Is Smith Ready To Make the Move to Ground?

[MrFedEx]

I asked you what CPC was because I think it's the same between the two companies and I think alot of the terminology between the two is beginning to be that way. I really don't care what the letters mean. I'm getting more at the kinds of systems and programs that are in place and how they are implemented when I suggested you would not see a lot of difference in the operations between Ground and Express from the inside. But no. Not with you. You want everything to be some kind of goofy intellectual competition. Is that that inferiority complex shining through again?

Dude, you can be Einstein and I can be Homer Simpson for all I care. The 2 companies are getting closer, which makes my point that the FedEx corporation is running the show. You're just there to make it all look good. In short, the contractors are the mechanism whereby FedEx legitimizes it's operations in the eyes of the law. You and I both know that Memphis calls the shots, as evidenced by the way they are continuously attempting to improve your numbers by imposing the Express operating system upon Ground.

 

[bbsam]

Dude, you have just said what I said two posts ago. You call it "the mechanism where by Fedex legitimizes..." and I said "how the show is run". So they want to improve our numbers by "imposing the Express operating system upon Ground." I'm fine with that if it makes Ground better. Any reason I should want the company to not do better?

 

[MrFedEx]

Dude, you have just said what I said two posts ago. You call it "the mechanism where by Fedex legitimizes..." and I said "how the show is run". So they want to improve our numbers by "imposing the Express operating system upon Ground." I'm fine with that if it makes Ground better. Any reason I should want the company to not do better?

Express runs Ground.

 

[FedExer267]

Good luck with Ground getting better. Remember it ultimatley comes down to your wage slaves bbsam. Yes we are the wage slaves because thats all we recieve is a wage. It does not matter what Ground does to improve you have to remember it comes down to getting what you pay for.
I got chewed out last week from a manager not my contractor because my numbers were not up to snuff the funny thing is I had the day before off and my boss ran the route. When you cover 5 zipcodes and you have a employee of FedEx load your truck you are at his mercy if he screws up by loading stops in bulk you are screwed. I pointed out to this manager if he wants efficency he needs to train his employees to be efficent. It didnt matter as I was not there the day before but I will not spend my day running back and forth because they refuse to train these people. You get what you pay for and Yes FedEx runs the show not the contractors.
In short the drivers at Ground are not going to work harder for what they get paid.

 

[MrFedEx]

Good luck with Ground getting better. Remember it ultimatley comes down to your wage slaves bbsam. Yes we are the wage slaves because thats all we recieve is a wage. It does not matter what Ground does to improve you have to remember it comes down to getting what you pay for.
I got chewed out last week from a manager not my contractor because my numbers were not up to snuff the funny thing is I had the day before off and my boss ran the route. When you cover 5 zipcodes and you have a employee of FedEx load your truck you are at his mercy if he screws up by loading stops in bulk you are screwed. I pointed out to this manager if he wants efficency he needs to train his employees to be efficent. It didnt matter as I was not there the day before but I will not spend my day running back and forth because they refuse to train these people. You get what you pay for and Yes FedEx runs the show not the contractors.
In short the drivers at Ground are not going to work harder for what they get paid.

Good post. If E2 and SOS go over to Ground there will have to be pay raises because the standard will be much higher than it is now. What bbsam doesn't understand is that the efficiency level over at Express is way higher than it is at Ground. Each time the Express management team decides that they need to tweak ops over at Ground for more productivity and profits, they simultaneously run the risk of more scrutiny from those who decide whether or not the ISP model is legitimate. For now, maybe it is, but one thing for certain is that Fred won't be satisfied until he gets Express-level service from Ground. That might prove to be his undoing and the start of a new round of legal battles over ISP.

 

[Cactus]

Also if more and more efficiency is required of ground drivers many of them will say "screw it" and go elsewhere while their immediate bosses (like bbsam let's say) are gonna have to go out in the real world and deliver the goods after their help abandons ship.

bbsam better tell your wife to leave something for your dinner in the fridge that you can nuke every night after working longer hours in the future.

 

[FedExer267]

Heck ya I am with you Cactus they only reason there are decent drivers at Ground right now is because most of us were victims of the economy. Any of us who had a REAL JOB before working for Ground know its a scam we also know we dont get paid what we are worth and so we give them exactly what they pay for. FedEx Ground now holds such high standards for hiring new hires it will be funny to see when we all leave for REAL JOBS again how are they going to get butts to fill the seats. A professional will not work for what they pay. Looking on Craigslist is such a laugh right now up to 70 hrs a week 500 a week and they only what experience hahaha.

 

[DS]

I'm not sure about anything, but it makes sense to me that if you can use one driver to deliver express and ground at the same time,it eliminates an employee.Maybe Fred is preparing for the inevitable union implications.At ups,it's not unusual to have 10 10:30 commits and an additional 15-20 noon commits .After this you still have 200 + packages left in the back and another 70 stops before you have to take lunch and start your pickup log.You guys may lose a few pounds if my prediction is true.But, it's just my opinion.

