Multiple Contract Question

Ex-Ex

Member
The reason it hasn't been challenged is because the laws suits surrounding the IC model are still ongoing not to mention the NATIONWIDE class action suit involving ERISA. If that one falls the plaintiffs way the damages may be so high that X corporate decides to call it a day as far as the "contractor"format goes.That's why my advice to Mr. Trakker is to consdier among others, contract language, demographics, regional and national economic trends, the ability to protect his equity in litigation, the future supply of cheap labor in his area and above all else litigation both ongoing and what is expected to develop in the future.
Like I said before articulate.
 

Ex-Ex

Member
You know this forum was suppose to be for questions about contracts and it never fails the same :censored2: trolls ruin the topic. We all get it you hate fedex ground so be it. Why don't you crying trolls start a topic about o me o my and you all cry together about how :censored2:ty your experience was with Fedex.
Bingo we have found the one "contractor" in the country that will not accept payment from the lawsuits that's fine it will go back into the pool for all us trolls and cry babies.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Mr. IWBF: as for you question as to how many trucks cover the area I contracted for. The area 34 zip codes stretched acrossed 4 coun ties and included more than 3000 RD carrier miles that were not factored into the core zone.How many trucks covered the area? The answer: 1. Me. As for cheap labor. The best deal I could get for a driver X deemed qualified was 600 per week and that was more than a decade ago. As for a supplemental. No core zone . no van availability no fuel supplement around 200 miles driven for around 40 -50 stops and don't forget truck rental fees . Supplementals lose money period. And as I said before this would not have been a true supplemental. It would have been a noncontracted route and it comes down to the same question I asked you before. What would be the incentive for Ground to convert that noncontracted route to a contracted route when the desired effect was already being realized for $ 30,000 a year less? Nobody has ever offered an answer. As for you Mr. Crozz,all your bragging and bravado will not cloak, disguise or minimize the fact that that all that stands between you and economic ruin is your continued ability to feed X's addiction to cheap trucking and cheap labor, the only reason for which your operation exists.Just wait and see what happens when you can no longer do it.
 

Crozz

Well-Known Member
Mr. IWBF: as for you question as to how many trucks cover the area I contracted for. The area 34 zip codes stretched acrossed 4 coun ties and included more than 3000 RD carrier miles that were not factored into the core zone.How many trucks covered the area? The answer: 1. Me. As for cheap labor. The best deal I could get for a driver X deemed qualified was 600 per week and that was more than a decade ago. As for a supplemental. No core zone . no van availability no fuel supplement around 200 miles driven for around 40 -50 stops and don't forget truck rental fees . Supplementals lose money period. And as I said before this would not have been a true supplemental. It would have been a noncontracted route and it comes down to the same question I asked you before. What would be the incentive for Ground to convert that noncontracted route to a contracted route when the desired effect was already being realized for $ 30,000 a year less? Nobody has ever offered an answer. As for you Mr. Crozz,all your bragging and bravado will not cloak, disguise or minimize the fact that that all that stands between you and economic ruin is your continued ability to feed X's addiction to cheap trucking and cheap labor, the only reason for which your operation exists.Just wait and see what happens when you can no longer do it.
Good thing I have back ups if fedex falls. I have invested in other adventures so I will ride fedex as long as it's alive and then move on.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Crozz: Now you're talking. Don't get so far in debt that you can't leave yourself an out There are so many factors that can negatively impact your bottom line that you have no control over . Most importantly Dan Sullivan's idea of an"independent" contractor was that of a guy upon whom he can dump as much risk, liability and variable costs as humanly possible while retaining total governance and control.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
Bacha, my question was how many trucks cover the area now? I find it hard to believe one truck is still covering the area from a day 1 RPS contract.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
For the first 9 years 1 today there is 1HD and 1 Ground overlapping one another so in the interest of cutting down mileage the area was split in two .HD does the Southern tier Ground the Northern Tier There has been a little bit of growth but not at the pace you are used to. Not enough people or prosperity and nothing but RD's out the wazoo which ranged in size from smallest at 37 miles to the largest at 97 miles. The vast majority of it unpaved township turkey paths with no cross pipes no catch basins and not way to control the runoff which meant nothing but ice in winter. That explains why the trucks were 4x4 equiped ,a Quigley 4x4 conversion and GMC 1 ton.
 

