Non Union Members

local804

Well-Known Member
We don't know that. Anti-union comes from management who manages CBUs... I am pro-union, but I can at least see why management seems cold-hearted towards union.



You might not but I do. Do you get paid 15 minutes time bonus if you work passed 8.5 hours? have a 25 and out pension?
We both have a union and our supliments are very different. I am sure the retirees at local 705 are happy as a pig in a ship that they have a union this week.
 

tieguy

Banned
Not sure where you are from (Balt I think) but most top jobs here (NY-Long Island) are union jobs.Our police force SCPD are the highest paid in the nation(yes the nation) school teachers,doctors,sanitation,town workers, firemen are all union.

Considering the point that new york is one of the costliest places to live I would expect thier salaries to be structured accordingly. Again not sure your point counters anything I;ve said otherwise.
 

tieguy

Banned
You might not but I do. Do you get paid 15 minutes time bonus if you work passed 8.5 hours? have a 25 and out pension?
We both have a union and our supliments are very different. I am sure the retirees at local 705 are happy as a pig in a ship that they have a union this week.

you may want to hurry up and retire before the last years stock market results gets reported by your pension plan. I think you get a pittance compared to what ups pays in for your benis'.

The retirees could have just as easily brought the lawsuit without the unions help. It would seem to be logical that the union would argue the case in court since they were the ones that were supposed to be watching the shop. The happiness of any retiree is reletive to what he believes he should get. Why for instance are you folks getting such a pittance while the mechanics retiring have so much more coming to them?Would those same retirees have done much better non-union and collecting from a 401 K match plan they invested in for thirty years? At least with the 401 K they would have a potable plan instead of hoping the union plan did not get drained by last years stock market. Again happiness is what it is. Somehow most of the country is non union with most being very happy. How can that be if the union is so much more beneficial to them

Once you step away from the concept that you are worthless without the union and take an objective look you find that its not all its cracked up to be.
 

bluehdmc

Well-Known Member
collecting from a 401 K match plan they invested in for thirty years? At least with the 401 K they would have a potable plan instead of hoping the union plan did not get drained by last years stock market. Again happiness is what it is. Somehow most of the country is non union with most being very happy. How can that be if the union is so much more beneficial to them

Once you step away from the concept that you are worthless without the union and take an objective look you find that its not all its cracked up to be.

Many people's 401k's have taken a hit by last years stock market, also what has happened to management's 401k match this year?

Is "most of the world" better off without unions? A lot has been said about the auto industry and how Japanese and European automaker who have plants in the US pay "comparable" wages. Yet in their home countries European automakers have unions, they and Japanese automakers don't have the "legacy" health care costs here in the US since they haven't been here that long to have "legacy" workers. In both Europe and Japan they have socialized medicine so they don't have those kind of health care costs at all.

If companies "companies keep their compensation and benifits at a certain level to ensure their employees do not become dissatisfied and join a union. So in reality the threat of unionization may do more for employee compensation plans then unionization itself."
Then why is FedEx so worried about the Railroad Act?

I'm sure we'll never convince tieguy about the benefits of unions, if there wasn't a need for unions they would never have happened. It seems all companies seem to do today is to get around them, and do what they can to keep them out.

 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
...if there wasn't a need for unions they would never have happened.

I would think that even tie would agree that there was a time in our history when unions were essential, both to ensure the safety of our workers and to protect their rights. I do think that we would be hard pressed to present that argument in today's workplace.
 

bluehdmc

Well-Known Member
I would think that even tie would agree that there was a time in our history when unions were essential, both to ensure the safety of our workers and to protect their rights. I do think that we would be hard pressed to present that argument in today's workplace.

I have a neighbor who works for a small manufacturing co. He has not been there very long. He told me they laid off the more senior employees and kept him. So I'm sure he's happy he's non-union, I don't think his laid off co-workers are.
 
teamsters are pushing for a bill to pass <snip> making it much easier to organize those non-union folks. I have to say, I am not sold on the idea that the "check card" bill is a good thing, I can see the opportunity for misuse from both union and company.

