UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
You aren't the only one.
Us too.
Major Fail At Our Ground Terminal Already
- Thread starter dvalleyjim
- Start date
Us too.
dvalleyjim
Well-Known Member
But we work 55+ hours. When I set up my payroll I paid hourly with overtime. I know it's a lot cheaper to pay a driver salary but these ISP's base it on a 40 hour week. Your time to scan in your packages and load your truck is not included. Neither is the wait time until Ex let's you leave. Ex has free-unpaid loaders. They send their preload home and we have to get our packages off the belt if we want to be allowed by Ex to leave. I don't care, just making an observation.
STFXG
Well-Known Member
This bad information in this thread is going to make my head explode.
First. The bit about firms engaged in leasing vehicles to motor carriers. That is for firms that are non-carriers. Companies that are not engaged in "safety affecting activities". Contractors do lease their vehicles to FedEx, but we operate them. We are not leasing companies.
Second. Any non-exempt employee can be paid salary. The amount of pay has to be agreed upon prior to employment. "I will hire you for $700 per week to work up to 70 hours." That is perfectly legal. It just has to be in writing and agreed to. The way OT would have to be paid is this: 700/70 = $10 effective hourly rate. The hours were already agreed on so the employer would owe OT on the additional 30 hours. 10/2=5, 5*30 = $150 of OT owed. Since the salary was agreed on the total hours are already paid. 700/45 = $15.56 effective wage. $15.56/2 = 7.78, 7.78*5 = $38.89 OT owed. Obviously for exempt employees, over 10k gvw, this doesn't matter.
The calculation is similar for piece rate. 800 stops at $1 per stop. 50 hour work week. 800/50 = 16. 16/2 = 8. 8*10 = $80 OT owed.
Third. We don't have to cross state lines, our volume does. We are part of the chain. That means we are involved in interstate commerce.
First. The bit about firms engaged in leasing vehicles to motor carriers. That is for firms that are non-carriers. Companies that are not engaged in "safety affecting activities". Contractors do lease their vehicles to FedEx, but we operate them. We are not leasing companies.
Second. Any non-exempt employee can be paid salary. The amount of pay has to be agreed upon prior to employment. "I will hire you for $700 per week to work up to 70 hours." That is perfectly legal. It just has to be in writing and agreed to. The way OT would have to be paid is this: 700/70 = $10 effective hourly rate. The hours were already agreed on so the employer would owe OT on the additional 30 hours. 10/2=5, 5*30 = $150 of OT owed. Since the salary was agreed on the total hours are already paid. 700/45 = $15.56 effective wage. $15.56/2 = 7.78, 7.78*5 = $38.89 OT owed. Obviously for exempt employees, over 10k gvw, this doesn't matter.
The calculation is similar for piece rate. 800 stops at $1 per stop. 50 hour work week. 800/50 = 16. 16/2 = 8. 8*10 = $80 OT owed.
Third. We don't have to cross state lines, our volume does. We are part of the chain. That means we are involved in interstate commerce.
Fred's Myth
Nonhyphenated American
If your claim to being involved in interstate commerce were correct, then everyone carrying freight would qualify because virtually everything, in whole or in part, crosses a State line sooner or later. And if the theory holds, a large number would also be considered international carriers, for the same illogical reason.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
Sorry but you can't decide when ot starts. Your drivers are not exempt employees. If your employees drive a vehicle less than 10,000 lbs, you must pay them or after 40 hours in a work week. That's federal law.Let me repeat myself. Your drivers are not exempt employees.
It will be fine
Well-Known Member
Just because you repeat yourself doesn't make you correct.
Cactus
Just telling it like it is
And just because you won't listen doesn't make you correct.
It will be fine
Well-Known Member
Google motor carrier exemption
STFXG
Well-Known Member
Re-read what I said. I agree, but you misunderstood. OT is owed for anything over 40 hours for non-exempt employees. How you calculate pay is based on what is agreed upon between the employee and employer. Here's another example to clear it up. The employee/employer agree to a wage of 800 per week for up to 50 hours. If the employee works 60 hours in a week you would calculate it this way:
800/50 = $16 effective hourly wage.
(16/2)*10= $80 owed for those 50 hours
(16*1.5)*10= $240 owed for the 10 hours beyond what was agreed on for the wage.