Trakker

Member
I'm amazed by the hostility on here, and I have to side with Crozz. I think everyone agrees that the X Contract Model is terrible and that the scales are tipped completely in their favor. But I can attest, from personal experience with other Corporation's Contracts, License Agreements and Franchises, that this is how ALL companies handle 'contracted' or 'non-employee' entities. It's how they remain profitable for their shareholders. It's also how they control their brand and frankly it's their prerogative. If you choose to sign any such agreement, it's always best to go in with eyes wide open, a good attorney and with the mindset that you won't hedge any bet that you can't afford to lose. It's the same in almost every industry. I would venture to say that if UPS could get one secret wish, it would be to have the same model as X does. Because it's more profitable and far less cumbersome, from a corporate perspective. The simple fact is that there are really bad experiences and there are really good experiences. I will contest that a stable 25% profit margin, with no inventory expense, is not bad in this economy, especially when compared to other shipping contracts and/or retail businesses. Also, unless any of us are completely new to the concept of X or even contracting itself, I don't think we're 'drinking the kool-aid' in such a way to be blind to the facts. It's simply a political game and a numbers game. If you don't want to get rolled over, you have to drink at least some of the kool-aid, just to operate effectively within the contract. And, if you want to be profitable, you have to find clever ways to play with the numbers, to keep your controllable expenses slim and beef up your bottom line. Of course there's going to be people that hate this model. Sometimes I hate this model and ponder how ridiculous it is. But, since I'm in it and have a great deal of capital invested, it does no good to grind my teeth on all the disadvantages of the contract. If that was all I focused on, I'd be looking to sell. Instead, I'm trying to sharpen my teeth on ways to become more profitable within the confines of my contract. X is not going to change for us. So, I'd like to use this forum to find some new and unique ways to become better at managing growth, to lower expenses, combine resources and become more profitable. We should use this chance to collaborate and combine our unique experiences and wisdom to help each other succeed IN SPITE OF the contract. I know some of you have found better ways to operate and even some loopholes in ways to structure your growth. That's what I'd really like to work with other contractors to accomplish. None of us are too big to fail, we could lose our contracts and investments tomorrow. It's less likely that this same thing will happen to X. So, we're all we've got. Why not take advantage of this valuable resource? I think there's a place for all the negativity and discussion about the dark side of X, even if it's just to vent, but maybe in a separate thread, so that potential buyers and people getting ready to sell can go there to solidify their decisions. Because I'm sure none of the Ex-Contractors said these things to their buyers when they gleefully sold and signed over their routes. Nonetheless, I'd still like to collaborate with existing contractors, to help each other get better. Thanks!
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Mr Trakker: Your comments were just another long winded explaination of the same reality. First of all the only reason you are in this and it's your own admission is to make a killing by selling out in 3-5 years. Another "Fastbuck Freddy. I am sorry to tell you that the model does not in any way shape or form exist for the purpose of creating contractor equity. You exist for one purpose and one purpose only and that is to feed the Fedex addiction to cheap trucking and cheap labor and the greatest disservice you could to yourself is to believe otherwise and the contact terms bear it out. You have only one customer and tasked with feeding that addiction and if you can't do it they will get somebody who tells them he can. You talk about the help of an attorney, say hello to a cold hard fact. Upon the conversion to ISP you will so called "negotiate' a new contract with X but and here's the good part. You will not, that's right will NOT be permitted to have your attorney present during the "negotiation". An accused criminal as as part of due process is allowed to have an attorney present but not when it comes to "negotiate" a contract. Moreover the vast majority of the items on the agenda for negotiation are"non- negotiable". You seem like a decent person but you keep trying to apply basic business theory but you don't have the balanced contract terms needed to do so. They might play around with you a little bit but in the end they will accept nothing less that absolute power and control. I mean look at the daily work experience. This is when you start. This is when you stop. This is what you drive This is what you wear. This is where you go. This is how you do it. And oh by the way you are an independent contractorDan Sullivan created his version of an"indepedent contractor' solely for the purpose of having a party upon whom he can dump as much risk ,liability, and variable costs as he could possibly dump on them. Some day you will get tired of it as well . You too will "gleefully" sell to some one . Not because you made a big profit, forget about that but rather simply because you found somebody willing to take it off your hands.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
I mean look at the daily work experience. This is when you start. This is when you stop. This is what you drive This is what you wear. This is where you go. This is how you do it.
That's just not true. No one tells me when to start or stop. They don't tell me what to drive. They don't tell me what to wear. My drivers wear uniforms and they pay me to have them promote the brand. At this point fedex management has no real idea how my operation is run. They don't know what trucks go to what town or what their schedules are. They don't even know my driver's names.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
That is not the way it was or is at the terminal where i operated. Now we are still under IC . Whereby the truck you drive must be be of a design that meets their approval. You will buy fedex and wear fedex uniforms. You will get alist of stops. You will get a list of pickups and when to be there and you had no say whatsoever when it comes to whether or not you wanted that pickup or could be there in time.If you are not there within a certain time after the morning sort is over they start calling wanting to know where you are.If you want to put on a guy he must meet their approval. If you are not back at a certain time in the evening you get a phone call wanting to know where you are not that they are concerned about your safety. Whether it's a big or small terminal the command and control is still absolute it just comes in different forms depending on terminal size and service area demography.
 

