An Inconvient Truth: Obama is a Democratic Socialist

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Hoaxster, Nov 25, 2011.

  1. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    any on the left try to evade the truth about Obama, Pelosi and their believers but they are modern day Socialists in the vein of the Western European Socialist Democracies.
    For some reason they feel that this inconvenient truth will hurt their chances of getting Obama re-elected.
    These Obama apologists refer to outdated, arcane definitions of Socialism as defined by early and mid-1800s civic theorists such as Marx. That type of Socialism as defined by Marx is now referred to as Communism.

    From
    Socialist state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    ... Modern Socialist government, which generally refers to a liberal democratic state presided over by an elected majority socialist party that is not, or does not necessarily have to be, pursuing the development of socialism; the state apparatus is not constitutionally bound to an eventual transition to socialism. Non-statist socialists such as anarcho-socialists, libertarian socialists and Council communists reject the concept of a "socialist state" altogether, believing that the modern state is a byproduct of capitalism and cannot be used, or is not required, to establish a socialist system.

    A perhaps too brief and concise modern definition of Socialism is:
    Socialism is when a government protects the freedom of and offers services to its people.
    But it is a starting point.

    Countries in Western Europe openly refer to themselves as Socialists and their political parties as Socialists.

    The UK, France, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Italy, Spain, Portugal to name a few, have declared themselves to be Socialist states and have been ruled by Socialist Parties.

    One country that is and that many people on the left and the right don't like to have it called a capitalistic/Socialist country, is the United States of America.

    Why is this understanding important?

    Many of the Western European countries are abandoning many of their Social programs because they don't work and are not sustainable.
    Portugal ousted their Socialist party earlier this year and until 4 days ago, Spain was ruled by their Socialist party.

    I, for one, am glad to live in a Socialist society with a Capitalistic/Socialist form of government.
    It is not perfect and needs lots of tweaking but that's why the people we elect into office need to be fully understood in what their visions are.

    I don't believe the "more" Socialist countries such a
    s we see in Europe represents the model that is best for the long-term economic health of the USA or the freedom and pursuit of happiness by its citizens. Obama is clearly a follower of these European style Socialist political parties and desires to change the USA to that style of government/society.

    There are political hacks, main stream media and even a few people on Brown Cafe that want to distract you by referring to archaic, arcane and obsolete definitions of government types to keep people from referring to Obama as a Socialist and the fact that he wants to change the USA to a Western European style Capitalist/Socialist society.

    These are my thoughts on this topic.

    What are your thoughts on this Inconvenient Truth about the Change that Obama wants to bring to the USA?
     
  2. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    Is Roosevelt a socialist? Kennedy? Nixon? Bill Gates? Hoffa? I think we know where you would draw the line. Just to the left of Herman Cain.
     
  3. klein

    klein Für Meno :)

    Europe brought the 40 hr work week ! If you don't want it, then get rid of it !
    They also brought you old age security such as medicare and medicaid.

    It's your country - get rid of vacation pay, 40 hr work week, minimum wages.
    Let the 1800th century begin , again !

    I just watched a TV show yesterday about Mombia (formally known as Bombay, India).

    They only have 50% of the population set up with running water and toiletts, while the rich district has it all (the rich district, as in IBM, microsoft, Apple, and many more huge companies that have corperate offices there).

    Nothing has really changed since it was a British Colonly in the 1600 to 1900 hundreds.

    They are a part of the BRIC Nations, yet they don't even have toilettes for everyone ?

    My brother (currently visiting me) and I watched that show last night - told him, that's how Right wingered Americans want their country to become.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2011
  4. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    Once again, we live in a Corporatocracy, where large businesses control the government and represent the antithesis of Socialism. No elected majority governs our affairs, because our votes mean nothing when politicians are bought and sold like commodities. Simple reality. We elect people who then do the bidding of their corporate masters. Does that sound like Socialism to you?
     
  5. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    I stated earlier which you read earlier and replied to that I considered Bush Jr a Socialist.

    Bill Gates is not running for political office so I don't consider him anything.

    Hoffa - being elected to the head of the Teamsters makes him a Politician in a sense. I think American Unions almost by definition are Socialist in nature but not a very good form of Socialism (ask klein to explain).

    I think your question is disingenuous or just poorly thought out. What a thoughtful person would have asked is for me to rank and maybe rate the people you mentioned in terms of how strong a Socialist they are.

    I'll pretend you are a thoughtful person and make an attempt at how strong a Socialist - most Socialist listed first and least last.