Total pay would be $1120 for the week.
The salary is legal for non-exempt employees. I'm just showing how OT is calculated. As long as the salary is greater than minimum wage it is legal.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
You obviously are ignorant to the definition of an exempt employee. You are merely trying to skirt federal law. Just because you pay by salary doesn't mean you can base it on 70 hours. The law is 40 hours for non exempt employees. If your drivers fall under the small vehicle exemption you must compensate them for ot beyond 40 hours. Even if they don't fall under the small vehicle exemption, they are NOT exempt from the other flsa provisions.
STFXG
Well-Known Member
From http://www.flsa.com/overtime.html
Since you don't believe me and can't find it on your own.
"Salaried nonexempt employees."
The FLSA does not require that nonexempt employees be paid hourly. Nonexempt employees may be paid by means of a salary. Salaried nonexempt employees are still entitled to FLSA overtime pay if, when and to the extent that they actually work more than 40 hours in a work week. FLSA overtime pay is time and one-half of the employee's regular rate of pay. When a nonexempt employee is paid by a salary, the amount of the salary must be converted to its hourly equivalent to determine the regular rate of pay (time and one-half of which is the employee's FLSA overtime rate of pay).
The FLSA formula for determining the regular rate is to divide the total amount of straight time compensation received by the employee "for work" by the number of hours that compensation was intended to pay for. For example, if nonexempt employee "A" is paid a salary of $400 per week for a normal 40 hour work week, the hourly equivalent is $10 per hour. However, the FLSA does not prescribe how many hours per week of straight time a salary must be intended to compensate. This is left to the market, and the arrangements between employers and employees. Thus, for example, a nonexempt employee ("B") may be hired at a salary of $400 as straight time compensation for a normal work week of 50 hours. In that situation, the hourly equivalent of this salary is $8 per hour. If the employee ("C") is hired at a salary of $400 per week for 37.5 normal straight time hours per week, the hourly equivalent is $10.67 per hour.
Assuming that the salary is the entire compensation received by the employee for work, the employee's regular rate of pay -- and therefore the FLSA overtime rate of pay -- varies depending on what the salary is "for." Assume the hypothetical employees described above actually worked 55 hours in a work week -- 15 FLSA overtime hours. Employee "A's" regular rate is $10 per hour, which paid straight time for 40 hours. S/he is due $15 per hour for each FLSA overtime hour, or an additional $225, for total pay due of $625.
Employee "B" is different. S/he is also due time and one-half for 15 FLSA overtime hours worked, but s/he has "already" been paid the straight time rate of $8 per hour for the first 50 hours. S/he is therefore due "the difference" between the $8 of straight time already paid for these hours and the time and one-half overtime rate of $12 per hour for these hours, or an additional $4 per hour for 10 hours, or an additional $40. S/he has been paid nothing for hours 51-55, and is due $12 per hour for each of these. Thus, total wages due hypothetical employee "B" are $400 + $40 + $60 = $500. This kind of regular rate computation is sometimes, but inaccurately, known as a "half time" pay system.
Employee "C" has a regular rate of $10.67 per hour, and therefore an FLSA overtime rate of $16 per hour. The salary did not compensate for any of the FLSA overtime hours (hours 41-55), so s/he is entitled to an additional $240 for these. However, s/he also worked hours 37.5-40, which are not FLSA overtime hours. In a work week when employee "C" did not work any FLSA overtime, how s/he was paid for hours 37.5-40 would not be an FLSA concern at all. However, an FLSA regulation requires that in FLSA overtime work weeks, the employee must be paid "all straight time due" in addition to all FLSA overtime due. Absent some peculiar employment arrangement governing payment for hours 37.5-40 (and no such arrangement exists in the hypothetical), employee "C" must be paid straight time for those, or 2.5 hours at $10.67 per hour = $26.68. Total pay due employee "C" is therefore $400 + $26.68 + $240 = $666.68.
There is another possible way that nonexempt employees may be paid on a salary, and that is if a salary is intended to compensate at straight time for "all" hours worked by the employee, whether "few or many." This type of straight time pay arrangement is permitted under the FLSA for nonexempt employees whose hours of work vary from work week to work week (and typically when their normal hours vary so that in some weeks they work fewer than 40 hours). Under these circumstances, a salary designed to compensate at straight time for "all" hours worked is called a "salary for fluctuating hours." On this kind of pay plan, the FLSA regular rate arithmetic formula is the same, but it results in some unusual computations.
