Barney Frank

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
TRP,

lets start with one thing from this point. You said "I didn't see where Bush ORDERED Fannie and Freddie to do anything"

This is not true ( no fault of your own )

Maybe you missed where BUSH ordered BOTH Fannie and Freddie to set aside 440 billion dollars to cover loans to low income buyers and low income buyers with bad credit.

Watch the video again, listen carefully, then, in one of the white house documents, it states the same thing. Bush clearly asks both friend and friend to make these loans, in addition, he asks the mortgage writers and banks to make loans easier for people with bad credit.

Watch it again, see if I am wrong.

peace.
 

Lue C Fur

Evil member
Lets try having a discussion without name calling. At the end of the day, I believe I can show you the facts on how BUSH created the housing mess starting in 2002 until today.

This comming from you>>>WTF? Are you smoking and drinking the same crap as your BFF Klein? Show some facts on your accusations and lies that you have spewed. You know...Laura Bush and accusing me of having another screen name. Run away TOS...Run away.

 

island1fox

Well-Known Member
TOS,
Bush was guilty of contributing to the bad policies that had been put into place over 60 years ago. He is very guilty of trying to claim credit for these policies before the disaster.

You seem to forget the origins of Fannie and Freddie, you ignore the CRA, you ignore the red lining lawsuits and threats to the banks by Attorney General Reno with the help of Acorn and Obama in June of 1994,
You ignore Clinton and his dreams and speechs on home ownership and the elimination of Glass/Steagle on his watch.

You ignore the Congressional hearings during the Bush Administration with the Black Caucus preventing any reigning in of Fannie and Freddie. You ignore Maxine Waters, Charles Schumer, Cris Dodd, N.Y.Congressman Meeks and Barney singing the praise of Johnson and Raines and the success of Fannae and Freddie.


An honest debate without right or left wing Kool aid drinkers would obviously show that many politicians right and left for their own power and parties sold us down the river.

For you to blame Bush for the mess as Obama does cannot be seen by Non partisan people as honest --just left spin which is just as bad as right spin.

I am not a Bush Cheerleader and still today would remove troops from EVERYWHERE around the world to take care of America first.

Many Liberals think with their hearts and are not bad people --but decisions and social engineerining projects that are instituted with the best of intentions have hurt all of us -BIG TIME.

Saying Bush did it or Obama did it or Clinton did it would only be PARTIAL TRUTH. I try to live in the world of REALITY. Most politicians live in a fantasy word --Right and Left -I will not cheerlead for either side.
Call it like I see it. You are MUCH smarter than that. The person in the mirror will tell you the truth --look in her eyes once in a while--a really good person is in there.:wink2:
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
WOW, we have a course correction comment from one of the biggest hijackers of all threads.

Give me a break.

Peace.
I don't hijack....for example: somebody mentions ice cream in a Newt Gingrich thread......then I'm all about ice cream and I comment on the subject that was brought up.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Freddie......... Freddie the Freeloader is one of my favorite Red Skelton characters. ( see, you brought up Freddie....therefore, this isn't a hijack!!)
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
TOS,
Bush was guilty of contributing to the bad policies that had been put into place over 60 years ago. He is very guilty of trying to claim credit for these policies before the disaster.

You seem to forget the origins of Fannie and Freddie, you ignore the CRA, you ignore the red lining lawsuits and threats to the banks by Attorney General Reno with the help of Acorn and Obama in June of 1994,
You ignore Clinton and his dreams and speechs on home ownership and the elimination of Glass/Steagle on his watch.

You ignore the Congressional hearings during the Bush Administration with the Black Caucus preventing any reigning in of Fannie and Freddie. You ignore Maxine Waters, Charles Schumer, Cris Dodd, N.Y.Congressman Meeks and Barney singing the praise of Johnson and Raines and the success of Fannae and Freddie.


An honest debate without right or left wing Kool aid drinkers would obviously show that many politicians right and left for their own power and parties sold us down the river.

For you to blame Bush for the mess as Obama does cannot be seen by Non partisan people as honest --just left spin which is just as bad as right spin.

I am not a Bush Cheerleader and still today would remove troops from EVERYWHERE around the world to take care of America first.

Many Liberals think with their hearts and are not bad people --but decisions and social engineerining projects that are instituted with the best of intentions have hurt all of us -BIG TIME.