 

[bbsam]

Let's break it down real simple for ya. More volume=more revenue=more driver pay. Simple equation. Where you guys seem to miss the point is that the Ground driver by all other measures is getting screwed. If he's making $14/hr and the added revenue can bring him up to $16/hr, guess what? He's probably not gonna have a problem with it and Fedex gets their packages delivered for far less than the "top out" price that everyone around here keeps griping about. Plus routes will naturally shrink. The efficiencies will have to come. Most of my drivers already work 10 hour days. Shrink the delivery areas, increase stops in the area and add a route. I've said it before and let's reiterate it again. There is absolutely nothing wrong with spending money to make money.

 

[bbsam]

MFE. Our terminal has gone from 22 contractors to 7 ISP's. Generally ISPs are going to make ALOT more money. We contractors who have been running multiple work areas for many, many years know exactly where we've been getting screwed and it is about to change. Look at those numbers for a minute. 22 to 7. With one fairly simple legal move Fedex has cut down to 1/3 the number of contractors who would potentially sue trying to claim that they are employees. Next move on to the fact that each one of those 7 ISP's have to actually negotiate their contract and one starts to get the feeling that if an ISP feels like he's getting screwed, maybe he needs to invest in better legal and business advisers and not try to blame the company. Finally, this is a smart and relatively cheap move for the company. They finally get away from the very expensive law suits and instead part of those funds to the more expensive ISP model and the new ISP's benefit from a greater revenue stream. Both sides can be happy with that.

 

[vantexan]

Let's break it down real simple for ya. More volume=more revenue=more driver pay.

How long have you dealt with FedEx? They will only pay what they deem necessary to keep you at it. And since ISP's are middlemen they'll be sure to get their share of any increases before the drivers do. It seems you and FedEx are operating under the premise that regular employees are getting paid too much and that there are plenty of people out there who will be content with $14 to $16hr. People who accept minimum wage who are in their 30's usually have some kind of living arrangement that allows them to get by on little or are just not motivated to work hard for more. But people who have kids, mortgages, cars, etc are motivated to make enough to provide a life for them and their families. $14hr just won't make that happen. People might make it for awhile, but they expect to do better as time goes by so that they can pay for things that matter. OK you say, we'll move them to $16hr. By the time you do inflation will eat the difference and they're no better off. And what organization do they have to move up the ladder of responsibility and better pay? Express has opportunities to move up but they are limited. What it has come down to is FedEx is no longer willing to provide an avenue to good enough pay to have a better life. We are to just accept what we get and like it or leave. $16hr doesn't provide a middle class lifestyle. It just allows you to get by. We then are just here to exist for your benefit. I wonder how long until we're required to doff our hats when one of our betters walks by?

 

[packageguy]

get it done already, tired of here hearing about this,
if fdx does what we do here at ups. Then the answer is
easy.

 

[bbsam]

I don't know, van. The driver's stick around. I don't know if it's because of the economy or what the deal is. I do know that I alone can't be held responsible for the bleeding of the middle class. You don't want change at Fedex; you don't want a union at Fedex. You want more economic equality and that's not gonna come from the bottom up, that's all top down. Gonna be a long, long haul so you might wanna get started now finding your 2012 candidates.

 

[FedExer267]

bbsam you say 14hr. Now I am not sure how you pay your guys maybe you pay them by the hour but most contractors say 14hr but give you a daily rate if I was working 50 hrs a week I would make 700 weekly 60 hours a week would be 840 and 70 hours a week would be 980 however average seems to be 600 to 650 a week so they are not really paying 14 a hour. Take into consideration there is no benefit package that comes from working for a contractor which would definatley add to your hourly worth. Most of us work 60 hours a week for 600 thats 10 bucks a hour for doing physical labor keep in mind most people with REAL JOBS would get OT for the 20 hours extra worked.
With FedEx coming down with all these rules of who you can hire as a employee, they want professional drivers with experience and that might work right now for a person who has fallen on hard times but professional drivers are going to want a hourly rate, benefits, OT, and paid vacation. When we all start leaving to go back to REAL JOBS you are going to have a hard time hiring people just on the standards FedEx wants.
The attitude of most contractors is we should be lucky we have a job well I am here to tell you when FedEx calls us to go back to a stop because we missed a customer by a few minutes or we find something in the bulk stops are attitude is simple. I am not wasting my time its not my fault FedEx cant train their loader properly and I was there once I am not wasting my time because hey its not like I would be getting paid to stay out here longer.
The 12 to 14 dollar a hr rule is based off a 40 hr week not on a 60 to 70 work week. If we indeed did get paid for the time we actually work at 14 a hour I would make 840 a week and wouldnt qualify for food stamps and medical benefits through the state and I might feel like a productive member of society again.