To determine the regular rate for a nonexempt employee paid a salary for fluctuating hours requires dividing the salary amount by how many hours the employee actually worked in the work week. (Since the salary for fluctuating hours compensates at straight time for "whatever" number of hours were worked, the number of hours it was "intended" to compensate depends on how many hours were in fact worked.) Since (almost by definition), the hours actually worked by such an employee may vary from week to week, the employee's regular rate of pay may also vary from week to week. The more hours were actually worked, the less the regular rate is. For example, if employee "D" receives a $400 "salary for fluctuating hours," and worked 60 hours in some week, the regular rate for that week is $6.67. However, if "D" worked 48 hours in the following week, the regular rate for that week would be $8.33. In the first week, "D" is entitled to 20 hours of FLSA overtime pay, at time and one-half the regular rate of pay for that work week. Time and one-half $6.67 is $10. However, the salary has already compensated "D" at straight time for each hour worked. What "D" is due is "the difference" between the $6.67 regular rate for that week and the $10 FLSA overtime rate for that week, for 20 FLSA overtime hours, or an additional $3.33 per hour for 20 FLSA overtime hours, for a total of $400 + $66.60 = $466.60. In the second week, when "D" worked 48 hours, s/he is due time and one-half of the regular rate of $8.33 for each of the 8 FLSA overtime hours worked. Since s/he has already been paid $8.33 for each of these FLSA overtime hours in the salary, what is due is an additional $4.16 for each FLSA overtime hour. Thus, for the 48 hour week, "D" is due $400 + $33.28 = $433.28. A salary for fluctuating hours is another variation of the type of FLSA overtime pay which is sometimes (but inaccurately) called a "half time" system. Valid wage plans using salaries for fluctuating hours are rare.
Since you don't believe me and can't find it on your own.
"Salaried nonexempt employees."
The FLSA does not require that nonexempt employees be paid hourly. Nonexempt employees may be paid by means of a salary. Salaried nonexempt employees are still entitled to FLSA overtime pay if, when and to the extent that they actually work more than 40 hours in a work week. FLSA overtime pay is time and one-half of the employee's regular rate of pay. When a nonexempt employee is paid by a salary, the amount of the salary must be converted to its hourly equivalent to determine the regular rate of pay (time and one-half of which is the employee's FLSA overtime rate of pay).
The FLSA formula for determining the regular rate is to divide the total amount of straight time compensation received by the employee "for work" by the number of hours that compensation was intended to pay for. For example, if nonexempt employee "A" is paid a salary of $400 per week for a normal 40 hour work week, the hourly equivalent is $10 per hour. However, the FLSA does not prescribe how many hours per week of straight time a salary must be intended to compensate. This is left to the market, and the arrangements between employers and employees. Thus, for example, a nonexempt employee ("B") may be hired at a salary of $400 as straight time compensation for a normal work week of 50 hours. In that situation, the hourly equivalent of this salary is $8 per hour. If the employee ("C") is hired at a salary of $400 per week for 37.5 normal straight time hours per week, the hourly equivalent is $10.67 per hour.
Assuming that the salary is the entire compensation received by the employee for work, the employee's regular rate of pay -- and therefore the FLSA overtime rate of pay -- varies depending on what the salary is "for." Assume the hypothetical employees described above actually worked 55 hours in a work week -- 15 FLSA overtime hours. Employee "A's" regular rate is $10 per hour, which paid straight time for 40 hours. S/he is due $15 per hour for each FLSA overtime hour, or an additional $225, for total pay due of $625.
Employee "B" is different. S/he is also due time and one-half for 15 FLSA overtime hours worked, but s/he has "already" been paid the straight time rate of $8 per hour for the first 50 hours. S/he is therefore due "the difference" between the $8 of straight time already paid for these hours and the time and one-half overtime rate of $12 per hour for these hours, or an additional $4 per hour for 10 hours, or an additional $40. S/he has been paid nothing for hours 51-55, and is due $12 per hour for each of these. Thus, total wages due hypothetical employee "B" are $400 + $40 + $60 = $500. This kind of regular rate computation is sometimes, but inaccurately, known as a "half time" pay system.
