Presidential Candidates

moreluck

golden ticket member
Reiner is a blowhard when he spouts politics.....he needs to stick to making movies. He was great as "Meathead" to Carrol O'Conner's Archie.
There are more that I don't like in Hollywood because of their politics.....Danny Glover, Sean Penn, Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins, Rosie O'Donnell, Sidney Poitier........and he was in my favorite all time movie, Guess Who's Coming To Dinner.

They all need to stick to show business. And now, Oprah is going to campaign for Obama. Oh brother! She can't even keep child abusers out of her small private school.:sick:
 

Sammie

Well-Known Member
We're an open minded country. I think Hillary will be Pres, (first woman President), Obama will be V.P., (first African American V.P.), and with their golden visions of change (change to what?? :() to the new socialist state of America, we shall be come the Republic of America. For those of you who might be a bit worried about this, Bill will be there. Who doesn't like Bill? He could do the job with his eyes shut. He can do it again. No worries. And here's a warm and fuzzy - he could become the new Goodwill Ambassador. (Before he becomes a senator in N.Y.) That would help our world wide image. We'll show this planet that this is not a country of sexists (or sex maniacs) or racists. Of course, that depends on what "is" is...

(For those of you not in the know, we are a republic. We've never been a democracy.)

Hillary and her excess baggage will be an interesting choice, but my vote still goes to the straight man who dressed in drag....
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
We're an open minded country. I think Hillary will be Pres, (first woman President), Obama will be V.P., (first African American V.P.), and with their golden visions of change (change to what?? :() to the new socialist state of America, we shall be come the Republic of America. For those of you who might be a bit worried about this, Bill will be there. Who doesn't like Bill? He could do the job with his eyes shut. He can do it again. No worries. And here's a warm and fuzzy - he could become the new Goodwill Ambassador. (Before he becomes a senator in N.Y.) That would help our world wide image. We'll show this planet that this is not a country of sexists (or sex maniacs) or racists. Of course, that depends on what "is" is...

(For those of you not in the know, we are a republic. We've never been a democracy.)

Hillary and her excess baggage will be an interesting choice, but my vote still goes to the straight man who dressed in drag....

Sammie,

I'm no fan of Hillary at all but at the same time I think certain political interests are making her out to be a poltical boogie man that she ain't. I do think she has some issues on a personal level of how she treats and views other people and I almost equate her on the same level as Richard Nixon. I do think she's capable of that type of manical thought processes.

As to actual positions politically? When you boil it down on issue to issue, she may have a few things here and there different but for the most part it'll about be status quo and people on the so-called left who were considered where her core support would come from are realizing this and going elsewhere. Recently in the area of the war and MiddleEast situation, she voted for the Kyl-Lieberman Amendment which leaves open the door for military action against Iran. If she was so opposed to what Bush and the so-called "Neo-cons" are doing, then why vote to support this bill? She is smart and wants to leave all her options open on the table if she does become President and she also knows if that happens Kyl and Lieberman would likely be voting the opposite as this is how politics works.

Remember, she was right there in the middle when her husband and his band of merrymen also played their empire games and went NationBuiding in the Balkans and threw around a few cruise missles and a couple of hot zones military actions of his own all to the clamoring opposition of the "Loyal Opposition" known as the republican party. I may disagree with Bush and his policy but at least he had the balls to step up and lay it all out on the table and be honest about it rather than hiding in the bushes (no pun) so to speak so the so-called anti-empirical left wouldn't wake up to what was really happening. Then again, they knew it but it was "their guy!" Funny how that crap works.

We've all heard the horror stories going around about Hillary's revenge when it comes to people that cross her or try and make her look bad. She goes for the throat and some have suggested the Clinton machine has even had folks killed. Let's consider for the moment all this is true and that Hillary really is Satan in a dress as some of you allege. What happens if Hillary is sitting in the WH and things are going along nicely for her and then all of a sudden some terrorist does something that makes her look bad. I dare say if all we've heard about Hillary and her scorn is true and what she does to people that make her look bad is equally true and all you guys are so afraid of the "islamo-fascist", if some towelhead terrorist made her look bad, she might nuke the entire MiddleEast and end this whole problem once and for all.

That being the case, you guys are so willing to give up all your other rights to make you think you're protected from these idiots, aren't you willing to give up you good healthcare in exchange for someone who would actually "kill them all and let God sort them out" kinda mentality when the time is right?

And you think I'm kidding here! Makes perfect sense IMO.
 

