Israeli Invasion

[DownsizedUPS'er]

My personal take on all of this: I understand the Jewish desire to have a home land after the horrors of the holocaust. And I also understand the Palestinian's fight against what they feel is an unfair taking of their land. And I deplore the killing and maiming caused by both sides in this conflict. What I do not understand is why the US has anything to with any of this. We should support neither side because to do so harms our interests more than helps. Our only interest in the Middle East should be oil, period. That is the only product that we, because of our short sighted energy policies, truly need from that part of the world. Our foreign policy should be constructed solely on the fair needs of our nation. Let other countries manage their own problems without our military and our money. Than maybe they can stop blaming us for all their problems.

well, the first thing i would say is, there is no land, country, or place called Palestian. the reason Iraq wants this land is b/c the Israelis have taken a desert and made it fruitful. they have made crops grow and profit from them. this, in addition to the general hatred of Jewish people around the world make these actions happen. Israel has been patient and has adheared to all cease fires, the same cannot be said of Iraq. Israel has a right to protect its land and its people.

As for the sarcasim on the holocaust, that was just really poor taste. that is not a joking matter.

 

[dilligaf]

Downsized, you seem to be very knowledgable and very passionate about this issue. May I ask why?



Seriously interested and seriously not trying to be a smart-.

 

[DownsizedUPS'er]

Downsized, you seem to be very knowledgable and very passionate about this issue. May I ask why?



Seriously interested and seriously not trying to be a smart-.

sure, first, from a human stand point. people should be able to live in peace in their land. people should not have to worry about bombs or missels being shot into their cities. people should not have to worry about the person sitting on the row in front of them on the city bus is a suicide bomber. so, it comes from being a human and not wanting humans to suffer simply because of a twist view of a terrorist groups views. when israel has given up more and more land, to Iraq, (there is no place called Palestine, you wont find it on a map.) and Iarael has done this in the name of peace. everytime there is a cease fire, Iarael abides by it, but the bombings and misels contine from Hamas. so, by a pure human stand point I am passionate about this. (i am also passionate for gay/lesbian rights and i am straight, but that is a different thread) so there are things i feel strongly about.

the second part is that I am Jewish. the Jews have been hated for millions of years. because of religious beliefs. and these are not beliefs that we force on others. in every generation, groups of people of tried to eliminate the Jewish population. so, part of this is also self- preservation. I have family and friends that live in Israel. I worry for their safety. Also, I lost much of my family (grandparants parents and their siblings and aunts and uncles) in the Holocust. When WWII was over and the Jews were freed from Nazi Germany, Israel is where the Jews went to be among other Jews, where they would be safe. they took that desilate land, a desert. they culticated it, they made the land work and become fruitful. this is their land.

Hamas hides behind woman and children in their fighting. the rejoice when they kill innocent Israelis. When Israel kills an innocent peoson in war, that mourn for the loss of that person.

The Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) can take care of this. They have not asked for the US to help, (contrary to an other poster here).

I am glad you asked me this question. It is important for people to understand.

 

[dilligaf]

Thank you for your response. First of all I absolutely agree 100% that people (any) should be able to live their lives unmolested by violence.

As for your back-ground I guessed as much. Thank you. (though not to that extent)






I must confess, I don't know what else to say. I'm at a loss for adequate words.

 

[av8torntn]

Your right.

I know but thanks I guess.

 

[drewed]

well, the first thing i would say is, there is no land, country, or place called Palestian (look at a pre 1947 map). the reason Iraq wants this land is b/c the Israelis have taken a desert and made it fruitful. they have made crops grow and profit from them. this, in addition to the general hatred of Jewish people around the world make these actions happen. Israel has been patient and has adheared to all cease fires, the same cannot be said of Iraq. Israel has a right to protect its land and its people.

As for the sarcasim on the holocaust, that was just really poor taste. that is not a joking matter.

