G&A ERI

[scratch]

Ramsey500,
No, I am not new at moderating, I am one of the first that Cheryl asked to help her about a year ago. We get complaints if we do our job and we get complaints when we don't. As a mod, part of our job is to read "guest" postings before they are allowed to be seen. An anonymous poster that doesn't want to officially join this community posted the full first and last name of a private individual without their permission, so I changed it. Yes, I know about initials and first names, that is alright. I do read most of the posts in this forum, since a lot of them are made anonymously and have to be validated through the Control Panel first. brown4life17 doesn't come across as being hostile to anyone in what was deleted, it is just policy not to list full names like that. Perhaps I should have left the first name or initials. If brown4life17 wants to try again, I will do that. If he or she knows this person in the workplace and wants to acknowledge them there, or join and use the PM feature, then fine. More times than not, when people guess at the identity of another person online, they are wrong. So with all respect, it was not my "set of values" that led me to do this.

 

[ramsey500]

my apologies---I thought the poster entered *** ****** -- in the past, when a name was entered and ******* were substituted, there would be a message that a moderator did it because names were not allowed...I know the rules and abide by them...again, when I did not see the disclaimer that a moderator removed the name, I thought the poster simply put *** as the first name hint, and ****** as the last name hint. Again, my apologies ! And I did say 'new to this thread' as I am fully aware you are a Brown Cafe moderator and I do appreciate your time and efforts. And you are right, if the # of * that are now posted in that reply indicates a first and last name, that poster is VERY WRONG.

 

[pretzel_man]

This also seems like a good idea although a bit more complicated.

I just want to feel like my time is actually worth something to management. There are always decisions that are made at higher levels that have impacts at lower levels. I understand that and like to consider myself a team player so I will do what needs to be done to get the job done. However if I was a driver I would be getting time and a half for their poor management decisions. They just don't seem to care and why should they there is no penalty for poor project management. If there was some penalty in time off or a bonus it would make a big difference.

2029:

I've read your posts, and I believe you're sincere. What position do you hold? Are you an MIP participant.

If you are, I disagree with your proposal. If you're an MIP participant you're supposed to be treated like a management person and paid like a salaried professional.

If you're not an MIP participant, I agree with you that you should be compensated somehow for excessive hours.

I guess the question becomes if you're more similar to a center supervisor or a driver.

P-Man

 

[ramsey500]

SUPER BOWL CHAMPS

ps: now's your chance 2029guy
​

 

[ISFriendly]

As I enjoy my day off ( LEA day)... I can not fathom that you think DS is even authorized to compensate us with time above and beyond the discretionary time and vacation we recieve.

If he gave us this time each Portfolio would scream unfair and CHAOS would takeover.

I thought that MIP and our 1/2 month check was for the extra things we do and for being recommended.

To think that talking GIANT football would have him give us extra time off is not too smart.

 

[ramsey500]

so we getting extra days off or what??

 

[2029guy]

I am a single unit MIP participant, however due to my grade level I get paid less than a driver even if you include the MIP. The reason I have not been very active lately is because I have been working such long hours that I have little free time, which is entirely due to poor or good project management depending on your point of view. If you put together a project plan that will require people to work 50 hour weeks because you don’t have to pay overtime then you are being a good project manager. If you put together a plan that requires 50 hour work weeks because you can’t perform accurate estimates that is an entirely different matter.

Just because they call you a Manager does not make it so. The retail industry has been playing this game for years. They will say that you are an assistant store manager or a department manager pay you a set amount per week and require that you work ridiculous hours. When you calculate your hourly rate you find that you make as much or less than an hourly worker because they would have been paid time and a half or double time. I think that the definition of Management should be that you get paid as much or more than the highest paid hourly worker in the company.

2029:

I've read your posts, and I believe you're sincere. What position do you hold? Are you an MIP participant.

If you are, I disagree with your proposal. If you're an MIP participant you're supposed to be treated like a management person and paid like a salaried professional.

If you're not an MIP participant, I agree with you that you should be compensated somehow for excessive hours.

I guess the question becomes if you're more similar to a center supervisor or a driver.

P-Man

 

[2029guy]

Did you see that play where that guy caught the ball by holding it against his helmet? I think that showed true determination. Football in many ways parallels real life; sometimes you just have to stand up for yourself, and not let people shove you around, because they will do that if you give them the chance.

SUPER BOWL CHAMPS


ps: now's your chance 2029guy​

 

[ramsey500]

I agree with your statements. I'm just saying that hell will freeze over before anything is done about it. You would have to understand where the big Giant fan (and most managers at his level) came from in order to understand the refusal to ever consider such a proposal.

If you are like most I.T. professionals at UPS you probably came from another company where you were treated with the respect you deserve.