So basically what they are doing is a little marketing to show the non-union folks the benifits of joining. Since people who do thier job do not need unions they off course decided to represent these screw ups.


As Sat pointed out, the union by law has to represent equally, non-union workers that do bargaining unit work. That , in a way, eliminates the marketing angle.
Tie, I have seen, I am sure you probably have also, people that would have lost their jobs over some simple non consequential error simply because the manager didn't like them if there had not been a union to help them. I'm not saying that every person that gets terminated should get their job back. Some people should get fired but it should be for something that justifies the action.
 
I found out today that two of the people that are NON-Union are/were having problems on the PL have been represented by "OUR" union rep! One guy was fired for being late too many days. The other guy that is still here has had an issue with following directions.

My question is this. Why do they represent a NON UNION employee that doesn't pay union?
I'm sure you may miss it in all the "debate" going back an forth that little of will answer your question. The union represents these non-union workers because it is the law.
 

local804

Well-Known Member
I'm sure we'll never convince tieguy about the benefits of unions, if there wasn't a need for unions they would never have happened. It seems all companies seem to do today is to get around them, and do what they can to keep them out.


I think we would have a better chance of it snowing in hell.
 
there are exceptions to every rule but generally those who are the screw ups are those that need a union.
The exceptions are the kicker, for me at least. I'm sure it doesn't happen everywhere, but I have seen managers that will target people for ridiculous things, stuff that really doesn't have much to do with being an overall good employee and in general is overlooked when anyone else does that same. These people need a union as much as a screw up and actually deserve the union's protection more so. I have very little sympathy for a driver that refuses to go out everyday and do his/her best to get the job done properly. However anyone can have a bad day every now and then.

Keep in mind most of the world is non-union and those people generally live in the same neighborhoods we live in and somehow seem to survive without the mighty union protecting them.
Have you taken a poll of your neighborhood? What jobs do these people hold that lets them earn the wages and benefits that match ours? I really would like to know what kind of jobs the people dp. How many are, in actuality, just surviving with both spouses working, when as you can read on here many UPSers wives are stay at home Moms? On one side of me the neighbor owns a couple of business that do very well, his wife works a job outside of his businesses to provide insurance for the family. On the other side of me is a retired gentleman that his wife still has to work to make ends meet, I don't know how old she is but he is 82 years old.
Most of the world doesn't work for UPS.
Those people make wages that are as much or more as we make and beni's as good or better as ours.
How do you know this? Really, do you know or you speculating?

The union tells you what a great job they do but in many ways the beni's for non-union employees at ups are better.
I am seriously interested to know how the non-union" beni's" are better, keeping in mind that money directly from their paycheck is paying for them?

Many companies keep their compensation and benifits at a certain level to ensure their employees do not become dissatisfied and join a union. So in reality the threat of unionization may do more for employee compensation plans then unionization itself.

Now we are getting somewhere, it would seem that the employees of these many companies can thank the Teamsters, UAW, AFL-CIO and other unions for encourageing the companies to provide decent wages and benefits.
 
I would think that even tie would agree that there was a time in our history when unions were essential, both to ensure the safety of our workers and to protect their rights. I do think that we would be hard pressed to present that argument in today's workplace.
OH really? Have you not read most of the threads on this message board? There are thousands of posts saying why we (UPSers) have essential need for the union if we plan on making UPS a career choice. I understand that in your part of the UPS world things are not that bad, I say bravo for you and your good luck with you management teams. However I don't see how you can discount the importance of union protection for the rest of the UPS world. Do you honestly believe that your wages would be what they are if not for the Teamsters? I think not. Without the union all of our incomes would be very simular to what non-teamster DHL people were paid. Fed-Ex employees pay are indirectly a reflection of what the teamsters do for us in wages.
In fact some of your own posts on this board you have described things that you do on a regular bases that is never challenged by your bosses, yet in my center you would be disciplined for the very same actions. This is just one example or the need for the union at UPS.
 

tieguy

Banned
Many people's 401k's have taken a hit by last years stock market, also what has happened to management's 401k match this year?

your point being that the company may suspend payments to an individual 401K plan. My point being the overall plan is and will continue to be an excellent benifit. My point being that the 401 K is potably meaning you take it with you and do not have to worry that the union may misinvest it or give it to the mob.

