Avatar -Science Fiction or Disgrace ?

island1fox

Well-Known Member
Avatar,
Great special effects. Why did Hollywood have to Spin their Liberal Message of America the evil, Corporate greed, Imperialism,Killing of our Green Planet and Showing the majority of our military and Marines as blood thirsty killers of women and children? :angry: In a time of war -when so many of our young are sacraficing so much ---SHAME on Hollywood.
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
Avatar,
Great special effects. Why did Hollywood have to Spin their Liberal Message of America the evil, Corporate greed, Imperialism,Killing of our Green Planet and Showing the majority of our military and Marines as blood thirsty killers of women and children? :angry: In a time of war -when so many of our young are sacraficing so much ---SHAME on Hollywood.

Was it any good? I went to try and catch it at the IMAX and they were sold out. I am on the fence about going to the trouble to watch it.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
I would have a problem watching any movie about 10 ft. blue people.......I need reality!! Papa Smurf didn't do it for me either.

Give me comedy/romance, the old guy/girl story of relationships and how they work or don't work. IE: Meet the Parents, Along Came Polly, Sweet Heart Alabama, etc.
 

island1fox

Well-Known Member
Was it any good? I went to try and catch it at the IMAX and they were sold out. I am on the fence about going to the trouble to watch it.

av8torntn,
The movie had great special effects --no doubt about it. I am really not "thin skinned" --an underlying liberal message would not bother me --but I truly feel that Hollywood went out its way to portray America as the EVIL empire. I left the movie not in a very good mood. I would not have spent the twenty bucks to get in --if I would have known. Also it was very long and dragged on a little after the first two hours.
Maybe I am very "old fashioned" but give me Cagney singing "over there" if it is a film about our troops.:wink2:
 
av8torntn,
The movie had great special effects --no doubt about it. I am really not "thin skinned" --an underlying liberal message would not bother me --but I truly feel that Hollywood went out its way to portray America as the EVIL empire. I left the movie not in a very good mood. I would not have spent the twenty bucks to get in --if I would have known. Also it was very long and dragged on a little after the first two hours.
Maybe I am very "old fashioned" but give me Cagney singing "over there" if it is a film about our troops.:wink2:

I believe you are incorrect in your statement on one fact. It was James Cameron,not Hollywood, who produced this film and it`s message. he has openly admitted the parallel story to Americas invasion of Iraq. Don`t take it as an insult,man has been warring and pillaging against his neighbor long before there was an America.
 

island1fox

Well-Known Member
I believe you are incorrect in your statement on one fact. It was James Cameron,not Hollywood, who produced this film and it`s message. he has openly admitted the parallel story to Americas invasion of Iraq. Don`t take it as an insult,man has been warring and pillaging against his neighbor long before there was an America.

cach,
Not looking to give you a hard way to go --James Cameron --Famous Hollywood movie maker -married to a Hollywood star --Not Hollywood ???:wink2:
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
The story looks to be pretty cliche and preachy, but I will probably go see it just for the special effects.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
One Review