It was Palestine before the current state of Israel existed, UN mandate post WW2 created the Israeli state and also an Palestinian state lands were divivied up and each state took a sponsor the Israelis pushed the British out of the lands and took control of the other lands, most of the lands in dispute are lands that were supposed to be part of the Palestian state per the UN mandate.

There was no disrespect or sarcasism in his post and really I think you go by what youre told a little too much, the Israelis started a war of agression in 1948, the human race hasnt existed millions of years, what lands have they given to Iraq? its kinda weird since they dont border eachother and he wasnt talking about US giving personell support hes talking the billions of dollars that the US has given Israel over the years in monetary and material.

 

[Jones]

I'm also trying to figure out how Iraq plays into this whole thing. That's a new angle (at least for me). And jews being hated for "millions of years" seems like a stretch.

 

[Hawaii50]

These two peope they have been fighting each other since before Christ. Back then they were called Issac"jew" and Ishmael"arab". To this day, the children of Issac and Ishmael are still fighting each other. These two groups are destined to fight each other. They just want to title they are the rightfull heirs to Abrahams covenant.

 

[DownsizedUPS'er]

These two peope they have been fighting each other since before Christ. Back then they were called Issac"jew" and Ishmael"arab". To this day, the children of Issac and Ishmael are still fighting each other. These two groups are destined to fight each other. They just want to title they are the rightfull heirs to Abrahams covenant.

and there inlies the problem. Issac and Ishmael were both sons of Abraham. Issac was born to Abrahams wife, Ishmael was not, and was thrown out of the family, so to speak. This is why the fighting, bc they were both sons of Abraham.

As for the name of the land, the Gaza Strip, the people doing the fighting Hamas are militants. There is no place such as Palistine, as for the Iraq, i was confusing our war with this Israeli attack. But, the point still is that Israeli has a right to defend their people and their land. They have tried to live in peace, even working side by side with Muslim people everyday. It is the fanatics, the terrorists that are the problem. And that is who Israel is going to take care of.

 

[drewed]

and there inlies the problem. Issac and Ishmael were both sons of Abraham. Issac was born to Abrahams wife, Ishmael was not, and was thrown out of the family, so to speak. This is why the fighting, bc they were both sons of Abraham.

As for the name of the land, the Gaza Strip, the people doing the fighting Hamas are militants. There is no place such as Palistine, as for the Iraq, i was confusing our war with this Israeli attack. But, the point still is that Israeli has a right to defend their people and their land. They have tried to live in peace, even working side by side with Muslim people everyday. It is the fanatics, the terrorists that are the problem. And that is who Israel is going to take care of.

Downed, if you look at a map from the 1930s there was a Palestein and no Israel, in the war of independence the Isreal seized the Palestinian land. And to be fair their are fanatics on both sides..

 

[DownsizedUPS'er]

Downed, if you look at a map from the 1930s there was a Palestein and no Israel, in the war of independence the Isreal seized the Palestinian land. And to be fair their are fanatics on both sides..

but Israeli "fanatic" dont blow themselves up in an attempt to kill or mame innocent people. Israelis dont send missels over to Hamas. Israelis fight back to protect themseles. Israelis do not use woman and children as human shields.

 

[drewed]

but Israeli "fanatic" dont blow themselves up in an attempt to kill or mame innocent people. Israelis dont send missels over to Hamas. Israelis fight back to protect themseles. Israelis do not use woman and children as human shields.

But Israel started the war of aggression that leads us into todays issues 60 years ago. And if you think about it, if Israel shells a city colateral damage does occur innocent people do die, thats war, Im not saying either side is right or wrong Im saying its not as cut and dry as you would have people believe. Both nations have a right to exist under UN mandate, it pretty much cuts up the land mass 50/50 (with Jerusalem under joint UN control) and technically Israel illegally occupies Palestinian lands per that mandate.

