Peak advice.

gixxer squid

Well-Known Member
I like bbsam too, he has a sense of humor. He has given it back to me in the past. I like 99% of my fellow contractors, like you said we are all in the same boat and I think he defends x because he has a nice payday coming when he sells as long as things stay status quo. Our biggest disagreement is that I was forced to sell by x and he thinks x can't change the rules on him in the future to force him out.


I wouldn't say any of us contractors are Naive enough to think that if the Godfather wanted our head, we would be done.

We started out with 2 trucks Bounty, sad part is we made the same$$ if not more money running the two trucks versus the 9 we have now. I think the only that increases are the stresses and headache and employee babysitting cause it sure as heck isn't the money. Go figure.
 

NYCFXG

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say any of us contractors are Naive enough to think that if the Godfather wanted our head, we would be done.

We started out with 2 trucks Bounty, sad part is we made the same$$ if not more money running the two trucks versus the 9 we have now. I think the only that increases are the stresses and headache and employee babysitting cause it sure as heck isn't the money. Go figure.

There is a guy that just got bought out that had been doing 200 stops a day for the last 3 years by himself and on really heavy days had his son help him. He makes more money than any of us. More routes does not mean more money. It means more money required to keep up with the growth. My biggest mistake was buying my routes because they were poised for the highest growth. I got exactly what I bargained for. My avg volume increased over 30% and the money required to keep up with it eats into what I should be putting towards my initial investment. Common theme in conversations between us contractors is we don't do this for profit, we do it for equity. That would be all well and good if the market was liquid and people were buying routes. But, no one in their right mind would get into this business if they knew what it was all about.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
There is a guy that just got bought out that had been doing 200 stops a day for the last 3 years by himself and on really heavy days had his son help him. He makes more money than any of us. More routes does not mean more money. It means more money required to keep up with the growth. My biggest mistake was buying my routes because they were poised for the highest growth. I got exactly what I bargained for. My avg volume increased over 30% and the money required to keep up with it eats into what I should be putting towards my initial investment. Common theme in conversations between us contractors is we don't do this for profit, we do it for equity. That would be all well and good if the market was liquid and people were buying routes. But, no one in their right mind would get into this business if they knew what it was all about.

Bingo. In the past, you had a lot of interest in the purchase of Ground routes, primarily from investors/entrepreneurs who had never worked in the transportation industry, but some who had. Most potential buyers have little understanding about how capital intensive the delivery business is, and how easily you can be dumping big money into a losing proposition. FDX has structured it so they are always protected and will get a lion's share of the profits.

Now, the numbers aren't really adding-up, and ISPs are going to be stuck with a business they can't sell, except at a loss. Remember all of those ads a few years back with Ground routes and vehicles going for bargain basement prices, before FedEx ponied-up? Looks like it's going to happen again...another cleanout.
 

gixxer squid

Well-Known Member
Great posts, you TWO above hit the darn nail right on the very head. I mean square on the head.

My thought process though I could be mistaken, the investor now that has to make a larger capital outlay with the 5 route/PSA/ISP whatever you wanna call it minimum is MOST likely not your blue collar worker. It is most likely someone educated with money who is not going to put up with this bull :censored2: for long. If X doesn't do some damage control sooner than later, I forsee the "cash cow" running out of milk.
 

NYCFXG

Well-Known Member
The only way to sell nowadays is by building a solid workforce and then employ a responsible manager. I am working towards that exact construct. I am poised to feast on the failures that will occur around me during peak and during the ISP transition. I plan on selling fairly soon after ISP conversion is completed. By then I will have more than doubled my operation. Then I just have to trick some dope into believing the business is "turn-key".

Obviously, this is all contingent on many factors. But, I am focused and determined to get the heck out of this business.
 

Purplepackage

Well-Known Member
So here's a question I've always had.

Money is made in ground routes that are tight and have over 100 stops going out daily correct?

So is there such thing as rural ground routes? Like in the area that my station services we have more than 1 rural route that does at least 200 miles a day and can do 80-90 stops maxed out and that's gettin back at 7:30. But I can possibly see a ground contractor signing up to lose money like that
 

overflowed

Well-Known Member
So here's a question I've always had.

Money is made in ground routes that are tight and have over 100 stops going out daily correct?

So is there such thing as rural ground routes? Like in the area that my station services we have more than 1 rural route that does at least 200 miles a day and can do 80-90 stops maxed out and that's gettin back at 7:30. But I can possibly see a ground contractor signing up to lose money like that
I know a ex HD contractor now an Express employee for many years. He had a rural route. He said they get more money per package to service those areas. He was a single van owner that sold when things started getting more complicated.
 