 

[Cactus]

bbsam you say 14hr. Now I am not sure how you pay your guys maybe you pay them by the hour but most contractors say 14hr but give you a daily rate if I was working 50 hrs a week I would make 700 weekly 60 hours a week would be 840 and 70 hours a week would be 980 however average seems to be 600 to 650 a week so they are not really paying 14 a hour. Take into consideration there is no benefit package that comes from working for a contractor which would definatley add to your hourly worth. Most of us work 60 hours a week for 600 thats 10 bucks a hour for doing physical labor keep in mind most people with REAL JOBS would get OT for the 20 hours extra worked.
With FedEx coming down with all these rules of who you can hire as a employee, they want professional drivers with experience and that might work right now for a person who has fallen on hard times but professional drivers are going to want a hourly rate, benefits, OT, and paid vacation. When we all start leaving to go back to REAL JOBS you are going to have a hard time hiring people just on the standards FedEx wants.
The attitude of most contractors is we should be lucky we have a job well I am here to tell you when FedEx calls us to go back to a stop because we missed a customer by a few minutes or we find something in the bulk stops are attitude is simple. I am not wasting my time its not my fault FedEx cant train their loader properly and I was there once I am not wasting my time because hey its not like I would be getting paid to stay out here longer.
The 12 to 14 dollar a hr rule is based off a 40 hr week not on a 60 to 70 work week. If we indeed did get paid for the time we actually work at 14 a hour I would make 840 a week and wouldnt qualify for food stamps and medical benefits through the state and I might feel like a productive member of society again.

Well bbsam seems to always have all the answers and usually in a patronizing type of response.

 

[MrFedEx]

Well bbsam seems to always have all the answers and usually in a patronizing type of response.

He's pretty good at rationalizing the Ground scam. FedExer267 seems to be representative of the issues Ground drivers face, and then bbsam makes it all "better" with his explanations. My favorite variation of the scheme is the weekly salary option, where the Ground driver gets to work 60 hours per week with no OT and no benefits for $600-$700 per week. Gee, I wonder where that profit goes? The basic premise that these folks are non-employees allows FedEx (and bbsam) to extract whatever they can for the absolute minimum payout. Good business? No. Ethical? No. Profitable?...HIGHLY.

 

[FedExer267]

Any leader would defend his system even if it was ethically wrong. They defend because they know its wrong and they need to make sure it looks like the up and up to everyone else so they can continue to make a profit at the little peoples expense. Kind of like the guy I told you in the other thread who was hurt at work and his contractor inability to act and do the right thing has his workers comp tied up in a investigation for atleast 90 days so he suffers right now. Suprisingly enough FedEx has to wonder why drivers will not go the extra mile. There really is not much diffrence in a Contractor and Smith its all about the profit and screw the little people who put that profit in your pocket.

 

[bbsam]

Well bbsam seems to always have all the answers and usually in a patronizing type of response.

Me? Patronizing? If I were patronizing I'd say something like "McDonald's is hiring." But I'd put my own special twist to it and say, "Run along little desert flower the big boys are discussing important issues. And by the way, McDonald's is hiring."

But as to your greater point, the answer isn't that difficult. Either stay, accept the system as it is, change the system, or move on. I guess I am one who has accepted the system and most others here want to change the system. Fine. Change the system if you can. But I would think that the failures (impotence) so far would having you searching other avenues of action.

 

[MrFedEx]

Me? Patronizing? If I were patronizing I'd say something like "McDonald's is hiring." But I'd put my own special twist to it and say, "Run along little desert flower the big boys are discussing important issues. And by the way, McDonald's is hiring."

But as to your greater point, the answer isn't that difficult. Either stay, accept the system as it is, change the system, or move on. I guess I am one who has accepted the system and most others here want to change the system. Fine. Change the system if you can. But I would think that the failures (impotence) so far would having you searching other avenues of action.

It isn't over yet. There is a lot of residual anger out there, particularly toward upper management. I still think a lot of employees will sign cards IF the Teamsters ever get their act together. Although far from a perfect choice, they are the only game in town when it comes to fighting back against Fred. If I have to swallow some cod liver oil to get my candy bar, I will, and so will a lot of others.

 

[bbsam]

It isn't over yet. There is a lot of residual anger out there, particularly toward upper management. I still think a lot of employees will sign cards IF the Teamsters ever get their act together. Although far from a perfect choice, they are the only game in town when it comes to fighting back against Fred. If I have to swallow some cod liver oil to get my candy bar, I will, and so will a lot of others.

Ok. Let's say you are right and it's not over. What's your move? Still waiting on the teamsters? With all your contacts and sources, do you have no one feeding you information from the union? If not, then what? It's gotta start somewhere.