FedGT

Well-Known Member
In my terminal there are bulk trucks of all variations, cargo vehicles- GMC, Ford, Nissan, Promasters, Sprinters Ford friend-350 platinums, box trucks, cutaways, sprinters of all sizes, Reaches....... If it is white and can haul packages at a reasonable level it can be approved.

No one can tell us when to start or end. Pickups with a 1, 2, 3+ hour windows don't dictate a schedule. If you still had the old timer mentality about pickups I'm glad you aren't here. That is an antigrowth mentality for yourself along with all the rest of us. Yeah sometimes pickups are more of a hassle than they are worth but that is the only way I and everyone else are getting packages to deliver and grow so deal with it.
 

FedGT

Well-Known Member
I'm amazed by the hostility on here, and I have to side with Crozz. I think everyone agrees that the X Contract Model is terrible and that the scales are tipped completely in their favor. But I can attest, from personal experience with other Corporation's Contracts, License Agreements and Franchises, that this is how ALL companies handle 'contracted' or 'non-employee' entities. It's how they remain profitable for their shareholders. It's also how they control their brand and frankly it's their prerogative. If you choose to sign any such agreement, it's always best to go in with eyes wide open, a good attorney and with the mindset that you won't hedge any bet that you can't afford to lose. It's the same in almost every industry. I would venture to say that if UPS could get one secret wish, it would be to have the same model as X does. Because it's more profitable and far less cumbersome, from a corporate perspective. The simple fact is that there are really bad experiences and there are really good experiences. I will contest that a stable 25% profit margin, with no inventory expense, is not bad in this economy, especially when compared to other shipping contracts and/or retail businesses. Also, unless any of us are completely new to the concept of X or even contracting itself, I don't think we're 'drinking the kool-aid' in such a way to be blind to the facts. It's simply a political game and a numbers game. If you don't want to get rolled over, you have to drink at least some of the kool-aid, just to operate effectively within the contract. And, if you want to be profitable, you have to find clever ways to play with the numbers, to keep your controllable expenses slim and beef up your bottom line. Of course there's going to be people that hate this model. Sometimes I hate this model and ponder how ridiculous it is. But, since I'm in it and have a great deal of capital invested, it does no good to grind my teeth on all the disadvantages of the contract. If that was all I focused on, I'd be looking to sell. Instead, I'm trying to sharpen my teeth on ways to become more profitable within the confines of my contract. X is not going to change for us. So, I'd like to use this forum to find some new and unique ways to become better at managing growth, to lower expenses, combine resources and become more profitable. We should use this chance to collaborate and combine our unique experiences and wisdom to help each other succeed IN SPITE OF the contract. I know some of you have found better ways to operate and even some loopholes in ways to structure your growth. That's what I'd really like to work with other contractors to accomplish. None of us are too big to fail, we could lose our contracts and investments tomorrow. It's less likely that this same thing will happen to X. So, we're all we've got. Why not take advantage of this valuable resource? I think there's a place for all the negativity and discussion about the dark side of X, even if it's just to vent, but maybe in a separate thread, so that potential buyers and people getting ready to sell can go there to solidify their decisions. Because I'm sure none of the Ex-Contractors said these things to their buyers when they gleefully sold and signed over their routes. Nonetheless, I'd still like to collaborate with existing contractors, to help each other get better. Thanks!