Saying Bush did it or Obama did it or Clinton did it would only be PARTIAL TRUTH. I try to live in the world of REALITY. Most politicians live in a fantasy word --Right and Left -I will not cheerlead for either side.
Call it like I see it. You are MUCH smarter than that. The person in the mirror will tell you the truth --look in her eyes once in a while--a really good person is in there.:wink2:

Island,

Again, lets put the talking points away and deal with reality. You said BUSH only used policies that were in place for 60 years? Seriously? What policies? Clinton nor Barney Frank had ANYTHING to do with zero downpayments. Clinton nor Barney Frank had anything to do with arranging with friend and friend 440 billion dollars for low income loans or low income bad credit loans. Clinton nor Barney Frank had anything to do with removing the "barriers" of home ownership.

The only spatter of truth to your statements are that every president since 1900 has run on a platform of home ownership. Clinton helped to make affordable homes available but he NEVER advocated zero downpayments, interest only loans, loans to bad credit risks, loans to low income minorities to the tune of 1.5 million blacks and 1.5 million hispanics.

IT was BUSH who advocated for all the things that went wrong in the housing bubble. You dont possibly believe all the loans that went bad are loans written in the 1990's do you?

You couldnt be that naive? The loans that are imploding were written between 2002 and 2007. These loans mainly consist of interest only loans that are "resetting" and those resets are too high for the home owner to afford.

Its really simple math Island, a three year interest only loan written in 2002 would reset in 2005, those people made money because they were ahead of the curve. A three year interest only loan written in 2005 is belly up now and foreclosed upon. What you are seeing today are the 5 year and 7 year interest only loans exploding in front of our faces. Like landmines, they were created after 2002 and before the bubble burst.

As these loans collapse, they are taking the whole market with them. You havent seen the last of foreclosures. We still have 10 year interest only and 15 interest only loans to mature and face resets, those will crush the housing market once again.

In all the cities that had housing booms, interest only loans made up the largest percentage.

For those that dont understand how an interest only loan reset works, ill explain.

You take out a 5 year interest only loan at 6% in 2004. You put no money down. The loan would then be written as a 80/20 loan with a first and second. In 2009, that loan will mature, and depending on the loan a large balloon payment (usually 15K) would be due in cash and the terms of the loan change to "PRIME" plus 2%. "Prime" is set at the time of the writing of the loan.

So, in 2009, you have to pay 15K in cash and on your first, the % goes to 8% and on the second (second is always 1.5% higher 7.5% plus 2%) and that makes the second 9.5%.

On a 400K home, the payment will jump from 3000 a month to over 5K a month.

This mathematical problem makes the problem serious when the homes value has dropped severely. People in this mess have NO OPTIONS. They could try and:

1) sell the home at a huge loss and pay the difference in cash
2) ask the lender to short sale the home
3) apply for a modification through the federal goverment
4) or re finance after paying the difference in cash between the new appraised value and balanced owed.

What this buyer CANT do is :

1) sell the home for what is owed.
2) refi the home for what is owed.
3) Have the interest rate changed.

Once buyers are in this mess, they simply walk away and leave the house and file for BK.

This is the reality of the BUSH Home Ownership society. Bush brags about the millions of homes sold after the introduction of his program to america and its those same millions that are foreclosing today.

There is no secret behind this. Its simple math.

Peace.
 

island1fox

Well-Known Member
:peaceful:Tos,

I am sure you can convince yourself on anything!!!

It is sad when anyone gets so blinded by politics and partisanship that they only experience partial and incomplete lives.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
:peaceful:Tos,

I am sure you can convince yourself on anything!!!

It is sad when anyone gets so blinded by politics and partisanship that they only experience partial and incomplete lives.

Island,

what is truly sad is when people hang themselves onto misinformation and political rhetoric to suit their needs. The truth is the truth. If you cant handle the truth, just say so.

Peace.
 
TRP,

Cmon brother, are you really going to play this game? If you didnt read those things, then, you didnt read all the documents i posted. Those are WHITE HOUSE documents, not some left wing site filled with nonsense.

In the video itself, BUSH states he asked Freddie and Fannie to MAKE LOANS to people with BAD CREDIT... CLEAR AS A BELL. How could you have missed that? Selective hearing?