It's much different when you start working at UPS at age 17 or 18. That's all you know, having never worked in another company. And as a manager who's never worked in another company prior to UPS, all you know is management by intimidation as it's practiced in the districts.

Don't forget, I.T. at UPS has always been looked at as overhead and a necessary evil. And that will never change. We are a transportation company, and not an I.T. shop.

You sound like a nice person who hasn't been employed at UPS for that long. Take my advice, don't expect to make it a career. Those days are over.

 

[pretzel_man]

I am a single unit MIP participant, however due to my grade level I get paid less than a driver even if you include the MIP. The reason I have not been very active lately is because I have been working such long hours that I have little free time, which is entirely due to poor or good project management depending on your point of view. If you put together a project plan that will require people to work 50 hour weeks because you don’t have to pay overtime then you are being a good project manager. If you put together a plan that requires 50 hour work weeks because you can’t perform accurate estimates that is an entirely different matter.

Just because they call you a Manager does not make it so. The retail industry has been playing this game for years. They will say that you are an assistant store manager or a department manager pay you a set amount per week and require that you work ridiculous hours. When you calculate your hourly rate you find that you make as much or less than an hourly worker because they would have been paid time and a half or double time. I think that the definition of Management should be that you get paid as much or more than the highest paid hourly worker in the company.

2029:

Are you sure about your pay compared to drivers?

If you work in New Jersey, you're part of an M structure. The mid points for an M supervisor is pretty high. In addition, the IS pay structure is generally higher than that of a district supervisor.

P-Man

 

[2029guy]

I only know what I have read at this site and that is that some drivers with overtime are getting close to 100K per year. I can tell you that I do not make any where near that amount and I am several grade levels from the bottom. The Teamsters have a National contract that spells out exactly how much they get paid per hour and with overtime can someone post those figures so I can answer P-Man’s question.

I feel that until the lowest level Manager gets paid the same or equal to the highest paid hourly person none of us are actually Management just poorly paid hourly employees.

Everyone in my area knows that Management wants to see a minimum of five hours per week of overtime if you are to be considered for a promotion. Everyone also knows that they produce reports tying your WAR hours to the time from the badge report. We may not be punching a time clock but every time you badge in and out it is recorded so how is that any different from punching a clock.

2029:

Are you sure about your pay compared to drivers?

If you work in New Jersey, you're part of an M structure. The mid points for an M supervisor is pretty high. In addition, the IS pay structure is generally higher than that of a district supervisor.

P-Man

 

[ramsey500]

you are so right about the 'badge reports' --- what a shame, and it all goes back to my prior post about being treated with respect, and as a professional. That will never happen as long as the big GIANTS fan is running things.

 

[pretzel_man]

I only know what I have read at this site and that is that some drivers with overtime are getting close to 100K per year. I can tell you that I do not make any where near that amount and I am several grade levels from the bottom. The Teamsters have a National contract that spells out exactly how much they get paid per hour and with overtime can someone post those figures so I can answer P-Man’s question.

I feel that until the lowest level Manager gets paid the same or equal to the highest paid hourly person none of us are actually Management just poorly paid hourly employees.

Everyone in my area knows that Management wants to see a minimum of five hours per week of overtime if you are to be considered for a promotion. Everyone also knows that they produce reports tying your WAR hours to the time from the badge report. We may not be punching a time clock but every time you badge in and out it is recorded so how is that any different from punching a clock.

2029:

I'm not sure which position you hold in IS, but let me give you some information.

As an IS person, you're making more than a center supervisor. (At lest your control point is higher).

You're working less hours than a center supervisor. You mention the word "overtime" which doesn't exist in management's world. Our pay is based on working 9 hours per day not including lunch. Unless you're working longer than that, you're not going beyond expectations.

You get a 1/2 month check at Christmas. That's there for the extra hours and day's we work at peak season. Center supervisors understand that.

My point is that its hard to feel sorry for a person (or group) that makes more money and works less hours, yet reaps the same benefits that our center supervisors do.

P-Man

 

[UPSOVERSIZE]

Hey Ramsey,

Either quit, go driving which wou require you to work more than 70 hours per week to hit 100K or thank the good lord you have a job. Citibank is laying off 45,000 and UBS is laying off and friends of mine in construction and on Wall Street have been laid off.

I have friends in consulting that can't get a job due to the economy and some have taken less paying jobs to pay their bills and they had 15 years in App. development.

I compared my salary and benefits with friends and family who are in our industry and while I am not the highest paid, I was better off than most. I also compared my hours and found that we work less than most.

