Pt sups, and the union....

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by drewed, Feb 10, 2009.

  1. drewed

    drewed Shankman

    So fellow pt sups, we had our sorta informal meeting about the new changes to the NLRB if the new legislation is passed....Im wondering if the rest of you are in favor if being union?

    Personally Im oppsed to it, the good job you do wont be rewarded in merit increase, the slack ass supervisor will get the same raise you do. Nothing we have now will be protected. If we do elect to be union an a contract isnt passed within 60 days we get stuck with what an arbitrator says.


    AND if we ever do become part of the union, it shouldnt be part of the IBT. I have a strong feeling theyd screw us hard (just like the pters) and there will be a lot of antimosity when your brothers and sisters decided not to do as you direct.
     
  2. bad company

    bad company semi-pro

    -A merit system doesn't always benefit the hard working employee. Not sure about Alaska, but full-time sups and business managers rotate all the time in my area. By the time one gets to "know you" and evaluate your performance, they are out the door and in comes a new face. Your merit raise you thought you earned, may not be rewarded.

    -A union will help identify specific jobs and responsibilities. Right now, the job description of a part-time supervisor changes within each operation. Some sups do more, some do less. Not exactly fair is it? Tasks, reponsibilities, and roles within the operation need to be more defined.

    You say "Nothing we have now will be protected." Please explain...

    -I do agree with it not being IBT. Too much of a conflict there, if part-time sups are to realistically maintain their position (title) of authority.

    -As for the IBT screwing part-timers, if the part-timers fail to exercise their right to vote, they get no pity from me. If part-timers were more active in the union and the overall process, they would have a much stronger voice and more pull than the full-timers.

    -I could argue that Management has screwed fellow management AND/OR hourlies, more than you could argue IBT screwing part-timers.
     
  3. drewed

    drewed Shankman

    A merit system doesn't always benefit the hard working employee. Not sure about Alaska, but full-time sups and business managers rotate all the time in my area. By the time one gets to "know you" and evaluate your performance, they are out the door and in comes a new face. Your merit raise you thought you earned, may not be rewarded.
    Very true, most of the sups here dont rotate maybe 2-3 years (if not more) But even if we did every 12 months most of the managers here have the atitude that what I see you put in can outweigh your QPR results.
    -A union will help identify specific jobs and responsibilities. Right now, the job description of a part-time supervisor changes within each operation. Some sups do more, some do less. Not exactly fair is it? Tasks, reponsibilities, and roles within the operation need to be more defined.
    Again true.....But a preload sup, an office sup, a ramp sup, a hr interviewer, a sort sup all have different responsibities and you really cant have a broad job functions for it, also for me it also leads back to the performance thing I base my performance on what I can learn and accomplish I cant do that with specific job functions
    You say "Nothing we have now will be protected." Please explain...
    Well It was just sort to lead, whatever union we would get wouldnt have to go off of our current wage, pension contribution, benefits for an agreement they could say well your going to make 15% less youre going to pay us 4x your hourly wage on top of that AND your going to contribute 10 bucks a month to insurance

    -I do agree with it not being IBT. Too much of a conflict there, if part-time sups are to realistically maintain their position (title) of authority. Exactly, but the teamsters are going to be the ones going after it. I dont know what other union we could fall under ( i know any really just finding one that fit us well)

    -As for the IBT screwing part-timers, if the part-timers fail to exercise their right to vote, they get no pity from me. If part-timers were more active in the union and the overall process, they would have a much stronger voice and more pull than the full-timers. Well the new hires dont have much say in the matter and thats where i was getting at, the 8.50 sucks and no bennies for a year makes it all the much worse

    -I could argue that Management has screwed fellow management AND/O[/quote]
    There both valid arguements, I dont want to discuss it because your point is as valid as mine
     
  4. bad company

    bad company semi-pro

    -The QPR is a scam. As with many things in UPS, if setup and used properly, the QPR could be an effective tool to help assess job performance. But similar to other programs within UPS, the numbers can be manipulated to meet or exceed the goal. Managers do have a little pull to adjust your raise, but considering how tight UPS is going to be with money, I wouldn't expect much. Your business manager might want to help you out, but the division manager on up may say otherwise strictly to save money.