Sammie

Well-Known Member
Sammie,

I'm no fan of Hillary at all but at the same time I think certain political interests are making her out to be a poltical boogie man that she ain't. I do think she has some issues on a personal level of how she treats and views other people and I almost equate her on the same level as Richard Nixon. I do think she's capable of that type of manical thought processes.

What happens if Hillary is sitting in the WH and things are going along nicely for her and then all of a sudden some terrorist does something that makes her look bad. I dare say if all we've heard about Hillary and her scorn is true and what she does to people that make her look bad is equally true and all you guys are so afraid of the "islamo-fascist", if some towelhead terrorist made her look bad, she might nuke the entire MiddleEast and end this whole problem once and for all.

That being the case, you guys are so willing to give up all your other rights to make you think you're protected from these idiots, aren't you willing to give up you good healthcare in exchange for someone who would actually "kill them all and let God sort them out" kinda mentality when the time is right?

And you think I'm kidding here! Makes perfect sense IMO.

Wkmac,

No one can begin to predict how a new leader would react against
another terrorist attack. But I do know that this woman is attached to more scandal and controversy than anyone I could think of at the moment and with her track record of truthfulness, she is not the person
who should be leading the free world.

Papers? What papers? She claims that her years in the WH as one stunning qualification to put her back there again. Yet at Fort Knox #2,
otherwise known as the Clinton Library, only 1/2 of 1 % of 78 million pages and 20 million e-mails have been made public, which can only be approved by Mr. Bill. :censored2::censored2::censored2: are they hiding? Why don't we deserve to know what she wants to bring to the table again? This hidden knowledge deals with welfare reform, health care and foreign policy, and you know none of it will be released until after the elections. And I'll bet you a dollar we won't find out afterwards, either. No president other than Willy has ever put controls over releasing their wives paperwork.

Yes, Hill is very intelligent and it's too bad she channels most of it towards double speak. I cannot fathom one human being in this United States who could seriously think of this woman as our next President. The entire Clinton administration was one cover up after another after another. And that's going to change now? :no:

Her past speaks for itself. The two of them are their own worst nightmare and so crooked they can't see straight. Find him a woman, bribe the secret service outside the hotel room door and he'll be just fine. She's a socialist who would bleed the Average Joe dry because it won't be the Big Wheels she's in cahoots with who will be paying for her lame a** ideas. All America wants is truth, honesty and FULL DISCLOSURE. We won't have the current president to blame for our problems if she is elected, only ourselves. And in the future, term limits for the Pres should include the wife too.

Kerry gave the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth all the ammo they needed when he refused to release his military records. Which is what Hillary is doing as we speak.

As Dr. Phil would say, "How'd that work out for you?"

P.S. - I know why she's really up for election - they didn't steal enough furniture the first time.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Sammie....I would love to see a woman president.......but Hillary is not the one!! I don't trust her any further than I can throw her....which is not very far with those fat calves. :lol:

No Billary in '08 !!!!!!!!!!!!1
 

Sammie

Well-Known Member
Sammie....I would love to see a woman president.......but Hillary is not the one!! I don't trust her any further than I can throw her....which is not very far with those fat calves. :lol:

No Billary in '08 !!!!!!!!!!!!1

"Women are like tea bags. You never know how strong they are until you put them in hot water."

Finland, Ireland, Chile and New Zealand, to name a few, are led by females and consider Indira Gandhi, Golda Meir, Benazir Bhutto, Margaret Thatcher and Queen Elizabeth.

I wouldn't mind a woman Prez either. It's probably high time we elected one. In fact, it wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit if a certain person with
some very powerful credentials ran in the near future, the one who was a piano prodigy at 3, a college graduate at 19, a college professor at 26, a senior White House advisor at 34 and a chief operating officer and chief financial officer of Stanford at 36. We could do a lot worse than Condoleezza!

(I was going to mention earlier that I trust Hill about as far as I could throw those fat calves but I just couldn't bring myself to do it....:no::laugh:)
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Sammie,

Let me say this about my view of Hillary and I'll move on.

First off, Republicans really want her to win the nomination. That's right, they want her to win. Several reasons why but the 1st and foremost is in polling data for a national general election she scores the worse but she also has a track record that is easily manipulated and thrown around in the general election for strategic advantage. Her negatives in the eyes of the general public seem to overshadow her positives in polling data. Hillary also ignites the core shocktroopers of the Republican party and it will take her as a candidate IMO to really mobilize especially the Christian right around a Mitt Romney(Mormon who fundamentalist Christians believe is a cult) or Rudy (he's Catholic but far worse he's pro choice) who IMO either one is likely to win the nomination. Hillary is seen by this group as Satan incarnate so the repub. core will make a deal with Beelzabub to keep Satan herself from accending the thrown of David. LOL!