You can believe what you want, but I think UPS is agreat place to work with hard working people and Mgrs who are trying to make it better. Yes, they have made mistakes. But this place is better than it was
3 to 4 years ago. Whether it be Ramsey or Morristown, the people who complained when Barry was here are still the same complaining now. I am not kissing butt, just stating the facts.

To the individual who is sending me the nasty private emails. Please stop immediately. Your lack of professionalism makes me believe you are not in I/T or the G&A portfolio

I agree with your statements. I'm just saying that hell will freeze over before anything is done about it. You would have to understand where the big Giant fan (and most managers at his level) came from in order to understand the refusal to ever consider such a proposal.

If you are like most I.T. professionals at UPS you probably came from another company where you were treated with the respect you deserve.

It's much different when you start working at UPS at age 17 or 18. That's all you know, having never worked in another company. And as a manager who's never worked in another company prior to UPS, all you know is management by intimidation as it's practiced in the districts.

Don't forget, I.T. at UPS has always been looked at as overhead and a necessary evil. And that will never change. We are a transportation company, and not an I.T. shop.

You sound like a nice person who hasn't been employed at UPS for that long. Take my advice, don't expect to make it a career. Those days are over.

 

[Dfigtree]

<<Don't forget, I.T. at UPS has always been looked at as overhead and a necessary evil. And that will never change. >>

That is simply a false statement. I cannot remember, maybe P71 can help me out here, but I am pretty certain that one of the past CEO's, Oz would be my guess, said we are no longer a package delivery company. We are a package information company. On second thought, that sounds like FXE but whoever said it he was right, IMHO. 'nuf said. Enjoy your day.

 

[freeloader]

<<Don't forget, I.T. at UPS has always been looked at as overhead and a necessary evil. And that will never change. >>

That is simply a false statement. I cannot remember, maybe P71 can help me out here, but I am pretty certain that one of the past CEO's, Oz would be my guess, said we are no longer a package delivery company. We are a package information company. On second thought, that sounds like FXE but whoever said it he was right, IMHO. 'nuf said. Enjoy your day.

Oz Nelson was what, 3 CEO's ago. And I doubt he left a memo for his successor reminding him UPS is a package information company. Seriously though, that statement was made back in mid 90's. The playing field has changed significantly since then - outsourcing, offshoring, dot-com busts, recessions, etc. Back then IS/TSG was able to reap the benefits of their hard work by sitting around watching everything work smoothly (the no news is good news philosophy). These days management wants to squeeze more productivity out of of less resources. Therefore you can work hard but you can't sit around and watch everything work smoothly anymore. You waste a considerable amount of effort daily fluffing PMT because all the hard proactive work you put into keeping your building up and running doesn't count for anything.

As far as UPS is concerned, any function that does not generate revenue or add significant value to service is unnecessary overhead. Maybe that's just the way it is in the transportation industry. Other industries have different viewpoints.

 

[an anonymous guest]

It was Oz who began the process of adding the customer and technology back to the core of UPS. Funny how Casey always knew those things were important. Erbrick and Eskew were part of the core transofrmation team. I was in there somewhere chopping wood. Some operators fought against it mightily saying things like 'we pick them up and deliver them, let the customer track them.' Gradually those dinosaurs either changed or their DNA was eliminated through retirements. To say things ran smoothly then is a gross overstatement, they did not. Changes were of great magnitude and speed. There was lots of problem solving fer sure. It was kind of a maelstron with the growing airline, package tracking, DIAD, and Internation going all at the same time. Smooth it was not. Erbrick used to keep a case of pink stuff in his office and the bottles were often empty.

Go UPS!
P71

 

[ramsey500]

hey oversize---

please direct your comments to the person who was asking for these perks, and that ain't me.

and you sound like one of those brown lifers -- am I right?

did you ever work in another I.T. shop before UPS?

or are ya one of those accounting guys they didn't know what to do with so they sent ya to NJ?

 

[Dfigtree]

Some operators fought against it mightily saying things like 'we pick them up and deliver them, let the customer track them.' P71

Reminds me of the VP who said at a planning meeting that wasn't going so well, slamming his fist on the table, "Damn it. If they want it there tomorrow they should have shipped it yesterday". He thought NDA was a stupid idea. Stupid is as stupid does. Enjoy your day. D Harry

 

[UPSOVERSIZE]

Hey Rams,
I hope to be brown for a few more years. I came from several I/ T shops before Morristown. Some in the Area and some in Manhattan. The commute was a killer. I also consulted for a while which is how I came to UPS. What is your hangup with Acctg guys ?

hey oversize---

please direct your comments to the person who was asking for these perks, and that ain't me.

and you sound like one of those brown lifers -- am I right?

did you ever work in another I.T. shop before UPS?

or are ya one of those accounting guys they didn't know what to do with so they sent ya to NJ?