Ft. Hood
- Thread starter moreluck
- Start date
Just saw this. What a maroon.
brett636
Well-Known Member
I can see your point regarding their M16s, but what about their side arms?
Most service members get issued M-16's, sidearms are generally only issued to SNCO's and officers. To be perfectly honest, having every single soldier walking around base locked and loaded would likely cause more problems than it solved. Keep it mind that what happened at Fort Hood was extremely rare, and also completely preventable. There were all kinds of red flags with this guy that should have been acted on.
SNCO's and Officers could probably draw their sidearms from the armory and carry them while on base if they wanted to. Taking them home would be problematic.bret636 said:
It wouldn't surprise me if the military took a serious look at having certain personnel armed at all times while on base, in addition to the MP's, in response to this incident.
This has to be the dumbest statement ever made since the freedom of speech was put into the bill of rights.
Remember the wild west?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Guys, I can tell you from experience that only those Army personnel in certain MOS's (jobs) are authorized to carry weapons. You make it sound like everyone on post packs heat--that just isn't the case.
The only time I ever touched a weapon during my 8 years was during our annual qualification and during basic. We used M-16s with .223 caliber bullets. This was the Air Force. The Army does have more MOS's that authorize the use of weapons than the Air Force, and the Marines more so than the Army, but in none of the branches is everyone packing heat. Weapons are kept in the armory and are issued and returned daily. Weapons are not allowed off post except in certain situations which do not bear on the conversation. Like in the movie A Few Good Men, all bullets are accounted for.
This tragedy had nothing to do with military and the issue of issuing weapons to their troops. This has everything to do with a disturbed individual who simply did not want to go to war and saw this as his way out. The point has been made that had there been an armed soldier nearby the tragedy may have been lessened. This may be true but you have to remember that Ft Hood is one of the largest military posts and the odds of an armed soldier being in that area at that time are slim at best.
The part that troubles me the most is that there had to have been warning signs which for some reason were not recognized or acted upon.
(If you sense an anti-gun tone in this post that is because I am opposed to guns for reasons which also do not bear on the conversation.)
(If you sense an anti-gun tone in this post that is because I am opposed to guns for reasons which also do not bear on the conversation.)
knightablaze
Active Member
Your statement is false. I am correct in stating that his opening remarks that occurred before the shooting legitimately omitted a prediction of the future. However it's true that in his closing remarks Obama balanced both diplomacy and damage control.
It should be be pointed out that it wasn't a "conference crew." It was the 2009 Tribal Nations Conference. Obama spent the day with tribal leaders and interior politicians and appointees shaping future tribal policies. When he readdressed the conference, he spoke of the future that tribal nations are actually helping him achieve. He then dovetailed the incident - which most people had already heard about - into his speech.
His closing remarks were given around 6:00 pm CST. Almost five hours after the incident. Further, he took the time the next morning to address the Fort Hood shootings directly. Given the isolation of the incident and the slow reconciliation of details and facts, I don't find his behavior shocking. I find it rational.
Babagounj
Strength through joy
Rational. Go drink some more of the kool-aid, you have not be keeping up with your required daily intake.
It has been proven that in the time of the old west, people were much friendlier and polite towards each other due to the known fact that no one actually knew who was carrying a weapon.
It has been proven that in the time of the old west, people were much friendlier and polite towards each other due to the known fact that no one actually knew who was carrying a weapon.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
brett636
Well-Known Member
This has to be the dumbest statement ever made since the freedom of speech was put into the bill of rights.
Remember the wild west?
I know the truth is something you either don't want to hear or can't comprehend, but in places where guns are in the hands of more law abiding citizens you have less crime, and rampages like these are non existent. That is a pure, simple fact.
Citation needed for that.
klein
Für Meno :)
Forget sending more troops to the middle east.
I say send all the female cops to Afghanistan and Iraq.
They will have the job done, in no time !
As for brett's idealogic :
Yeah, went to a Hockeygame in Anaheim.
Darn metal detectors there, even if you go out for a smoke and come back.
Let the damn guns in. If an idiot shoots a few players, atleast you'll have 20.000+ thousand to shoot back at him.
Same as bars. They should rent them out there.
That way bars wouldn't be as rowdy as they are today, right Brett ???
I say send all the female cops to Afghanistan and Iraq.
They will have the job done, in no time !
As for brett's idealogic :
Yeah, went to a Hockeygame in Anaheim.
Darn metal detectors there, even if you go out for a smoke and come back.
Let the damn guns in. If an idiot shoots a few players, atleast you'll have 20.000+ thousand to shoot back at him.
Same as bars. They should rent them out there.
That way bars wouldn't be as rowdy as they are today, right Brett ???
brett636
Well-Known Member
Myth: Concealed carry laws increase crime
Fact: Thirty-nine states282, comprising the majority of the American population, are "right-to-carry" states. Statistics show that in these states the crime rate fell (or did not rise) after the right-to-carry law became active (as of July, 2006). Nine states restrict the right to carry and two deny it outright.
Fact: Crime rates involving gun owners with carry permits have consistently been about 0.02% of all carry permit holders since Florida’s right-to-carry law started in 1988.283
Fact: After passing their concealed carry law, Florida's homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below, and remains below the national average (as of the last reporting period, 2005).284
Fact: In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second.
282At publication time two more states, Kansas and Nebraska, have pass shall-issue legislation, but insufficient data was available to determine how the change has impacted crime rates.
283 Florida Department of Justice, 1998
284 Shall issue: the new wave of concealed handgun permit laws, Cramer C and Kopel D. Golden CO: Independence Institute Issue Paper. October 17, 1994
klein
Für Meno :)
Darnit, we should learn from you.