Contary to the straw man myth of the republican choirboys that dominate opinion sources, Hillary is more a moderate that a hardline lefty as some would like to paint her and her Senate voting record seems to support some of that thinking. Sure, she's gone out on the edge a time or 2 but she has too in order to keep the hardcore left of her party marching to the party tune. Reagan would speak on Pro-Life day in the cold of Jan. but did he ever really push hard legislation to do anything about it? Did he ever really venture out on that edge with legislative proposals to end the process once and for all? No, not really. Sure, I'm give him he was realist and the chances of being successful were slim and none but if you are a principled person, it's when the chances are slim and none that you hold even tighter those core values. As they like to say, What would Jesus Do? Don't kid yourself, Jesus was hardcore!

On the flipside, that same left hardcore group is flopping in the wind because of Hillary's past votes on the war and her connection to the DLC (Democratic Leadership Council) which in reality is a Neo-Con lite if you will. The DLC was all behind Bill's attempt in 1998' to revamp and even some privatizing of the federal entitlement programs including Social Security (even Al gore wanted some SS privatizing) but instead of using their position of being in the catbird seat because of all of Bill's shortcomings coming to light and using it like a stick to steer the effort, they went for political overthrow. We got impeachment instead and when the repub's tired the same thing early in Bush's term to revamp SS, the democrats blocked it as payback for not moving with them in 98' when they had the chance. The republicans had so little principle as their core values, that the desire for pure power overshadowed what little princple they thought they had.

Hillarycare in 1993'. You know what I find so interesting about that proposal? One of the biggest supporters of that effort was none other than General Motors and they weren't alone either. A number of big business interests were in support of that effort. I would be too if all of a sudden I could eliminate in the signing of a single law that would allow me to take billions of dollars I'm spending on employee and retiree healthcare and place that immediately to the bottomline profit of my company. Hillary a collectivist lefty? Not hardly, sounds more like a Mussolini Fascist to me! But what about her plan today? It amazes me that so many business leaders like Warren Buffet are backing Hillary with various efforts. http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/6/27/71845.shtml If Hill was so marxist and had a record of such, I doubt Warren and friends would be backing her on any level unless it's your contention that Warren is marxist too. As a nearly 10 year stockholder in Berkshire Hathaway and having read a lot about Warren and especially his annual Q&A's that he and Charlie Munger have with Shareholders, Warren is not a marxist by any stretch.

Again, some of the hype in IMO is a straw dog because some of Hillary's ideas on healthcare came as a result of a series of discussions Hillary had with Newt Gingrich on the issue of Healthcare back in 2005'. Don't believe me? OK, would you believe Newt himself? Here you go. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4790698 Hillary proposing healthcare ideas straight from the chief saint of the American right wing and Repblican Hall of Fame!

As I said, Hillary has some real personal issues as it relates to dealing with people and some character flaw issues but as I said, this is a norm not an anamoly when you get to this level of power and dealing with people who get to that level. Some just hide it better than others. Hillary at the end of the day when it come to domestic and foreign policy won't differ that much from her husband. You can say what you want about Bill but other than his brain going between his legs at times, he is a pretty smart guy. Didn't say I agreed with the man but he is smart.

Case in point? Reaganomics. Clinton came into office with the democrats howling for a return to the "good ole' days" but Clinton understood one important fact. Economic cycle. Clinton understood that Reagan had changed some things in regards to economic policy (1982' TEFRA Act and the 1986' Tax Code that completely replaced the 1954' Tax Code)and he also understood that Reagan during his tenure took the lion's share of the beating as the fallout from economic changes take place early in the cycle, generally speaking. As the Bush 1 years concluded, it didn't take much of a rocket scientist to understand that a nice extended boom cycle would happen if one left well enough alone and Bill did. He also understood the importance of this new concept of international economic growth (a key point of the DLC by the way as well as the Neo-Cons) so he went to work on such things as NAFTA and the WTO and the rest is history as they say. Clinton was smart enough to throw the hardliners of his party a bone from time to time but for the most part Reaganomics continued forth. Hillary was right there the whole time and I contend she will do many of the same things. Now her bones to the hardliners may be a bit less palitible to you repubs. but in the nuts and bolts of policy, it won't mean much at all IMO.