Employee "C" has a regular rate of $10.67 per hour, and therefore an FLSA overtime rate of $16 per hour. The salary did not compensate for any of the FLSA overtime hours (hours 41-55), so s/he is entitled to an additional $240 for these. However, s/he also worked hours 37.5-40, which are not FLSA overtime hours. In a work week when employee "C" did not work any FLSA overtime, how s/he was paid for hours 37.5-40 would not be an FLSA concern at all. However, an FLSA regulation requires that in FLSA overtime work weeks, the employee must be paid "all straight time due" in addition to all FLSA overtime due. Absent some peculiar employment arrangement governing payment for hours 37.5-40 (and no such arrangement exists in the hypothetical), employee "C" must be paid straight time for those, or 2.5 hours at $10.67 per hour = $26.68. Total pay due employee "C" is therefore $400 + $26.68 + $240 = $666.68.
There is another possible way that nonexempt employees may be paid on a salary, and that is if a salary is intended to compensate at straight time for "all" hours worked by the employee, whether "few or many." This type of straight time pay arrangement is permitted under the FLSA for nonexempt employees whose hours of work vary from work week to work week (and typically when their normal hours vary so that in some weeks they work fewer than 40 hours). Under these circumstances, a salary designed to compensate at straight time for "all" hours worked is called a "salary for fluctuating hours." On this kind of pay plan, the FLSA regular rate arithmetic formula is the same, but it results in some unusual computations.
To determine the regular rate for a nonexempt employee paid a salary for fluctuating hours requires dividing the salary amount by how many hours the employee actually worked in the work week. (Since the salary for fluctuating hours compensates at straight time for "whatever" number of hours were worked, the number of hours it was "intended" to compensate depends on how many hours were in fact worked.) Since (almost by definition), the hours actually worked by such an employee may vary from week to week, the employee's regular rate of pay may also vary from week to week. The more hours were actually worked, the less the regular rate is. For example, if employee "D" receives a $400 "salary for fluctuating hours," and worked 60 hours in some week, the regular rate for that week is $6.67. However, if "D" worked 48 hours in the following week, the regular rate for that week would be $8.33. In the first week, "D" is entitled to 20 hours of FLSA overtime pay, at time and one-half the regular rate of pay for that work week. Time and one-half $6.67 is $10. However, the salary has already compensated "D" at straight time for each hour worked. What "D" is due is "the difference" between the $6.67 regular rate for that week and the $10 FLSA overtime rate for that week, for 20 FLSA overtime hours, or an additional $3.33 per hour for 20 FLSA overtime hours, for a total of $400 + $66.60 = $466.60. In the second week, when "D" worked 48 hours, s/he is due time and one-half of the regular rate of $8.33 for each of the 8 FLSA overtime hours worked. Since s/he has already been paid $8.33 for each of these FLSA overtime hours in the salary, what is due is an additional $4.16 for each FLSA overtime hour. Thus, for the 48 hour week, "D" is due $400 + $33.28 = $433.28. A salary for fluctuating hours is another variation of the type of FLSA overtime pay which is sometimes (but inaccurately) called a "half time" system. Valid wage plans using salaries for fluctuating hours are rare.
STFXG: We all owe you an apology me included. But remember this is based on that particular law firms interpretation of the law. Another firm or court may disagree but for the moment is is the most detailed explaination available. A good piece of work but this is however a matter that is begging for a court challenge or the dreaded class action.
You trust x way too much, you will learn the hard way
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STFXG
Well-Known Member
BTW SPH many contractors are operating illegally. Those above 10k don't have to pay OT. The motor carrier exemption makes that legal. Those under 10k that don't pay OT are breaking labor laws. They should be terminated. I've had this same conversation with guys in my terminal that don't know the law.
STFXG
Well-Known Member
Admittedly, I was in that camp for a while. After researching the topic I went back and self-audited. I keep my routes right around 40-45 hours per week so it wasn't too bad. Writing those checks for back pay wasn't fun.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
The motor carrier exemption does not preclude you from paying your employees for every minute worked. Many of you guys do not compensate your employees beyond 40 hours of work in their paid salary.
