Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by upsftmgr, Dec 21, 2008.
Anyone heard anything about doing away with PE?
Ive heard about it once when I first started they wanted to combine it with IE but i havent heard anything about it since
What will they call it then? PIE?
Really? No more Phys Ed?
Do we really need PE? Does it make us any money? I'm no expert, but does it take a rocket scientist to make those decisions?
Oh, I guess any support function could be outsourced, and I would think all of them have been looked at for outsourcing. Just like the core functions, there is always someone out there willing to do the job cheaper, but the question that needs to be considered is, can that outside party do it as well, and with the same commitment to excellence.
We've had outside plant eng for years at our center without much apparent problem. Our fleet mechanics take core of emergency matters, but the things that can wait are all outside sources.
i have seen those guys just change light bulbs.. lol.
In our center the fleet mechanics delt with issues before they hired like three, and even that.. most skilled work is done by out source.
Are PE the guys who come in during the day and fix the belt and rollers and build extra sets of rollers for peak ?? Those guys in our center are all outside contractors and not UPS employees.
PE keeps the buildings running, and are needed in large hubs, as they do preventative work as well. They are also responsible for all building projectss for the district, so they do in some cases cover a few districts.
And PE currently falls under the IE function, along with Automotive, which eliminated Distict level Staff Managers, at a cost savings to UPS.
As, noted above, all the Staff functions can be outsourced, and is probably going to happen someday. With technology today, someone can be sitting at home, viewing reports, and dispatching work where needed. The only concern I would have is how the work would be prioritized, followed up on, and timeliness of the resolution to the problem.
Up in my area, instead of the IE mgr becoming the engineering mgr and covering those 3 functions. They still have a PE div mgr and an auto div mgr. But these folks cover 2 districts instead of just one. The IE mgr still covers just the one district.
We all should be concerned when UPS decides to outsource any of our functions. You know more than likely that the outside companies they hire will not be union workers at prevailing wage rates. If they were than why outsource?
Remember, the next job they outsource could be your own. And the more UPS tries to take any skill out of the way we do our jobs the more likely that will happen. To me that is partly what EDD/PAS is all about.
As for the light bulb crack, PE takes care of the physical plant. Who else is supposed to change them? Why is that not a credible use of their time?
They can't out source any pe jobs as long there is actively pe guys working in that particular building. You can't layoff people and then bring in outside contractors to do there work, its against our contract. They can however not fill a job after its vacated but before they bring in any outside service they have to offer the overtime to the union guys. House keeping is a good example. Parcel made every house keeping job a red circle job (not going to be filled). So if you retired it wasn't going to be put up for bid. Eventually enough people retired and they hired an outside company to clean the hub. There aren't to many union house keeping jobs left.....
Are the porters part of PE?
In a round about way sort of. They do there time cards through PE and there work is assigned there. But they don't make what a PE mech makes.....
that's just too funny. even funnier; it could just make the reasoning for someone to decide to do it.
Older or injured drivers look for those jobs to get off of the road. It is actually one of the primo jobs in our building (not for the toilet cleaning i am sure) because of the hours. They make, I believe, just about as much as the drivers but without the overtime.
I asked because I was wondering if outsourcing means one less inside job for you soon to be old folks.
Our PE mechanics are kept pretty busy, particularly when (as present) there's a lot of pressure to have no ot. On the other hand, our PE mgr brought in an outside contractor to repair the mechanism on the WASP roller rack assembly carriers (are these confusingly called "TOFCs" elsewhere?) which is supposed to prevent the ramps from sliding back into the carriers when struck by trailer-exiting roller rack assemblies.
Our DECR process is a joke, but it won't be improved by not having a PE manager.
Re: Plant Engineering IS HISTORY...I know why...
PLEASE GET A CLUE. GETTING RID OF PE??? WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU THINKING? THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER WAYS TO SAVE MONEY!
It ain't just PE folks!!! Why again? The game is set up for as many people as possible to NOT make at least partial retirement--that's right--NOT make partial retirement AND it's getting worse. Remember, 55 is NOT full retirement. It is a partial benefit retirement with full healthcare.
It used to be, UPS saved enormous costs by losing people before they reached full retirement. "Go ahead leave before 62 take your stock you have enough!" They begged you.
Now the age is 55. I have seen so many uncomfortable moves made to people when they reach 54 to 56 years of age it would make your head spin.
