jobs that pays 28$an hr!!!!

[705red]

I guess the main difference I have with some folks here is what you and I would expect to get out of a re-negotiation. I don't believe the current negotiating team will get you what you want whether it's due to lack of motivation or whatever. To me it's a lesser of 2 evils. Some want to vote no from a philosophical standpoint of fighting for what you believe in. I understand and respect that, however, I believe this contract not passing will due more harm than good. I don't believe they will go back and be able to get the changes you want and I'm not willing to risk our pension.

I believe if theres enough of a turnout on the vote they will get our message that we wont be sold out. They will have no choice but to go back to the table and get us a better offer! The more votes that are sent back the better chance of a no vote. This does not secure a better stronger more secure pension, ask 804 about his pension, or ask anyone from 177 that now will have year round helpers at $10 an hour cutting ftime driving jobs.

 

[Damok]

I believe if theres enough of a turnout on the vote they will get our message that we wont be sold out. They will have no choice but to go back to the table and get us a better offer! The more votes that are sent back the better chance of a no vote. This does not secure a better stronger more secure pension, ask 804 about his pension, or ask anyone from 177 that now will have year round helpers at $10 an hour cutting ftime driving jobs.

I don't believe for a minute that this contract will, in and of itself, fix the pension. I do believe that getting out of CS is a necessity and it is a first step to seeing that we have something down the road. I would rather see different options altogether for retirement investment vehicles but I don't think that's in the ballpark at present so I try to focus on what we do have.

I don't think enough people are informed to the point they can make a wise judgement on either side - they will listen to their friends or they will take all the mailings at face value, etc. I believe the contract will pass but I will be interested in seeing the %'s. I don't believe, if the contract gets shot down, that they will be able to go back to the table with any ammo sufficient to make the changes you want short of a strike threat. I don't think this is the best or worst contract ever, however I'm not sure I believe it's worth a strike. I would be more inclined to direct my efforts toward change at a local level first then higher up.

You are right Red, if enough people vote no it will send a message but I think that's only the beginning. I voted yes but I also think our Union is in dire need of change. I see too little energy expended on promoting the Union to new hires or to the uninformed. I think when people are in charge, of anything, for an extended period of time they forget where they came from. They have their cushy jobs and they make nice speeches while we wonder what it is exactly that we pay them for.

I'm rambling yet again so I'll stop.

 

[705red]

I don't believe for a minute that this contract will, in and of itself, fix the pension. I do believe that getting out of CS is a necessity and it is a first step to seeing that we have something down the road. I would rather see different options altogether for retirement investment vehicles but I don't think that's in the ballpark at present so I try to focus on what we do have.

I don't think enough people are informed to the point they can make a wise judgement on either side - they will listen to their friends or they will take all the mailings at face value, etc. I believe the contract will pass but I will be interested in seeing the %'s. I don't believe, if the contract gets shot down, that they will be able to go back to the table with any ammo sufficient to make the changes you want short of a strike threat. I don't think this is the best or worst contract ever, however I'm not sure I believe it's worth a strike. I would be more inclined to direct my efforts toward change at a local level first then higher up.

You are right Red, if enough people vote no it will send a message but I think that's only the beginning. I voted yes but I also think our Union is in dire need of change. I see too little energy expended on promoting the Union to new hires or to the uninformed. I think when people are in charge, of anything, for an extended period of time they forget where they came from. They have their cushy jobs and they make nice speeches while we wonder what it is exactly that we pay them for.

I'm rambling yet again so I'll stop.

Its not to late to change your vote, if you call for a new ballot the last postmark will be counted. I am very interested in the turnout, the higher the turnout the better chance of a no vote. If this contract does pass it is the end of any teamster official with their name on it, for 2 reasons. The freight side will vote them out for breaking the pension and freight votes. Now it will take upsers a couple of years to see exactly how bad this contract is and see how ups will handle the great sep fund, which will anger upsers to vote them out as well. Like i have said in the past i did not vote for hoffa, i did vote for hall with the rest of the leedham slate, but i have supported them because they won a democratic election. The support stops here first for even offering us this horse crap of a contract and second if this contract passes. Why not vote no, whats the worst thing to happen? They come back with the same offer as their last and final? Please keep in mind that a no vote is not a strike vote!

 

[tieguy]

Its not to late to change your vote, if you call for a new ballot the last postmark will be counted. I am very interested in the turnout, the higher the turnout the better chance of a no vote. If this contract does pass it is the end of any teamster official with their name on it, for 2 reasons. The freight side will vote them out for breaking the pension and freight votes. Now it will take upsers a couple of years to see exactly how bad this contract is and see how ups will handle the great sep fund, which will anger upsers to vote them out as well. Like i have said in the past i did not vote for hoffa, i did vote for hall with the rest of the leedham slate, but i have supported them because they won a democratic election. The support stops here first for even offering us this horse crap of a contract and second if this contract passes. Why not vote no, whats the worst thing to happen? They come back with the same offer as their last and final? Please keep in mind that a no vote is not a strike vote!

ah yes as always there is some company hater selling the sky is falling concept with this contract as we have had with every contract. every contract I've ever seen someone or a few someones would always stand up and say this contract was the worst and would be the end for all of us. And yet each time we have managed to overcome these predictions of gloom and doom and have all done pretty well.

 

[705red]

ah yes as always there is some company hater selling the sky is falling concept with this contract as we have had with every contract. every contract I've ever seen someone or a few someones would always stand up and say this contract was the worst and would be the end for all of us. And yet each time we have managed to overcome these predictions of gloom and doom and have all done pretty well.

Tie if you are correct than why waste your time on attempting to debate this with me? Why dont you leave the contract talk to the union members? Let us debate the issues, unless of course you have another motive here, like the feeder subcontracting language?

 

[Damok]

Its not to late to change your vote, if you call for a new ballot the last postmark will be counted. I am very interested in the turnout, the higher the turnout the better chance of a no vote. If this contract does pass it is the end of any teamster official with their name on it, for 2 reasons. The freight side will vote them out for breaking the pension and freight votes. Now it will take upsers a couple of years to see exactly how bad this contract is and see how ups will handle the great sep fund, which will anger upsers to vote them out as well. Like i have said in the past i did not vote for hoffa, i did vote for hall with the rest of the leedham slate, but i have supported them because they won a democratic election. The support stops here first for even offering us this horse crap of a contract and second if this contract passes. Why not vote no, whats the worst thing to happen? They come back with the same offer as their last and final? Please keep in mind that a no vote is not a strike vote!

Red it may turn out that I'm completely wrong about this contract but right now I still don't think it's as bad as a lot of people think it is. We obviously don't agree about that and that's fine... I'd be worried if everyone agreed 100%. I understand that a no vote is not a strike vote I just really believe it would get us nothing. I can see nothing good coming from sending these people back to the table. I also understand the significance of what you are saying - send them a message. However I think concentrating efforts at change in leadership will send a much more forceful message.

I started a thread with some questions about a renegotiation, if it were to happen. One of them was ...

"B) What are you willing to trade for what you want? Or do you believe you can get those changes without a trade off?"

I don't think any new changes would occur without something from the existing contract being given away... that's why I believe voting no and sending them back will do more harm than good. it will send them a message, yes - but it will also, in my opinion, cause us to lose even more.