December 21, 2009

Avatar Is Great and Libertarian

Posted by Stephan Kinsella on December 21, 2009 01:38 PM
My wife and I saw Avatar this weekend in 3D. Here’s the verdict: four out of four stars. Absolutely amazing special effects–best I’ve ever seen; fun story; all in all a very fun, nice movie.
And at its core it was very libertarian: it was about a group of people (the Na’vi) defending their property rights on the world Pandora from aggressors (the human invaders), and about one of the humans (a soldier named Jake Sully) deciding to join and help the right side. Sure, the movie has some stilted dialogue in parts, and a few cliched scenes (I liked how the evil military commander referred to their outrageous assaults on the Na’vi as “shock and awe,” but his telling the troops that they would “fight terror with terror”–when the Na’vi had not really been shown to have done anything characterizable as terrorism–was a bit of a stretch in its attempt to dig at the current American “war on terror”), but overall it was great and fun, and libertarian. And the passion and vision and craft that has gone into this movie is amazing to behold. Cameron is to be commended for this great work of art.
Ignore the cynics–such as Peter Suderman on Reason’s Hit & Run blog who accuses Avatar of “anti-corporate clichés and quasi-mystical eco-nonsense”. Nonsense. Libertarians are not anti-environmentalism, for one; property rights are the only way to protect the environment. As for “quasi-mystical”–I can’t say much without spoiling, but the various beliefs of the Na’vi are perfectly grounded in reason and reality, as the movie shows. As for anti-corporate–nonsense.
And the “corporation” here is basically a mini-state, or an arm of a state–it has an army going around killing and destroying (Lester Hunt makes this point here). In fact, in the review of the leftish Mark Kermode of the BBC, he just calls the bad guys the military; even he is not taken in by the corporate facade. And the libertarian hosts of Free Talk Live (12/19/09 episode) get it right too: the plot is about property rights. In particular, the property rights of the Na’vi, in an established tree-city that they have clearly homesteaded. The Na’vi are not just some uncivilized savages as some curmudgeonly reviewers imply; they live they way they do because of the wondrous bounty of their strange world and some unique features it has–which, again, I can say little of without spoiling, but suffice to say it’s grounded in reality and extrapolative science fiction, not some quasi-mystical nonsense. They even have a sophisticated homesteading technique worked out for ownership of the wild, pterodactyl-like creatures known as Banshee or ikran. In addition, the main Na’vi character, Neytiri, although she is betrothed to another Na’vi, is permitted to change her mind and choose someone else–respect for individual choice and autonomy.
As for the 3D: the 3D was well done, not over-used, and did add depth to the picture. It’s worth seeing in 3D if you go to the movies. That said, I don’t think it adds much. Avatar will still be great on HD home theater systems in Blu-Ray or HD. Note: we intentionally avoided the IMAX version because I assume the image has to be cropped (left and right sides chopped off) to fit IMAX’s different aspect ratio.

Another review

December 21, 2009

If Only ‘Avatar’s’ Writer/Director Believed in What He Created

Posted by David Kramer on December 21, 2009 09:36 PM
I just got back from seeing Avatar. (Although the movie is very beautiful, I didn’t find the script quite as compelling as Stephan did.) I wanted to make a point though about the man who wrote and directed the film—James Cameron. While Stephan is absolutely correct that the movie makes a “dig” at our current war on terrorism, Cameron only meant the “dig” for the Iraq war. As you can hear in this NPR interview, the left-wing Cameron believes in his Master O-bomb-a’s view that the Afghanistan war is a “just” war.
I also think that knowing Cameron’s mindset (remember the “evil” rich people in Titanic?), the movie can be seen by some as a “dig” against corporations—but Stephan is correct when he writes that you absolutely have a sense that the indigenous people are fighting for their property. I do like the fact that the movie shows the military as absolute monsters. And it also shows the horrors of a big corporation/government partnership. (I guess things don’t change much 150 years from now.)
I agree with Stephan about not worrying whether or not you see it on IMAX, or even in 3D. I saw it in 3D and the process didn’t do much for me. The movie is definitely worth seeing for the visual artistry alone.
Go see it and enjoy it.

If it wasn't for the special effects (always better on the big screen) I'd wait for the DVD but as is I'll probably go over the next few weeks to check it out myself. I am also interested in the storyline from a property rights perspective having heard of this angle before the movie was released. On the primacy of property rights, sounds like I'm pulling for the Na'vi.

The animation reminds me to much of artist Roger Dean who did the album covers and set designs for the band Yes as well as album covers for the band Asia. As much as I'm interested in special effects and the storyline however that works out, I'm also interested in the movie as a fan of Roger's artwork.
 

JimJimmyJames

Big Time Feeder Driver
The story looks to be pretty cliche and preachy, but I will probably go see it just for the special effects.

Ditto :happy2:.

Also, ditto on the Roger Dean reference :happy2:.

