Arizona's anti-imigration law...

[soberups]

Sheriff Joe's tent city was featured on this week's episode of Policewomen of Maricopa County. They were covering the jailers there.

The guys in that jail all behave like a-holes. They get treated well as long as they follow orders. It's jail, not the 4 Seasons. One guy was arguing with a woman jailer about his haircut not being to "standards".....he was an idiot.

You watch some of that program and you'll see the element AZ. is dealing with .....CA. too.

I have no problem with the idea of convicted criminals being made to live in tents in 100+ degree heat.

I do have a problem with people who have only been charged with a crime and are awaiting trial being made to live in such conditions. Until convicted, they are guilty of nothing more than being unable to afford bail and they do not deserve to be treated like that in order to further Sherriff Joe's desire for publicity.

 

[Lue C Fur]

I have no problem with the idea of convicted criminals being made to live in tents in 100+ degree heat.
I have no problem with that either and the pink jumpsuits are a nice touch.

I do have a problem with people who have only been charged with a crime and are awaiting trial being made to live in such conditions. Until convicted, they are guilty of nothing more than being unable to afford bail and they do not deserve to be treated like that in order to further Sherriff Joe's desire for publicity.
I agree, your innocent untill proven guilty and if you cant afford bail then a regular jail cell is fine.

 

[moreluck]

Living in the tent city was actually portrayed as a step up from the regular lockdown. Inmates smell fresh air and hear birds sing. If they don't follow the rules, they 'roll up' and go back to lockdown.

It is definitely hard to look tough in pink!

 

[wkmac]

Neither is slavery but it happened and it is history.

Unintended Consequences of History?

What is happening now is not the same thing.

Really? Go back 170 years and were the roles kinda reversed at the time? Maybe them dumb Mexicans are a lot smarter than we give them credit for!

And if these illegals are getting freebies from the government, are they doing so by the point of the gun or are they just taking advantage of what the Gringo gov't openly gives them and who elected these idiot, sellout gringos?

BTW: I believe Arizona is free to make this choice not that I agree with it because it opens so many slippery slopes. But I also believe the US gov't and it's drug policy and economic policy has made things vastly worse and it's so easy to just blame the poor sole on the bottom of the ladder.

But then we Americans have never been known to have the guts to look in the mirror so we just grab the closest scapegoat and there you go!

 

[dilligaf]

I have no problem with the idea of convicted criminals being made to live in tents in 100+ degree heat.

I do have a problem with people who have only been charged with a crime and are awaiting trial being made to live in such conditions. Until convicted, they are guilty of nothing more than being unable to afford bail and they do not deserve to be treated like that in order to further Sherriff Joe's desire for publicity.

That's not necessarily true Sober. I don't know what the stats are but I'm sure of one thing, in some cases if not many there is no bail to be had because the judge feels that these alleged criminals are a risk.

 

[dilligaf]

Unintended Consequences of History?




Really? Go back 170 years and were the roles kinda reversed at the time? Maybe them dumb Mexicans are a lot smarter than we give them credit for!

And if these illegals are getting freebies from the government, are they doing so by the point of the gun or are they just taking advantage of what the Gringo gov't openly gives them and who elected these idiot, sellout gringos?

BTW: I believe Arizona is free to make this choice not that I agree with it because it opens so many slippery slopes. But I also believe the US gov't and it's drug policy and economic policy has made things vastly worse and it's so easy to just blame the poor sole on the bottom of the ladder.

But then we Americans have never been known to have the guts to look in the mirror so we just grab the closest scapegoat and there you go!

Interesting points.

 

[1989]

I have no problem with the idea of convicted criminals being made to live in tents in 100+ degree heat.

I do have a problem with people who have only been charged with a crime and are awaiting trial being made to live in such conditions. Until convicted, they are guilty of nothing more than being unable to afford bail and they do not deserve to be treated like that in order to further Sherriff Joe's desire for publicity.

Bail? trial? Just get a couple busses and hire Dog to send them south. Maybe 5 days holding, max.

 

[wkmac]

Interesting points.