    -I would guess that those directly over an operation would be compensated a little more than support staff, similar to how FT management is paid. There are many smaller centers around the country that have pt sups with one job title and pay code, but get paid the same. For example, I've been preload, twilight, dispatch, PTPCS (OMS), carwash, and midday. Some jobs are easier than others. But should all of these be paid the same?

    -Clearly no one is going to vote on a contract that gives you lower compensation and benefits than you have now. I think it would be realistic to see more position-specific pay (skilled/unskilled), better benefits package (maybe not by much, but atleast a little), guaranteed min. hours, and over-time with out all of the pressure and harrasement from management to either falsify records, or even worse, work for free.

    -I have no idea as to what the IBTs' intentions would be, but I could see pt sups belonging in a "professional union". Check them out on the AFL-CIO website.

    -Respectfully disagree about the new hire part-timers having no say. Because nobody forces them to work at UPS. They know (or should know) what they're getting into.

    As a former pt sup, I guess I have a little bit of a different perspective on this. In a perfect world, management-employee relations would be smooth, open, and effective. There would be no need for protection or greivance procedures. But we all know it's not a perfect world. I think most corporations have this "If you're not cheatin', you ain't tryin'" mentality. They will do anything for the all mighty dollar; Including taking advantage of and abusing the very same people who work for them.

    If I was still a pt sup, I would try to unionize.
     
  5. drewed

    drewed Shankman

    The QPR is a scam. As with many things in UPS, if setup and used properly, the QPR could be an effective tool to help assess job performance. But similar to other programs within UPS, the numbers can be manipulated to meet or exceed the goal. Managers do have a little pull to adjust your raise, but considering how tight UPS is going to be with money, I wouldn't expect much. Your business manager might want to help you out, but the division manager on up may say otherwise strictly to save money. Yea we'll see I picked a wide range of raters and some tough measurments and still came up with a score...its still a couple months away so we'll see

    -I would guess that those directly over an operation would be compensated a little more than support staff, similar to how FT management is paid. There are many smaller centers around the country that have pt sups with one job title and pay code, but get paid the same. For example, I've been preload, twilight, dispatch, PTPCS (OMS), carwash, and midday. Some jobs are easier than others. But should all of these be paid the same? Well thats how I would see it as well, but a lot of sups are lackluster and what we dont need is uncapapable sitting under the umbrella of union protection

    -Clearly no one is going to vote on a contract that gives you lower compensation and benefits than you have now. I think it would be realistic to see more position-specific pay (skilled/unskilled), better benefits package (maybe not by much, but atleast a little), guaranteed min. hours, and over-time with out all of the pressure and harrasement from management to either falsify records, or even worse, work for free. Well I would agree, but with the setup 50% +1 gets us into the union and after 60 days no agreement it goes to an arbitrators decision when who knows what we'll get

    -I have no idea as to what the IBTs' intentions would be, but I could see pt sups belonging in a "professional union". Check them out on the AFL-CIO website.
    well wed have to ask them before the teamster get to far going in this.....
    -Respectfully disagree about the new hire part-timers having no say. Because nobody forces them to work at UPS. They know (or should know) what they're getting into.
    Yea but they dont a lot of them are just happy to be at work and the union is happy to have a revolving door of intiation fees
    As a former pt sup, I guess I have a little bit of a different perspective on this. In a perfect world, management-employee relations would be smooth, open, and effective. There would be no need for protection or greivance procedures. But we all know it's not a perfect world. I think most corporations have this "If you're not cheatin', you ain't tryin'" mentality. They will do anything for the all mighty dollar; Including taking advantage of and abusing the very same people who work for them.

    If I was still a pt sup, I would try to unionize.[/quote]
     
  6. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Drewed you are aware that there are a lot more ptimers at ups than ftimers. If the ptimers would just take the time to vote not to many of the contracts would have ever passed.

    You know my feeling on the ptime wages, and it needs to be addressed in the next contract for sure!

    Drewed will you sign the card if i hand it to you?
     
  7. drewed

    drewed Shankman

    I know, I just dont think theyre as informed as they should be but yes for the most part its all on them.

    Umm if it was you? Id probably shake your hand and pleasantly say no...lol
     
  8. I think it'd pass at my building. I personally haven't had the need for such a thing yet, but I can see the need for it especially the way they're clamping down these days. By that I mean blaming people for things that are by and large out of their control.