    Marx
    Engels
    Lenin
    Stalin
    Hitler
    Degaulle
    Anthony Crosland
    Obama
    Roosevelt
    Kennedy
    Nixon
    Mitt Romney
    Herman Cain
    Rick Perry
    Newt Gingrich
    Ron Paul
    Thomas Jefferson
     
  6. klein

    klein Für Meno :)

    Exactly, that is how America is operated these days.
    Let the big corperations decide how the country moves on, so they themselves can profit the most out of it.
    Those big corps don't even need to invest and create jobs anymore - they get all the rules/laws they need to earn all the big bucks without it.

    That's why America is going down, while bringing up an excuse Europe is no better off.
    Well, gee, only a couple of countries have the amount of GDP debt ratio higher than that of America.
    ATLEAST, Europe is smart enough to send out warning signals well in advance, unlike the US.
     
  7. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    Wow. Just plain wow. Your decision to ignore history fascinates.
     
  8. curiousbrain

    curiousbrain Well-Known Member

    Hoaxster, you are obviously an intelligent person. I don't say this because I feel the need to inform you of things you already know, but rather because I feel the need to question the motive behind why you would ask this question in the first place?

    As an intelligent person, you can play out how this conversation will go in your mind, without actually having to watch it play out. Some will swing to the left, some will swing to the right; some will agree, some will disagree. There will be a few, such as myself, who will pretend to take the abstract "high ground" and judge while trying not to be judged.

    Point being, an intelligent person (which you obviously are) knows this is inflammatory, political, rhetoric. Why, sir?
     
  9. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    I just pray that he is not re-elected.
     
  10. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    Because it is inflammatory, political rhetoric.

    That is the nature of the Current Events Forum. No post on here is supposed to be taken seriously but rather to generate strong emotional responses. Don't come to Current Events if you desire meaningful, rational and logical conversation with posters taking the time to present their arguments in a thoughtful, logical manner although there are some responses and posts that do fit this criteria.
    It is a place where people come to throw barbs back and forth with very little dialogue or thoughtful responses.


    Now, for the real reason I posted, is because I do think Obama is a Socialist in the manner that West European government leaders that call them selves Socialists. They take pride in this descriptive label (as does Bernie Sanders -the Senator from Vermont). Even though these people call themselves Socialists, perhaps the best phrase to use is Democratic Socialist.

    Every time I call or refer to Obama as a Socialist, Democratic Socialist, or a Capitalistic Socialist, I get these Obama apologists on here saying I'm stupid, I'm ignorant, I don't know what I'm talking about.

    So I took the time to lay out the logic as to why I refer to Obama as a Socialist. Perhaps a Democratic Socialist would be more correct and that was part of the reason for this thread - "what to call Obama that describes his tendencies towards the West European Socialist Democracies".

    And BTW, I don't totally disagree with the all of the Social Programs prevalent in West European Democracies and not even National Healthcare program here in the US. The big question is how does the government pay for all these Social programs.

    Do you have a word or phrase that would describe Obama's tendency and actions to recreate (CHANGE) the US to resemble the West European Democratic Socialist governments?
     
  11. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    I fixed it for you! :wink2:

    This is what irritates me the most about you and TOS and MFE - you just make some snide remark and do not try to argue your point and present your logic and convince others.

    This is why you and the others get no respect from me.
    You never develop any argument or line of thought.

    These could actually some interesting discussions in this forum if it wasn't just a mindless exchange of inept remarks and cartoons back and forth.
     
  12. curiousbrain

    curiousbrain Well-Known Member

    Forgot where I was; point taken.
     
  13. klein

    klein Für Meno :)

    Name me a European Socialist country that can deduct mortgage interest payments ?
    None !

    But, yeah, if you have enough money to own or buy a house - then social programs need to kick in, right ?
    Just like your healthcare .
     
  14. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member


    Sorry, I don't understand your point. Please expand your thoughts.
     
  15. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    Just go be a Canadian and don't worry your head about what we do.
     
  16. klein

    klein Für Meno :)

    In Canada or Europe you can't deduct housing mortgage payments.
    Also, in the US, the only people that enjoy cheap or free healthcare, are the ones like you (UPS and union).
    You pay healthcare insurance before taxes, while other Americans need to pay health insurance after taxes (from net pay).

    Is that fair ?
     
  17. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    So you think $1577 a month for healthcare is cheap ?????????? !!! That's what I pay....at least until one of us turns 65 soon. So don't be bitchin' because we get to deduct some loan interest or whatever.
     
  18. klein

    klein Für Meno :)

    That is cheap to what it will be in 7 years... by then it will double in the US.
    But it's ok, free ER Care for all ! :sick:
     
  19. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    I don't even know what you mean when you say "free ER care for all".
     
  20. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Anyone can go to any ER and receive stabilizing care before being transferred to another facility whether they can pay for that care or not.