I can appreciate the situation the folks along the border contend with and the frustration that comes with it. What I think we all lose sight of is the fact that both the Mexican and US govt's have screwed things up and the average folk on bothsides of the border suffer as a result when all most of us want to do is live our lives and raise our families by the best means we can. I was reading about NAFTA and the supposed jobs to be created in Mexico with one idea that it would stem illegal immigration. What ended up happening was those "promised" jobs eneded up in Asia, specifically China and some of that was trade offs on the diplomatic front that I think if you followed had more to do with them buying our debt. That's my opinion anyway.

I'm not anti-China (fact is I wanna go there and visit) or anti-Asia but if I was gonna use diplomacy on an economic scale to shift jobs (another means of wealth re-distribution via gov't intervention IMO) I'd try and keep the jobs at least next door and for a variety of reasons too. There's a movie out called Food Inc. which you can watch for free on the Net. What you think of the whole movie is up to you but watch the part where it talks about the illegal immigrate workers. And then watch another net freebie "The World According to Monsanto" and see what's happening again with the small Mexican farmer. If we run them off their land in the name of the mighty dollar, we in effect kill their independent businesses, with no other employment options, where would you go in search of work?

Not every illegal immigrate is a murderous, drug dealer so let's step back and start looking at the whole picture and at root causes and then see what picture starts to develop. Have we ever thought about how US Corporate welfare via our tax dollars we pay harm farmers in developing countries? And let's not even mention this is as much wealth redistribution as any welfare program you'll ever see.

And isn't this contary to the idea of free markets? How can we expect 3rd worlds to reject socialism and adopt Free(d) Markets when we don't do likewise? Are we not the hypocrits now?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

UpState , with all due respect, maybe you should either learn more about the issue or refrain from comment. Why would Sheriff Joe becoming Governor of Az worry you one bit?

Tex, you know that I also respect you, which is why I will refrain from commenting any further in this thread.

I'm out.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Lifer, relax. I have said repeatedly that I am not that familiar with this issue and was simply giving my take on it. I would guess that my opinion may change if I were subjected to the fallout from illegal immigration as both you and Dilli are.

My son just pulled in the driveway so I am out. Dave.

You are right - I am passionate about this subject and get hot way too easily... I apologize. I grew up in California and spent all my life with Americans from Mexican descent. We have the same family values and more things in common than not. However - my whole life I watched Southern California become overtaken by Mexican nationals who feel they have a right or entitlement to be in our country illegally. Some actually believe that the gringos stole this part of the country from Mexico. I have a problem with this. I have no problem with doing things the right way - the legal recourse. In fact, I have helped a few become naturalized citizens and was happy to help.

California's problem is two fold. There is an influx of Asian nationals and Mexican nationals. The city I grew up in Monterey Park, is unrecognizable (predominantly Asian). I can't read any of the signs. There are other cities were everything is in Spanish. The state is broke and cannot assimilate any more illegals.

People keep forgetting that there are only enough goods and services to go around and then your quality of life deteriorates. California is breaking at the seams. The problem is the scale has tipped to the illegal side and there is no way to stop it.

Arizona is not that broken yet but the crime and violence is spilling over from Mexico and can no longer be contained with the law enforcement personnel we have. We need immediate help to stop the super highway flow of aliens.

In Arizona, the cost of education - healthcare - incarceration is $700 per legal household

Some stats from ImmigrationCounters.com for USA

Money wired to Mexico since 2006 - $29 Billion +
Money wired to latin America since 2001 - $259 Billion +
Anchor babies born since 2002 - 4.9 million +
Illegal Aliens incarcerated 420,000 +
Fugitives 740,000 plus
Skilled Jobs provided to Illegal Aliens - 11.5 million

These are the things I would do if I had the power to fix this.

Secure the border - Complete fence and more border agents - in mean time - National Guard troops secure border 24 hours a day. More towers at border - line of sight with sophisticated sighting equipment. Towers in secondary strategic positions to support front line of defense. Better and more sophisticated monitoring at border entrances to USA. Helicopter patrols increased until flow of illegals is all but eliminated.