But it starts earlier. Like when you have 20 years in or so...maybe not coincidentally about the time you reach 40 Do you suppose, perhaps that UPS might actually have the "just pay the parking ticket if we're caught" mentality???"
No way....NOT UPS....NOT THE COMPANY THAT HAS LOST MILLIONS IN LAWSUITS and fines BOTH PUBLISHED AND NON-PUBLISHED. They would never analyze legal affairs when it comes to cost...NO WAY NOT UPS??? ARE you kidding??? HOW DO YOU THINK IT OBTAINED MARKET CAPS OF BILLIONS AT ONE POINT...LAWSUITS, LABOR AGREEMENTS AND FEDERAL FINES--THEY ARE ALL A FUNCTION OF COST! What if the possibility of a risk of a ticket is outweighed by the amount generated in savings??
For individuals not whole departments,it starts right about the time that it makes little economic sense for a managment person to leave. And in the case of job fearing, anxiety ridden, and depressed demoted people, UPS reaps the benefit of now less expensive intellectual talent with about 10 to 15 years to spare before early retirement.
Now consider the money saved by not just demoting the older employee, even more saved if that management employee is over 40 and forced out by health related or bonus if other personal matters force a departure.
So is PE going away? Well yesssssss....I believe it is, along with much of the rest of the company, but more from some demographic groups than from others.
There are many age related savings UPS has been successful in adapting without a whimper of lawsuit. Who in their right mind would take UPS on when they are fully employed with nothing to lose except 20 years or so. Call the 800 line? What are you kidding. People actually do that?? I want to know who has ever called the 800 line and actually got something accomplished.
I mean from what I have observed, They only promote people in their 30's and only hire people in their 20's. Please wake up and take a look around. Do your own stroke count!!
HR, Please don't tell me that only less than 30 year olds apply and no over 40's are looking for work as managers or supervisors and no drivers jobs are available. I mean UPS does hire management from the outside, but even those people are not over 40 from what I have seen....too close to FULL RETIREMENT!!
Take a look at how old the people are who are demoted, Take a look at who replaces the demoted individual if you can see through the 3 or 4 way move and swaps that invariably means a promotion for a 20 or early 30 something. Alot of those people take a demotion only to do about the same job they were doing before the demotion-except they are now paid less.
Take a look at who are the ones that are out on stress and anxiety disability or worse. Over 40? I know the answer. You should to. It's for your own good.
Make note which ones are quitting. Note how old the people are that are being moved without being promoted and then note who is being moved AND being promoted!
Yes many younger management are leaving, but guess what? If it's a 50/50 split UPS does not have anything to worry about when it comes to EEOC and reaps the benefit of putting another less costly employee in place of hopefully not reaching even a partial retirement!
Do you really truly believe the pressure coming from above is accidental or not planned? Here's an idea, lets combine jobs and ask that the same work gets done. No one will have a clue it is designed to get as many older management to fall as possible....unless someone is smart enough to look (normally only the managment out west are smart enough to look and NOT BE AFRAID).
Lets make the manager or supervisor run the local sort and preload but not provide any more resources, maybe even take some away!! This started in the south (I have record from Selma, Alabama. The sups were given a driver line of 20 to 30 and the local sort.) The older employee leaving is BONUS!
Performance problem? Integrity matters? Guaranteed a factor....but isn't it odd the number of integrity and performance issues seem to multiply as you are overworked, humiliated or berated? Why are there so many over 40's with this malady? Do your own stroke count.
Do you really think the company is dumb enough to think that for the same performance with reduced resources that they will NOT lose people??? Of course they are not!!! THEY ARE BANKING ON IT!! IT'S THEIR GOAL TO LOSE PEOPLE!! $$>PEOPLE!! OTHERWISE IT'S PEOPLE>$$ AND THAT IS A PROBLEM-- SAVVY??
Hmmmm....now do your own homework. I guarantee you will see a trend that no one is looking at but the people who account for cost from retirees and older management. That isn't PE. That's corporate finance.
You don't think they know down to the death benefit on the average UPS person what drives legacy costs and savings and where the preponderance of people most likely to draw that benefit are in terms of age? I have a division manager's opinion in Michigan that says they do.
I think you need to do your own evaluations about what really is happening. Love to hear your opinion...after you do statistically relevant stroke counting in your own district. I know what's happening in mine and a couple of others.
Windier than a sack of farts. ^
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