There are quite a few of us that are realistic about what this is and have the same outlook as you do my friend. Trying to have a differing opinion with the majority in here does nothing except for them using name calling or a childish response. We are definitely here and appreciate the addition of other centered individuals that know what this is.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Mr.GT: Unlike you guys I don't look at the company through rose colored glasses. I look at it on the basis of it's dark history and it's low road business practices RPS was the product of a late 1970's court ruling whereby if a company that was in a defined benefit pension plan could show that they over contributed they could sue for a refund.Roadway boy wonder sued and the Teamsters had to hork up a 300 million dollar hair ball. That's where he got the money to start RPS and believe me the Teamsters have'nt forgot. I was a Day 1 at one of the first rural terminals to start up. We signed on as 'independent contractors" but we didn't even have goodwill. That's right, NO GOODWILL and NO PROPRIETARY RIGHTS. If you wanted to quit you had to give them a 30 day, that's right 30 day notice . You got nothing for the route and if nobody took the truck lease it went back to leasing company and you walked away nothing except a big credit score black eye. It was only and ONLY under the threat of a 1993 Internal Revenue Service. lawsuit did the company grudgenly grant us goodwill and proprietary rights That is the one and only reason why to day you
arrogant people have multiple routes and the goodwill first required to have them. And you should see what they tried to do to us after the ruling. Today X says that it was an flawed business model. Like hell it was .It was just fine as long as they could get away with it. I could go on all day talking about many other examples of bad treatment of so called contractors but this one indisputable fact stands above all else. What you guys who have come on in recent years have today came as the result and only as the result of the rule of law prevailing.And the future will be more impacted by court rulings than anything else. You newbee's can go on gleefully answering to their every beckon call but I know what the practices of this company were once like and would still be in effect today if the law had not intervened.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
One thing for certain Mr. IWBF ,if those of us who put up with what we had to go through in order to buy enough time to make a better tomorrow for those who followed had known that we were doing it for ungrateful SOB's like you we wouldn't have done it because your snide remarks prove conclusively that you simply do not have the character qualitities needed to be worthy.
 

CJinx

Well-Known Member
How altruistic of you. In reality, though, you were just a guy who bought a job and hung on for dear life in fear of losing your investment.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
One thing for certain Mr. IWBF ,if those of us who put up with what we had to go through in order to buy enough time to make a better tomorrow for those who followed had known that we were doing it for ungrateful SOB's like you we wouldn't have done it because your snide remarks prove conclusively that you simply do not have the character qualitities needed to be worthy.
You have to admit, bacha, to stay for 23 years it couldn't have been all bad.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
One thing for certain Mr. IWBF ,if those of us who put up with what we had to go through in order to buy enough time to make a better tomorrow for those who followed had known that we were doing it for ungrateful SOB's like you we wouldn't have done it because your snide remarks prove conclusively that you simply do not have the character qualitities needed to be worthy.
We've been over this Bacha, I've been with FedEx for 20 years. You did nothing for me, get over yourself. If there were better options for you, you would have left long ago.
 
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