Detain for 30-60-90 days and deport all illegals suspected of criminal activity - create criminal electronic background check and put these people on a "Do Not Enter" List -

Create a realistic Guest Worker program - must pay taxes - most be sponsored - must show proof of medical and car insurance. Electronic and ID profile tied to IRS records. Must understand that all children born in this country are not automatic citizens prior to parent becoming a citizen - (no more anchor babies) All resident and non residents ( even children) must carry identification or proof of status while in the USA. These forms of IDs could include ID bracelets or Dog Tags (with bar codes) as well as ID Cards or Green Cards. Children would be issued ID tied to a parent or legal guardian so status could be checked in electronic records. All records are updated based on expiration of status.

All illegals go to the back of the pack but have a chance to gain citizenship after paying a fine to be determined through statistical analysis of realistic costs of illegal immigration for a period of 5 years - This is a one time chance with a one year limit to respond to. Those who volunteer to register rather than being apprehended face a reduction of penalties and move ahead of any apprehended illegal who is not involved in criminal activity other than their illegal status.

Continue to allow the current allocation of naturalized citizens.

As for entitlement programs. With legal status - you must be able to provide for your family, show proof of insurance etc. so not to be considered a burden on citizens, otherwise you get deported along with your family. Your electronic profile is tied to your IRS status and so are your entitlements. Any person or family considered a burden to the state is deported and must reapply for citizenship.

Just a few ideas.

 

[UPS Lifer]

I have no problem with the idea of convicted criminals being made to live in tents in 100+ degree heat.

I do have a problem with people who have only been charged with a crime and are awaiting trial being made to live in such conditions. Until convicted, they are guilty of nothing more than being unable to afford bail and they do not deserve to be treated like that in order to further Sherriff Joe's desire for publicity.

Let me preface this.... I don't have any compassion for suspected criminals OR convicted criminals, but I also don't disagree with your take except for Sheriff Joe's desire for publicity. He does not give two hoots about publicity except the kind of publicity that scares the hell out of the criminal. The only publicity he wants, is to see the criminals fleeing Maricopa County. His no nonsense approach to crime suppression and incarceration has generated this reputation and created the publicity good and bad. He continues to get re-elected by wide margins though they are getting smaller now. Look at this guy - He does not care what he says - how he says it or how he looks when he says it.

He is being dragged to the mic by both sides. He would rather not be sitting in front of a mic and be out with his Crime Suppression Unit making busts. He is my hero! If we had more cops like him we could all walk out at night without any fear for our safety. I am betting that most of us can't say that right now.

In Arizona, we see him just about daily on the news. He has done a lot of good for the county on cost control. He has done good things for the inmates at his jails also. He is tough on the inmates too but he treats everyone the same. His goal is too make sure these inmates don't want to come back to his jail system. But I also have not heard a lot of negative talk about him from the inmates (who get interviews) either.

 

[Lue C Fur]

Anti-imigration protestors and congressman arrested:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/01/immigrant-activists-plan-dozens-marches-nationwide/

Can you imagine if they were Tea Party protesters that got arrested...it would be front page news: "Racist Tea Party Terrorists arrested"...LOL

 

[Babagounj]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/03/bigotry-label-for-thee-but-not-for-me/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/opinion/commentarySTEYN: Bigotry label for thee, not me


By Mark Steyn
As I write, I have my papers on me - and not just because I'm in Arizona. I'm an immigrant, and it is a condition of my admission to this great land that I carry documentary proof of my residency status with me at all times and be prepared to produce it to law enforcement officials, whether on a business trip to Tucson or taking a 20-minute stroll in the woods back at my pad in New Hampshire.
Who would impose such an outrageous Nazi fascist discriminatory law?
Er, well, that would be Franklin D. Roosevelt.



That's Arizona. To the coastal commentariat, "undocumented immigrants" are the people who mow your lawn while you're at work and clean your office while you're at home. (That, for the benefit of The New York Times' Linda Greenhouse, is the real apartheid: the acceptance of a permanent "undocumented" servant class by far too many "documented" Americans who assuage their guilt by pathetic sentimentalization of immigration.) But in border states, illegal immigration is life and death. I spoke to a lady this week who has a camp of illegals on the edge of her land. She lies awake at night, fearful for her children and alert to strange noises in the yard.
President Obama, shooting from his lip, attacked the new law as an offense against "fairness." Where's the fairness for this woman's family? Because her home is in Arizona rather than Hyde Park, Chicago, she's just supposed to get used to living under siege?

