is fine with their business model?

What you don't realize as a young woman is that many of us in our late 40's have begun to break down from decades of hard work. Our joints ache. Our backs and knees are bad. We develop Type 2 Diabetes and heart problems. We count on a decent pension and better pay as we enter our last productive years. And expect that in return for decades of hard work and faithful service. And what you don't seem bothered by is Corporate America has exchanged doing right by it's employees to instead use them and cast them aside. It's not the America I grew up in, and we deserve better.


:goodpost:
 

Operational needs

Virescit Vulnere Virtus
I'm trying to stay away from the forum but do want to answer this one. Yes, we still get the traditional pension but it's frozen with no possibility to increase it, no COLA to lessen the effects of inflation. The new pension pays considerably less and won't make up for what I had planned to be the foundation of my retirement. I did make a mistake quitting in 1997. Came back in '98 and was told I'd top out in 7 to 8 years. I've been in numerous locations with FedEx and heard this told over the years to newhires, including last year. I'd long since realized that they had no intention to honor that but am astounded that they have the gall to continue to say this. Not topping out in 7 to 8 years, nowhere near it after 14.5 years since rehired, has greatly reduced my ability to invest in the 401k, just like 10's of thousands of other midrange employees. Do you not see that there's something very flawed in lying to people get them to work for FedEx?

There is something very flawed in pushing people to accept less and less so that executives can cash in stock options and reap millions. Sorry if I included you in the exploitation, thought you were a contractor. And yes businesses exist to make money. We're all trying to make money to have a decent life. And in this economy the likelihood of a fellow in his late 40's landing a decent job after years of night school and college debt while working fulltime is slim. If there were great jobs to be had for everyone with a degree then there wouldn't be high unemployment. Millions with degrees are already seeking them out.

Are FedEx couriers not much more than fast food workers? When we are working in storms, blizzards, high heat, risking our necks do you think we are just service workers with no skills? Do you think the demands placed on us by the company to be ever more productive are experienced at McDonald's? The many hours spent away from our families at Christmas working ourselves to exhaustion doesn't warrant better pay? And why does the company have to lie to us over and over if everything is fine with their business model?

What you don't realize as a young woman is that many of us in our late 40's have begun to break down from decades of hard work. Our joints ache. Our backs and knees are bad. We develop Type 2 Diabetes and heart problems. We count on a decent pension and better pay as we enter our last productive years. And expect that in return for decades of hard work and faithful service. And what you don't seem bothered by is Corporate America has exchanged doing right by it's employees to instead use them and cast them aside. It's not the America I grew up in, and we deserve better.


​Amen!
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
Corporate America has exchanged doing right by it's employees to instead use them and cast them aside. It's not the America I grew up in, and we deserve better.

The money isn't there for what you're wanting.

GM, Ford, and Dodge were the epitome of good pay, benefits, and pensions; "doing right by its employees." Despite all the changes to the marketplace over time, they did right by their employees for decades and decades. They told their employees that things were changing and this couldn't go on forever; the employees agreed to some relatively minor concessions. Through it all though, they still did right by their employees.

Right into bankruptcy (except Ford, who came close).

Companies loaded up employees with benefits way back then under the assumption that the markup would always remain sky high on whatever they sold and that they'd always sell plenty of it. They learned the hard way how wrong they were.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
The money isn't there for what you're wanting.

GM, Ford, and Dodge were the epitome of good pay, benefits, and pensions; "doing right by its employees." Despite all the changes to the marketplace over time, they did right by their employees for decades and decades. They told their employees that things were changing and this couldn't go on forever; the employees agreed to some relatively minor concessions. Through it all though, they still did right by their employees.

Right into bankruptcy (except Ford, who came close).

Companies loaded up employees with benefits way back then under the assumption that the markup would always remain sky high on whatever they sold and that they'd always sell plenty of it. They learned the hard way how wrong they were.

people. The biggest reason GM and Chrysler went into bankruptcy was poor management. Ford had better management, provided a decent mix of better-quality cars people actually wanted to buy, and reworked their business model earlier than the other two. Just like FedEx, bad management sank the ship...not the workers. Now, go mop the floor.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
The money isn't there for what you're wanting.

GM, Ford, and Dodge were the epitome of good pay, benefits, and pensions; "doing right by its employees." Despite all the changes to the marketplace over time, they did right by their employees for decades and decades. They told their employees that things were changing and this couldn't go on forever; the employees agreed to some relatively minor concessions. Through it all though, they still did right by their employees.

Right into bankruptcy (except Ford, who came close).

Companies loaded up employees with benefits way back then under the assumption that the markup would always remain sky high on whatever they sold and that they'd always sell plenty of it. They learned the hard way how wrong they were.

I believe we've discussed here how the money isn't here to pay us like UPS drivers. But the money is certainly here to top us out in a reasonable amount of time, and to keep the traditional pension. Obamacare has given them the out to gut our insurance. If they tell us they can no longer afford the pension, for example, then tell Wall Street they'll almost double profits, they are lying to us. They are putting their stock options above taking care of their people.
 