Hillary much to the displeasure of the anti-war left even voted for the Kyl-Lieberman amendment leaving the door open to hit Iran if need be because in the end Hillary really is an Empiress looking for an empire to lead and the Neo-Cons have built her one made to special order. I almost want her to win just to sit back and watch her unleash the very things you guys defended of Bush's actions on your iconic leaders. Makes me just giddy thinking about it! Something Ron Paul once said comes to mind,

BLOWBACK! :wink2:

Another reason IMO Hillary is demonized by the republican neo-cons is that they won't you to actually look at her record and then consider what she is proposing because if the repubs win the election and the republs continue their reindeer games, you'll jut your head back and say:

"Wait a minute, how is this any different than what Hillary was proposing?" And then the gig is up! That is really what they fear.

That's my take and POV of Hillary so go ahead and fear what's really not there to begin with if you wish! I wouldn't vote for her in a gazillion years as she reminds me of Nxon to be honest but I don't fear her policy anymore than I fear the policies of the republican frontrunners. To me, it's the exact same meal just served on a different plate!
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
If you haven't seen this clip - do yourself a favor. It's pretty refreshing to see someone in the political spotlight not skirt an issue such as this. Notice the commentator's reaction versus the audience's. I don't think this went the way the commentator hadhoped.

 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Just caught about half of the rep. debate the other night. I hadn't watched any to date. I was not at all impressed with Ron Paul.

He'll be on my elimination list. Rudy, Mitt & Mike are still on my list of possibles.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Hey Moreluck,

You might ask your favorite frontrunners what their specific plan is to do about this growing problem.

Do they plan on continuing the Bush doctrine on this?
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Any candidate can have a "perfect" spending/budget plan and then anything can come along and screw it up. It happens to all of us in our own household budgets.

In our household budgets, the 'bump' might be..."Johnny needs braces now".

In the national budget the "bump in the road" to the perfect plan might be, "They are blowing up what?!!"

Candidates can say anything, but occurences will change the best of plans.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Any candidate can have a "perfect" spending/budget plan and then anything can come along and screw it up. It happens to all of us in our own household budgets.

In our household budgets, the 'bump' might be..."Johnny needs braces now".

In the national budget the "bump in the road" to the perfect plan might be, "They are blowing up what?!!"

Candidates can say anything, but occurences will change the best of plans.

You are absolutely right More but what else do we say when these things pop up. WE CUT SPENDING! We don't take vacations, we don't buy new cars or that new furniture for the livingroom we were all set to buy. In some extreme cases if need be, we cut out excess cable channels like HBO, Showtime, or whatever or even cut cable altogether. We eliminate all excessive items, even at the grocery store.

What does gov't do? I think we already know that answer!
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
When young people ask me what it takes to get ahead, I tell them to get a job, any job, because there is dignity in all work. When someone has a job, they not only have a sense of purpose, they learn the habits and skills necessary to get a better job.
~Carly Fiorina~
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
When young people ask me what it takes to get ahead, I tell them to get a job, any job, because there is dignity in all work. When someone has a job, they not only have a sense of purpose, they learn the habits and skills necessary to get a better job.
~Carly Fiorina~

Great quote. Did she keep this in mind when she was laying off hundreds of workers and replacing them with "guest workers" for half the pay?

Better do your homework before you quote carly fiorina, the queen of the morons.

TOS.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Great quote. Did she keep this in mind when she was laying off hundreds of workers and replacing them with "guest workers" for half the pay?

Better do your homework before you quote carly fiorina, the queen of the morons.

TOS.
It's the words said, not who said it. I had to include the credit for the quote or get ragged on by someone. The words are true. The words are powerful. The words are the whole point of the post. Attack the source is your M.O. and it's weak willy!!
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
It's the words said, not who said it. I had to include the credit for the quote or get ragged on by someone. The words are true. The words are powerful. The words are the whole point of the post. Attack the source is your M.O. and it's weak willy!!

The words are B.S.

If the right wing cared about jobs or people getting jobs, they wouldnt push so hard to export jobs and cut the pay, pensions and benefits of all working americans.

Those words only work on the weak and old, those unable to join the workforce any longer.

TOS.
 

upschuck

Well-Known Member
The words are B.S.

If the right wing cared about jobs or people getting jobs, they wouldnt push so hard to export jobs and cut the pay, pensions and benefits of all working americans.

Those words only work on the weak and old, those unable to join the workforce any longer.

TOS.
So tell me, what with the quote do you disagree with? And don't infer what isn't there.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
So tell me, what with the quote do you disagree with? And don't infer what isn't there.

Nothing.

The part that I disagree with, is Carly fiorina saying the words. Young people in this country dont need someone to tell them to "get a job", thats just plain stupid and it goes along with common sense.

All young people understand that getting a job is the key to a better future, however, young people today understand that people like the RIGHT WING of this country wnat to keep all bottom end jobs below decent wages and without benefits. These jobs are all that available to them, and they have to compete with "imported" guest workers who will work for those low wages and zero benefits that the RIGHT WING of this country created.