Near the end of the video, BUSH says that a "BARRIER" to home ownership is BAD CREDIT, but he was GOING TO REMOVE that "BARRIER" because a person with bad credit deserves a home just like anyone else!

Those are HIS words, not mine.

Lets agree to discuss this issue one item at a time. PICK a topic about home ownership where YOU feel Barney Frank did something, show what he did and Ill counter you with a direct action of GW BUSH.

Lets try having a discussion without name calling. At the end of the day, I believe I can show you the facts on how BUSH created the housing mess starting in 2002 until today.

Peace.
I did read all the documents as I said, I didn't say I watched the video because I didn't watch it or the other vids about Frank in this thread. In the white house docs, there was no mention of ordering anyone to do anything, encourage was the word. Encourage does not mean order. I saw no mention of approving bad credit in the white house memos, did you? Did either of the down payment acts passed include overlooking bad credit? Things said in a speech aren't law just because they were spoken. Is there somewhere in you data base that shows he made official demands to over look bad credit, a written mandate, a signed law?
 
TRP,

Lets try having a discussion without name calling. At the end of the day, I believe I can show you the facts on how BUSH created the housing mess starting in 2002 until today.

Peace.

So now you want to stop the name calling? come on "brother" , the name calling, weather actually mentioning an individual or a group of people, all started with you and a couple of your supporters. I'm actually a pretty calm and reserved guy. I rarely call an individual names or make statements to include all individuals that are part of a certain group except in retaliation.
You keep it civil, I will also.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Politicians didn't create the housing bubble. They certainly enabled it through a combination of cheer leading and passing legislation that gutted the regulatory structures that could have prevented it, but the subprime mess was a creation of the banking industry.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
..................."Lets try having a discussion without name calling. At the end of the day, I believe I can show you the facts on how BUSH created the housing mess starting in 2002 until today.

Peace .............." (TOS)

Bush isn't in charge anymore......what's done is done. The key to it now is What Has Obama Done To Fix Anything ??? To talk about what curry comb Washington used on his white horse is old stuff. The leader of the country cannot just sit around and blame others..."Oh woe is me!" He's pathetic!
 
..................."Lets try having a discussion without name calling. At the end of the day, I believe I can show you the facts on how BUSH created the housing mess starting in 2002 until today.

Peace .............." (TOS)

Bush isn't in charge anymore......what's done is done. The key to it now is What Has Obama Done To Fix Anything ??? To talk about what curry comb Washington used on his white horse is old stuff. The leader of the country cannot just sit around and blame others..."Oh woe is me!" He's pathetic!
What did he do to fix it? He gave the banks lots of money, money that provided huge bonuses to the bankers so they could stay liquid while they foreclosed on mortgages.
 
Island,

Again, lets put the talking points away and deal with reality. You said BUSH only used policies that were in place for 60 years? Seriously? What policies? Clinton nor Barney Frank had ANYTHING to do with zero downpayments. Clinton nor Barney Frank had anything to do with arranging with friend and friend 440 billion dollars for low income loans or low income bad credit loans. Clinton nor Barney Frank had anything to do with removing the "barriers" of home ownership.

The only spatter of truth to your statements are that every president since 1900 has run on a platform of home ownership. Clinton helped to make affordable homes available but he NEVER advocated zero downpayments, interest only loans, loans to bad credit risks, loans to low income minorities to the tune of 1.5 million blacks and 1.5 million hispanics.

IT was BUSH who advocated for all the things that went wrong in the housing bubble. You dont possibly believe all the loans that went bad are loans written in the 1990's do you?

You couldnt be that naive? The loans that are imploding were written between 2002 and 2007. These loans mainly consist of interest only loans that are "resetting" and those resets are too high for the home owner to afford.

Its really simple math Island, a three year interest only loan written in 2002 would reset in 2005, those people made money because they were ahead of the curve. A three year interest only loan written in 2005 is belly up now and foreclosed upon. What you are seeing today are the 5 year and 7 year interest only loans exploding in front of our faces. Like landmines, they were created after 2002 and before the bubble burst.

As these loans collapse, they are taking the whole market with them. You havent seen the last of foreclosures. We still have 10 year interest only and 15 interest only loans to mature and face resets, those will crush the housing market once again.

In all the cities that had housing booms, interest only loans made up the largest percentage.

For those that dont understand how an interest only loan reset works, ill explain.