I believe we've discussed here how the money isn't here to pay us like UPS drivers. But the money is certainly here to top us out in a reasonable amount of time, and to keep the traditional pension. Obamacare has given them the out to gut our insurance. If they tell us they can no longer afford the pension, for example, then tell Wall Street they'll almost double profits, they are lying to us. They are putting their stock options above taking care of their people.
Sounds like you guys need a union! I dont know how much freddie boy paid Hoffa to stay away??
 

Cactus

Just telling it like it is
The money isn't there for what you're wanting.

GM, Ford, and Dodge were the epitome of good pay, benefits, and pensions; "doing right by its employees." Despite all the changes to the marketplace over time, they did right by their employees for decades and decades. They told their employees that things were changing and this couldn't go on forever; the employees agreed to some relatively minor concessions. Through it all though, they still did right by their employees.

Right into bankruptcy (except Ford, who came close).

Companies loaded up employees with benefits way back then under the assumption that the markup would always remain sky high on whatever they sold and that they'd always sell plenty of it. They learned the hard way how wrong they were.

And you're still a suckass corporate apologist. The money is there only Fred and his cronies chose to hog it all for themselves. How else do you explain all the big salaries, bonuses and perks they're receiving on a continuos basis.

Fred and MT3 are telling you what to say and it's all BS. Now back to polishing Fred's car.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
people. The biggest reason GM and Chrysler went into bankruptcy was poor management. Ford had better management, provided a decent mix of better-quality cars people actually wanted to buy, and reworked their business model earlier than the other two. Just like FedEx, bad management sank the ship...not the workers. Now, go mop the floor.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

There are plenty of other examples of businesses with the same benefit structure who faced the same fate. Legacy costs are an absolute killer. Spin it however you want, but the cost of paying for a growing number of people who no longer work for the company will exceed the ability to pay. Especially in a competitive global economy. The big three flourished when there was no foreign competition and management was probably worse then than it was in later years.

It's not a question of management, but one of math.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
And you're still a suckass corporate apologist. The money is there only Fred and his cronies chose to hog it all for themselves. How else do you explain all the big salaries, bonuses and perks they're receiving on a continuos basis.

Fred and MT3 are telling you what to say and it's all BS. Now back to polishing Fred's car.

The money may be there now. That doesn't mean it will be there in perpetuity, which is what the old dinosaurs of the corporate world were banking on before they learned otherwise. The bonuses and so forth that people like you whine about are a drop in the bucket compared to the ongoing expense of legacy costs. If people like you ever figured out how to use a calculator....
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Whatever helps you sleep at night.

There are plenty of other examples of businesses with the same benefit structure who faced the same fate. Legacy costs are an absolute killer. Spin it however you want, but the cost of paying for a growing number of people who no longer work for the company will exceed the ability to pay. Especially in a competitive global economy. The big three flourished when there was no foreign competition and management was probably worse then than it was in later years.

It's not a question of management, but one of math.

Can we expect a talk about "legacy costs" in the near future? Maybe this is the new phraseology that is going to wake all of us hourlies up to what a great deal we're getting. You're so full of crap. FedEx has minimal retirement costs, especially in comparison to a high-wage, unionized company like GM or Chrysler. The job we do is not subject to foreign competition, so your head is up your ass on that one too. Until Fred can import Mexicans or Chinese to do our jobs, your statement is just plain false. FedEx has very low retirement costs, and they're getting proportionately lower with the PPP and many people walking out the door before they are even vested. Do your math.

When GM was restructured, the biggest impediment was an entrenched management bureaucracy that refused to see reality and required layers of approval for even the simplest decision. All lower-level and frontline decision-making was made the job of middle and upper-level management, mainly to justify their existence. Sound familiar?

MT3 says that his toilet is stopped-up...something about getting some bad truffles. Hop to it!
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
And you're still a suckass corporate apologist. The money is there only Fred and his cronies chose to hog it all for themselves. How else do you explain all the big salaries, bonuses and perks they're receiving on a continuos basis.

Fred and MT3 are telling you what to say and it's all BS. Now back to polishing Fred's car.

This is straight from the top BS. Expect your manager to start telling you all about "legacy costs" at Express very soon.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
What Dano is saying is that he is no longer drinking the purple kool-aid.

He is now smoking from the purple pipe.

I think he's smoking something else...under the desk. When FedEx dropped the Traditional Plan back in 2008, one of their main justifications was that they had to have a fully-funded pension plan under ERISA laws. This was very convenient for Fred, because he could point to some of the major airlines ditching their pension plans and claim FedEx was an "airline". Now, it looks like they're going to try and float "legacy costs". You know, those expensive "legacy couriers" who are making maybe $1700 per month (at most) on their pitiful Traditional Plan?

Let's see if they try and float this new turd.
 
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