Each year that passes, the right wing continues to PUSH for increase after increase of guest workers from foriegn countries, and this pushes out young americans from the workplace.

This "dog and pony" show by republicans ends up being nothing more than empty words.

Just yesterday, Rick Sanatorium, blabbered on and on about him standing with the american worker, yet, if you look at his voting record over his career, he has voted for every right wing bill that attacked middle class jobs, wages and pensions.

Further, he has voted or co sponsored bills that INCREASE "guest workers" and actually voted YES on a bill that allowed silicon valley corporations like Carly Fiorinas Hewlett Packard, to lay off americans and replace them with lower paid "guest workers" from india and pakistan.

The right wing could care less about the american worker, and if they did, and really wanted them to succeed, they would support increasing the minimum wage to $15.00.

OF course, we know that will never happen, but they will simply continue to say young people are too stupid and lazy to get a job.

They create the labor environment, then they get to complain about it.

Take a look at Rick Sanitoriums voting record ( in part )

(p.s. I doubt you or anyone else on this board understands what an H2B worker is, but simply put, its a foriegner who gets to come here and make below what an american can make at a place of employment.)

"Cosponsoring legislation to increase H-2B workers who are present in the U.S. at any one time in 2005-2006 Sen. Santorum is a cosponsor of S. 352, the Save Our Small and Seasonal Business Act of 2005, to amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to limit the timing of issuance of H-2B visas during a fiscal year. Specifically, S. 352 would split the H-2B visa cap so no more than 33,000 visas are made available for the first six months the fiscal year, and another 33,000 visas would be available in the second half of the year. HOWEVER, S. 352 exempts from the annual cap aliens granted an H-2B visa within three years prior to approval of an H-2B petition, thus potentially TRIPLING the number of H-2B workers in the United States at any one time. Although timing the issuance of H-2B visas is a common-sense approach that would help prevent the situation that occurred in FY 2004 and FY 2005 when the 66,000 annual cap on H-2B (low-skill) nonimmigrant visas was hit within the first quarter of the year, S. 352 would ultimately harm American workers by creating exemptions which potentially could triple the number of H-2B workers in the U.S. at any given time."

"Voted for a foreign worker bill with no anti-fraud measures in 2000. Sen.Santorum voted for S.2045, the Abraham foreign worker bill to nearly triple the number of foreign high-tech workers. On the heels of the release of a GAO report finding no proof of a high-tech worker shortage and evidence of abuse in the H-1B program, Sen. Santorum voted for this foreign worker bill that contained no worker protections or anti-fraud measures. The bill passed the Senate 96-1.

"Voted to allow firms to lay off Americans to make room for foreign workers in 1998 Before the Senate passed the H-1B doubling bill (S.1723), Sen. Santorum had an opportunity to vote for a measure requiring U.S. firms to check a box on a form attesting that they had first sought an American worker for the job. Sen. Santorum voted against that, joining those who said the requirement would give government too much authority over corporations’ right to hire whomever they please from whatever country."

"Voted on Senate floor in favor amendment to increase worker protections in 2006 Sen. Santorum voted in favor of the Cornyn amendment (SA 3965) to S. 2611, the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006 . The Cornyn amendment (submitted for himself and Sen. Grassley) would offer modest protections for American workers from being displaced by a foreign worker by prohibiting H-2C visas for employers unless they attest that they will employ an alien in the offered job position and DHS certifies that there are not sufficient U.S. workers who are able, willing, qualified, and available to fill the position. The Cornyn amendment passed by a vote of 50 to 48"

"Voted against killing amendment to prevent guestworkers from getting greencards in 2006 Sen. Santorum voted against a motion to table the Kyl amdendment (SA 3969) to S. 2611. The Kyl amendment would have removed provisions allowing guestworkers admitted under S. 2611 to adjust status to that of lawful permanent resident on the basis of their status as a guestworker. This would have prevented 200,000 guestworkers a year from gaining greencards, resulting in 2 million less greencards over a decade. The motion to table the Kyl amendment passed by a vote of 58 to 35, effectively killing the amendment."


CARLY FIORINA took advantage of all these bills to lay off AMERICAN WORKERS and replace them with Foriegn guest workers.

For her to make a quote like that, along with Rick Sanitorium saying he is "on the side of the american worker" is laughable at best.

You people who believe you are right wing republicans, dont have the first clue what the track record of republicans is on capitol hill. You want to be like them, bitch, complain but then ignore that you are a part of the problem and not the solution.

TOS.
 
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