As a person who (and sometimes only with hindsight, unfortunately) has not agreed with any "war" (remember, none of them were declared) we have been involved in since WWII and who does believe that corporate America and the military must be viewed with suspicion, I think I will view the message of the film sympathetically.

And, believe it or not, I consider myself to be a conservative.
 

diesel96

Well-Known Member
Who care's..... what happened to the good ole' days when we rolled a "fatty" right before going into the movie theater and enjoyed a futuristic special effects movie ? ... please, if a fictional movie is capable of influencing you to the point of making life altering changes than maybe you ought to stay home read a book instead....
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Ditto :happy2:.

Also, ditto on the Roger Dean reference :happy2:.

As a person who (and sometimes only with hindsight, unfortunately) has not agreed with any "war" (remember, none of them were declared) we have been involved in since WWII and who does believe that corporate America and the military must be viewed with suspicion, I think I will view the message of the film sympathetically.

And, believe it or not, I consider myself to be a conservative.

Jim,

It's long but check out Dr. Murry Rothbard's circa 1965' article, Left and Right: The Prospects for Liberty. I think from your POV and now looking back nearly 45 years at Rothbard's observations, his comments might prove most worthwhile. Like myself when I read it, there should be several "AH-HA" moments.

I've no doubt Cameron has something in mind and yes preachy may in fact be the word but this nation and it's principles were founded on the Lockean ideal of property rights and thus the inalienable rights of the individual so any movie that forces us to face how we violate the very principles this nation was founded on IMO has good merits to it! So-called conservative decry the so-called liberal for his zeal of gov't in taking property domestically at will (property being not just physical property but in Lockean tradition all that the individual produces is property as well) for public purposes and yet the conservative doesn't decry his own efforts to do the same on the international stage under the veil of nationalism by using the guise and excuse of societal security. (Again, read Rothbard above)

I can see exactly where many conservatives and even liberals might object to the root message of property rights in Avatar (something about looking at yourself) and I'm not so sure Cameron completely sees this for what it is. Hope I'm wrong about him however. Looking forward to seeing the movie!
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Who care's..... what happened to the good ole' days when we rolled a "fatty" right before going into the movie theater and enjoyed a futuristic special effects movie ? ... please, if a fictional movie is capable of influencing you to the point of making life altering changes than maybe you ought to stay home read a book instead....

Oooo! Such hostility! Sounds familar so let's make a quick change and marvel at the similarities.


Who care's..... what happened to the good ole' days when we rolled a "fatty" right before going into the movie theater and enjoyed a futuristic special effects movie ? ... please, if a fictional movie is capable of influencing you to the point of making life altering changes than maybe you ought to stay home read a book instead....

Jim,

See Rothbard's point?
:wink2:
 

diesel96

Well-Known Member
Honey, I don't think you were able to smoke what D was talking about, at least not legally!

:happy-very:

deez......we were able to smoke both in the movie theaters and hospitals !!

what ???....who's talking tabacco...lol :bloodshot:


Jim,

It's long but check out Dr. Murry Rothbard's circa 1965' article,

Ha Ha....JJ's got homework from Kmac...lol:wink2:

Oooo! Such hostility! Sounds familar so let's make a quick change and marvel at the similarities.

Hostility ?...If I came across as hostel, I'm sorry, or, are you a little senitive today Kmac ? I thought you'd be able to read into my opinion and agree....instead your comparison of me to Tieguy was a complete 180' degree turn around......I just don't find the big deal of getting worked up'ed over a Sci Fi movie...but, I do recall the movie, V for Vendetta, had a very profound affect on you. So I guess I should tone it down for you movie buffs...:wink2:
 

tieguy

Banned
Avatar,
Great special effects. Why did Hollywood have to Spin their Liberal Message of America the evil, Corporate greed, Imperialism,Killing of our Green Planet and Showing the majority of our military and Marines as blood thirsty killers of women and children? :angry: In a time of war -when so many of our young are sacraficing so much ---SHAME on Hollywood.

I don't know why you're beating yourself up I like your avatar.:happy-very:
 
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