 

[DownsizedUPS'er]

But Israel started the war of aggression that leads us into todays issues 60 years ago. And if you think about it, if Israel shells a city colateral damage does occur innocent people do die, thats war, Im not saying either side is right or wrong Im saying its not as cut and dry as you would have people believe. Both nations have a right to exist under UN mandate, it pretty much cuts up the land mass 50/50 (with Jerusalem under joint UN control) and technically Israel illegally occupies Palestinian lands per that mandate.

agreed, both nations have a right to exist. Hamas does not beliee that Israelis have a right to exist. And, Israel did not start the war, they are retaliating against attacks. the only reason innocent civilians in Hamas are hurt or killed is because they are hiding amoung the woman and children. it is very clear that Israel has adheared to all cease fires, Hamas has not. They continue with the suicide bombings and missels. NOT Israel.

 

[drewed]

agreed, both nations have a right to exist. Hamas does not beliee that Israelis have a right to exist. And, Israel did not start the war, they are retaliating against attacks. the only reason innocent civilians in Hamas are hurt or killed is because they are hiding amoung the woman and children. it is very clear that Israel has adheared to all cease fires, Hamas has not. They continue with the suicide bombings and missels. NOT Israel.

They didnt adhere to the UN mandate that created both countries, so Israel is just as much in the wrong as the Palestinians are.

 

[DownsizedUPS'er]

They didnt adhere to the UN mandate that created both countries, so Israel is just as much in the wrong as the Palestinians are.

you're wrong, Israel cleared out all the settelments. Israel did as asked.

 

[drewed]

Not all settlements, they cleared out of the Gaza strip (55 years late) which is just fraction of the land thats supposed to be Palestinian, they claim their security would be threatened if they left the other settlements and yes it would be but if they were never illegally occupied in the first place it wouldnt be an issue.

Youre too close to this issue to form an unbiased opinion of it, read up about both sides of the story THEN we can discuss it

 

[DownsizedUPS'er]

Not all settlements, they cleared out of the Gaza strip (55 years late) which is just fraction of the land thats supposed to be Palestinian, they claim their security would be threatened if they left the other settlements and yes it would be but if they were never illegally occupied in the first place it wouldnt be an issue.

Youre too close to this issue to form an unbiased opinion of it, read up about both sides of the story THEN we can discuss it

drew, the fact that i am close to the issue makes perfect to talk about it. perhaps it is you whos thoughts or knowledge is skewed. but, we can still talk, just because we have differing opinions, you seem to think that you hae to be right all the time, and thats not the case.

 

[drewed]

How are my facts skewed? youre presenting a story that Israel has NEVER done anything wrong, I can aknowledge things were done of both sides wrong, and I can base mine on published and widely accepted facts. you cant tell me Israel doesnt illegally hold palestinian lands, you cant prove the Jews have existed millions of years, you cant prove anything that youve written in this thread beyond the missle attacks of the last generation

 

[DownsizedUPS'er]

How are my facts skewed? youre presenting a story that Israel has NEVER done anything wrong, I can aknowledge things were done of both sides wrong, and I can base mine on published and widely accepted facts. you cant tell me Israel doesnt illegally hold palestinian lands, you cant prove the Jews have existed millions of years, you cant prove anything that youve written in this thread beyond the missle attacks of the last generation

well, there is plenty of writting on this. the Jews were the first people, including Jesus. then the birth of Christianity. the first 5 books of the Bible explain it all pretty well. the english calander goes by the birth of Jesus, but the Jewish calander goes back much further.

 

[drewed]

well, there is plenty of writting on this. the Jews were the first people, including Jesus. then the birth of Christianity. the first 5 books of the Bible explain it all pretty well. the english calander goes by the birth of Jesus, but the Jewish calander goes back much further.

Millions of years? the earliest writings on the walls of caves is about 15 thousand years old, chinese goes back to about 10k, and the Jews werent the first people if anything they were of Arabic descent...the english calendar is actually theJuliancalendar founded by a Roman

What Im saying is your ignorance is your bliss, if you dont agree with someone else theyre wrong. You base your beliefs in your faith and thats fine but blindly following is irresponsible.