 

[Lue C Fur]

17 Illegal Immigrants caught in connection for the shooting of a deputy. There was also shots fired at police helicopters:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/0...igrants-caught-search-ariz-deputys-attackers/

 

[trplnkl]

Tex, you know that I also respect you, which is why I will refrain from commenting any further in this thread.

I'm out.

UpState, I would have much preferred you learn more on the issue, as it does effect you and your area in the grand scheme of things.

 

[trplnkl]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/03/bigotry-label-for-thee-but-not-for-me/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/opinion/commentarySTEYN: Bigotry label for thee, not me


By Mark Steyn
As I write, I have my papers on me - and not just because I'm in Arizona. I'm an immigrant, and it is a condition of my admission to this great land that I carry documentary proof of my residency status with me at all times and be prepared to produce it to law enforcement officials, whether on a business trip to Tucson or taking a 20-minute stroll in the woods back at my pad in New Hampshire.
Who would impose such an outrageous Nazi fascist discriminatory law?
Er, well, that would be Franklin D. Roosevelt.



That's Arizona. To the coastal commentariat, "undocumented immigrants" are the people who mow your lawn while you're at work and clean your office while you're at home. (That, for the benefit of The New York Times' Linda Greenhouse, is the real apartheid: the acceptance of a permanent "undocumented" servant class by far too many "documented" Americans who assuage their guilt by pathetic sentimentalization of immigration.) But in border states, illegal immigration is life and death. I spoke to a lady this week who has a camp of illegals on the edge of her land. She lies awake at night, fearful for her children and alert to strange noises in the yard.
President Obama, shooting from his lip, attacked the new law as an offense against "fairness." Where's the fairness for this woman's family? Because her home is in Arizona rather than Hyde Park, Chicago, she's just supposed to get used to living under siege?

Bravo Baba, great find in this article....... All you folks that are against this new Az law, please read this article two more times...I mean REALLY read it.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

UpState, I would have much preferred you learn more on the issue, as it does effect you and your area in the grand scheme of things.

The only effects up here are the illegal import of untaxed cigarettes and drugs, although most of those come up from the south.

 

[dilligaf]

The only effects up here are the illegal import of untaxed cigarettes and drugs, although most of those come up from the south.

You are fortunate Dave, that the crime and violence that we witness here on a daily basis hasn't affected your beautiful state. I hope it stays that way for you and your kids and everyone else there. I'm about 4 hours north of the border so I don't see as much of it as Phoenix and Tucson do, but it is still prevelant here. The drugs, the gangs. I go to Mexico every year and for the most part the Mexicans are kind, considerate and hard working people. But there are bad ones, just like in every culture. It has gotten so bad that the Mexican government has implemented a safe zone from the border to Rocky Point. It's about a 60 mile corridor that is patrolled by the Mexican Federales to protect Americans traveling to Rocky Point. Seeing an armed transport of about 10-15 Federales with AK-47's is scary but knowing why they are there is even scarier. Even the Mexican government has lost control of what is going on, if they ever really had control.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Dilli, I never said that the whole state was unaffected. I live in the upper NE corner of the state about 5 hours north of NYC. We are just now beginning to experience some of the effects of the drug trade. We had a meth lab busted last year, we have stabbings and murders, but none of the border turmoil that you and Lifer have described.

 

[wkmac]

Dilli, I never said that the whole state was unaffected. I live in the upper NE corner of the state about 5 hours north of NYC. We are just now beginning to experience some of the effects of the drug trade. We had a meth lab busted last year, we have stabbings and murders, but none of the border turmoil that you and Lifer have described.

In my neck of the woods, most Meth lab busts are people one gene ahead of the same folks featured in the movie Deliverance!


Read this article recently about Mexico and it's drug problems.