You take out a 5 year interest only loan at 6% in 2004. You put no money down. The loan would then be written as a 80/20 loan with a first and second. In 2009, that loan will mature, and depending on the loan a large balloon payment (usually 15K) would be due in cash and the terms of the loan change to "PRIME" plus 2%. "Prime" is set at the time of the writing of the loan.

So, in 2009, you have to pay 15K in cash and on your first, the % goes to 8% and on the second (second is always 1.5% higher 7.5% plus 2%) and that makes the second 9.5%.

On a 400K home, the payment will jump from 3000 a month to over 5K a month.

This mathematical problem makes the problem serious when the homes value has dropped severely. People in this mess have NO OPTIONS. They could try and:

1) sell the home at a huge loss and pay the difference in cash
2) ask the lender to short sale the home
3) apply for a modification through the federal goverment
4) or re finance after paying the difference in cash between the new appraised value and balanced owed.

What this buyer CANT do is :

1) sell the home for what is owed.
2) refi the home for what is owed.
3) Have the interest rate changed.

Once buyers are in this mess, they simply walk away and leave the house and file for BK.

This is the reality of the BUSH Home Ownership society. Bush brags about the millions of homes sold after the introduction of his program to america and its those same millions that are foreclosing today.

There is no secret behind this. Its simple math.

Peace.
Question: In the laws passed by congress and signed by Bush or any Bush "orders", did any of them include "interest only loans" for people with bad credit or people that could not make the payments?

Was it the president or the banks that presented the loan papers to be signed? How were these interest only deals presented? Was there a clear explanation that the payments would increase by 2/3 on a house that would know owe more on than the original sale price? Did Bush order the lending institutions for hide that pertinent information from buyers?

I also have to wonder what % of the fore closures were do to people loosing their jobs and having basically no income?
Over the years, there has been a very basic "rule" of lending institutions that ones monthly house payment not exceed 1/4 of their monthly income. Did Bush order the banks to ignore that? If he did order that, where and how was the order issued?
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
Politicians didn't create the housing bubble. They certainly enabled it through a combination of cheer leading and passing legislation that gutted the regulatory structures that could have prevented it, but the subprime mess was a creation of the banking industry.

I disagree. The banks knew if they had to loan out their money for a home the requirement of a 20% downpayment was the best insurance of repayment. Politicians did more than cheerlead with the creation of entities of the FHA, VA, Freddie and Fannie.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
I disagree. The banks knew if they had to loan out their money for a home the requirement of a 20% downpayment was the best insurance of repayment. Politicians did more than cheerlead with the creation of entities of the FHA, VA, Freddie and Fannie.

That's the way banks thought before deregulation, but it simply was not a concern for the lending institutions who were making a killing in the subprime mortgage game. Fannie and Freddie aren't mortgage originators, they were players in the subprime market but they didn't create it. Even if they had stayed away from subprimes in the secondary market there were plenty of private institutions who would have picked up the slack and the end result would have been the same.
I never said that politician's only role was cheerleading:
They certainly enabled it through a combination of cheer leading and passing legislation that gutted the regulatory structures that could have prevented it
The lack of regulation and oversight was crucial in allowing so much hidden risk to accumulate in the housing market.
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
With Freddie and Fannie backing every mortgage made, it was incredible that no one cared as long as there was a commission to be made.
The blame train is quite long, in would include every person involved with each transaction from the newspaper ads all the way up to the county clerks recording the transfer of deeds.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
With Freddie and Fannie backing every mortgage made, it was incredible that no one cared as long as there was a commission to be made.
The blame train is quite long, in would include every person involved with each transaction from the newspaper ads all the way up to the county clerks recording the transfer of deeds.
It's a misconception that Fannie and Freddie back every mortgage. They dominate the secondary mortgage market but they are not the only players. They never held a majority of the subprime mortgages, in fact as the subprime market exploded their share of it decreased from 48% down to 24%. At it's the peak the vast majority of subprimes were being securitized by private lending institutions.
You are right about no one caring, because everyone involved was making a killing until the music stopped.
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
The lack of regulation and oversight was crucial in allowing so much hidden risk to accumulate in the housing market.

Deregulation is a myth. The simple fact is that there are more regulations, more regulators, and more money spent to comply with these regulations than any time before.
 
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