Is "most of the world" better off without unions? A lot has been said about the auto industry and how Japanese and European automaker who have plants in the US pay "comparable" wages. Yet in their home countries European automakers have unions, they and Japanese automakers don't have the "legacy" health care costs here in the US since they haven't been here that long to have "legacy" workers. In both Europe and Japan they have socialized medicine so they don't have those kind of health care costs at all.

I don't know much about the japanease automakers and that would appear to be a selective counter. I own a comfortable house and can afford to driver nice vehicles and I am non union. My neighbors were engineers working for the government. non union and both retired at an early age.One of my neighbors just finished a 300 k addition to his house thanks to his nonunion wages. My neighbors across the street are all non union and living well. One of them buys a nice new truck every two years. I can't afford to buy a new truck every two years. Somehow all of these people are living well without a union to protect thier behinds.

The union sells the message that you are weak and defenseless without them. Pratical application reveals that many and most some survive and live well without the union calling them brother and shielding them from life.
 

MD Dan

Well-Known Member
This a classic example of 'A rising tide lifts all boats'. The higher wages and benefits and better working conditions forced on companies by unions had the effect of the tide coming in and now non union companies pay comparable wages, benefits, etc, -yes- TO KEEP THE UNION OUT. TrplNkl made this point but it seems to have slipped by. The reason that there is a large middle class in this country is directly attributable to the unions and you did not have to be a union member to benefit from it. Professionals (engineers, etc) and members of lower management also benefited. How long could upper management get away with paying their professional workforce and lower management less than their labor?
 

PassYouBy

Unknown Acrobat
I'm sure you may miss it in all the "debate" going back an forth that little of will answer your question. The union represents these non-union workers because it is the law.

Then why in the hell am I paying union dues?:angry: If these MFKERS can be represented by MY union for free, then why in the hell am I paying for union dues?

When I heard this yesterday I came unglued. So basically my money is saving there ass?!

I have never had a reason for the Union to represent me and I hope I never do....(Maybe I should just quit the union because I know now I am entitled to representation for FREE.) BULL******:angry:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tieguy
Since people who do thier job do not need unions they off course decided to represent these screw ups.

Pretty much sums it up right there.
I don't know why I let this pass till now, but I beg to differ.
In our center we had a 30 year driver who's odometer just quit working during the day, it showed him with like 30 miles on a route that averaged 250-300 miles per day. When he returned to the center he wrote it up on the DVIR and because there was no full time management in the building he asked the OMS/specialist what he should do. The OMS told him to estimate his mileage, he did so. His estimated miles entered was 275. The next morning he talked to the center manager and was told that was OK to do that. 3 months later the odometer still had not been replaced and he had kept writing up the problem and estimating the same miles because his route rarely changed in logistics and he had been told it was OK. They fired him for dishonesty. He missed 2 months work and wages for this atrocity. He reluctantly accepted the company's offer to return him to work without back pay or reinstatement of lost time to his retiement contributions becuase he was afraid an arbitrator would not side with him and he was too close to his planed retirement date. He had always done his job without too much harassment but when they had him over a barrel they exploited the oprotunity. Now, try again to tell me that no one doing their job needs a union.
 

Fnix

Well-Known Member
Europe is almost %80 union and they have a higher standard of living then us Americans. The rest of the world? Do you mean South America, Africa, Asia? They do not live in the same neighborhoods as us and have terrible working/living qualities.
 
Then why in the hell am I paying union dues?:angry: If these MFKERS can be represented by MY union for free, then why in the hell am I paying for union dues?

When I heard this yesterday I came unglued. So basically my money is saving there ass?!

I have never had a reason for the Union to represent me and I hope I never do....(Maybe I should just quit the union because I know now I am entitled to representation for FREE.) BULL******:angry:
I don't disagree with you, I don't like it much either, but do you really want to lower yourself to their level? I would guess not.
 
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