We could have gotten the crime rate even further down, if we would allow those great guns ! :
Canada's crime rate lowest in 25 years: StatsCan report
Offences down in every province, territory in 2006 but youth crime rate up by three per cent
Last Updated: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 | 1:47 PM ET
CBC News
Driven by a decline in non-violent felonies, Canada's crime rate reached a 25-year low in 2006, with every province and territory recording a drop, Statistics Canada said Wednesday.
Province/territory:Overall crime rate (per 100,000 population)
Change from 2005 (in %)National7,518 -3British Columbia 11,365 -5Alberta 9,523 -6Saskatchewan 13,711 -4Manitoba 11,678 -1Ontario 5,689 -2Quebec 5,909 -3New Brunswick 6,111 -5Nova Scotia 8,069 -2P.E.I. 6,793 -11Newfoundland and Labrador 6,055 -2Yukon 20,593 -9Northwest Territories 41,468 -5Nunavut 31,265 -11Source: Statistics Canada The overall crime rate was 7,518 per 100,000 people, down three per cent from 2005.
As for comparison, same year stats for the USA :
Murders, Robberies Drive Up U.S. Violent Crime Rate
June 04, 2007 by
Holly Desimone Holly Desimone
Crime Rate | Robberies | Violent Offenders | Violent Crime
Murders, robberies drive up U.S. violent crime rate
POSTED: 11:04 a.m. EDT, June 4, 2007
Story Highlights
• Violent crime up 1.3 percent in 2006, FBI reports
• Murders in big cities jumped 6.7 percent
• Robberies up 6.1 percent nationwide .
• More guns, gangs and younger, more violent offenders blamed for increase
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- More murders and robberies in 2006 sent U.S. violent crimes higher for the second straight year, the FBI said on Monday, with the increase blamed on gangs, youth violence, gun crimes and fewer police on beats.
The FBI reported that the number of violent crimes nationwide went up by 1.3 percent last year, following a 2.3 percent increase in 2005. That had been the first rise in four years and the biggest percentage gain in 15 years.
The report showed that murders in big cities jumped last year by 6.7 percent. Robberies, an important indicator of crime trends, increased 6 percent nationwide.
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island1fox
Well-Known Member
It is really very sad when shooting incidents such as this occur. It is also very sad when the debate suddenly turns to whether or not Americans should have the freedom to own guns.I truly believe that for every tragic incident like these there are thousands of positive stories never reported.
First of all most crimes involve illegal guns
Secondly I own firearms --I have a clean record--I purchased them legally and have been trained on the proper use , care and control.
I was at a dinner and theatre event with my wife a few monthe ago --as we approached our car a gang of young thugs approached us and demanded our money . When I pulled out my 357 magnun --I am sure some olympic speed records were set as they ran ---no incident --no report. We saw a police car a few blocks from the parking garage --gave the police a verbal report and they said they already knew of this group and had been actively seeking them . No great news event ---but if I was not armed it could very well have been . Police cannot be everywhere !!!
klein
Für Meno :)
I truly believe that for every tragic incident like these there are thousands of positive stories never reported.
First of all most crimes involve illegal guns
Secondly I own firearms --I have a clean record--I purchased them legally and have been trained on the proper use , care and control.
I was at a dinner and theatre event with my wife a few monthe ago --as we approached our car a gang of young thugs approached us and demanded our money . When I pulled out my 357 magnun --I am sure some olympic speed records were set as they ran ---no incident --no report. We saw a police car a few blocks from the parking garage --gave the police a verbal report and they said they already knew of this group and had been actively seeking them . No great news event ---but if I was not armed it could very well have been . Police cannot be everywhere !!!
Well, yes, that is the sad part
Not feeling safe in your own community, anymore.Just too much crime out there.
I guess, another thing that has be approched and fixed.
And yes, I'm happy that you were able to defend yourself !
Darn punks.
island1fox
Well-Known Member
Thank you Klein !!!!
D
Dis-organized Labor
Guest
I truly believe that for every tragic incident like these there are thousands of positive stories never reported.
First of all most crimes involve illegal guns
Secondly I own firearms --I have a clean record--I purchased them legally and have been trained on the proper use , care and control.
I was at a dinner and theatre event with my wife a few monthe ago --as we approached our car a gang of young thugs approached us and demanded our money . When I pulled out my 357 magnun --I am sure some olympic speed records were set as they ran ---no incident --no report. We saw a police car a few blocks from the parking garage --gave the police a verbal report and they said they already knew of this group and had been actively seeking them . No great news event ---but if I was not armed it could very well have been . Police cannot be everywhere !!!
A log time ago, I was in a mall parking lot during Christmas and was waiting to get into a long line of traffic. As the cars moved forward, one allowed about 20 yards to open between him and the car in front of him. I took that to mean: "go ahead and get in front of me". As I moved forward the car sped up, horn blaring and two guys and a girl in the back seat pulled up alog side and started screaming and cursing at me. The passenger produced a machete and said he was gonna' cut my fu***** head off. I leaned over and produced my SIG 225, cocked it and drew a bead on his forehead and told him to hand me the machete grip-first.
I still use the machete to cut weeds in my yard.
island1fox
Well-Known Member
A log time ago, I was in a mall parking lot during Christmas and was waiting to get into a long line of traffic. As the cars moved forward, one allowed about 20 yards to open between him and the car in front of him. I took that to mean: "go ahead and get in front of me". As I moved forward the car sped up, horn blaring and two guys and a girl in the back seat pulled up alog side and started screaming and cursing at me. The passenger produced a machete and said he was gonna' cut my fu***** head off. I leaned over and produced my SIG 225, cocked it and drew a bead on his forehead and told him to hand me the machete grip-first.
I still use the machete to cut weeds in my yard.
Dis organized labor,
I believe that what you described happens over and over ---People kill ---Guns protect !
Public never hears about these "no news" events.
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