Purplepackage

Well-Known Member
I know a ex HD contractor now an Express employee for many years. He had a rural route. He said they get more money per package to service those areas. He was a single van owner that sold when things started getting more complicated.

That makes sense I just can't see it being worth it. The funny part is rural areas are exploding with buisness those are the busiest express routes
 

Bounty

Well-Known Member
There is a guy that just got bought out that had been doing 200 stops a day for the last 3 years by himself and on really heavy days had his son help him. He makes more money than any of us. More routes does not mean more money. It means more money required to keep up with the growth. My biggest mistake was buying my routes because they were poised for the highest growth. I got exactly what I bargained for. My avg volume increased over 30% and the money required to keep up with it eats into what I should be putting towards my initial investment. Common theme in conversations between us contractors is we don't do this for profit, we do it for equity. That would be all well and good if the market was liquid and people were buying routes. But, no one in their right mind would get into this business if they knew what it was all about.
I was exactly like the guy your talking about, but then my route turned into 250 a day and I grew tired. Hired someone and profits were gone. More stops meant less money. X kept dangling the carrot about how I was being considered for another route but those went to the teachers pet. In the long run I think they did me a favor not awarding a route to me.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
I know a ex HD contractor now an Express employee for many years. He had a rural route. He said they get more money per package to service those areas. He was a single van owner that sold when things started getting more complicated.

I would imagine Ground mirrors our residential and rural surcharges, hence the higher revenue per package.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Guys you are all spot on. I worked in a depressed rural area. Most of the so called roads were unpaved township turkey paths and in the winter those roads and the even worse private lanes were suicide missions pure and simple. One of my trucks was E350 cutwaway 7.3L powerstroke with Quigley 4X4 conversion and it was all it wanted in the winter. Our first terminal manager said to me" Look it's a rotten deal. The worst I have ever seen in the all the years I have been in this business. Neverless you signed it. But here is how you can survive.. Keep borrowed money to a minimum and limit your exposure to risk and to variable costs to only that which you cannot avoid." So guys give them enough to get them off your back. Deleverage as quickly as possible. Don't perform extra duties or handle extra volume that you are not contractually require to service especially if you have to do it at a loss. Because as you guys have learned or will soon learn. With X stop gap measures often become permanent solutions. As those of us a our small terminal quickly learned when it comes to additional routes,by the time you give that guy in the truck what he has earned for himself, a family sustaining wage, an emplyer paid healthcare plan and a pension plan, there is so little left you might as well just give him the route and that's what we did.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
I don't kow what STFXG is talking about. Here is an example of what I had to deal with. Now until some time in late 2016 or 2017 we will still work off the old core zone formula. Now one of my CZ's is in theview of FXG 25 strem miles from the terminal driving in a straight line to the little town (pop 5900) in the center of the core zone and that's what the CZ was based on But what the formula didn't factor in was this towns 480 mile RD carrier net work that stretched across 3 rural counties. In fact the local school district was 300 square miles in size and the RD extended beyond it. Yet it was stll based on driving in a straight line to that town. I tried to get through to them but they are so city minded they didn't understand So I asked them this. " If it's 25 miles down and 25 miles back and requires may 5 miles to do the town How come I drive 180+miles every day just to do that one CZ'? They just walked away.
 

dvalleyjim

Well-Known Member
OK, think about this Ron (if you can think at all). Your company is soooo greedy that you don't even care if you service your customers. A company that doesn't give a rat's aXX about it's customers surely doesn't care about it's employees, ISP's and somewhere way down the line the drivers who actually deliver your packages to your customers and who the customer see's as FedEx incarnate. We aren't even employees. Talk about a company that has lost it's focus. Ron, you suck and deserve to lose your job!
 

STFXG

Well-Known Member
I don't kow what STFXG is talking about. Here is an example of what I had to deal with. Now until some time in late 2016 or 2017 we will still work off the old core zone formula. Now one of my CZ's is in theview of FXG 25 strem miles from the terminal driving in a straight line to the little town (pop 5900) in the center of the core zone and that's what the CZ was based on But what the formula didn't factor in was this towns 480 mile RD carrier net work that stretched across 3 rural counties. In fact the local school district was 300 square miles in size and the RD extended beyond it. Yet it was stll based on driving in a straight line to that town. I tried to get through to them but they are so city minded they didn't understand So I asked them this. " If it's 25 miles down and 25 miles back and requires may 5 miles to do the town How come I drive 180+miles every day just to do that one CZ'? They just walked away.
How much was your core zone? I would guess in the $90 range? 180 miles isn't much. Of course they calculate it based on miles and not what the roads are actually like. They don't know that. Sounds like a garbage route.
 
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