So called "right to work"

[BrownArmy]

Nobody should be FORCED to join a union to get a job.

That being said, you would have to be some kind of idiot to choose not to join.

I would also strip every union negotiated benefit, pay, retirement, represenation and healthcare from them for choosing not to join the union.

But this is America, and you should have the right to join or not join.

That would be interesting, if that's how RTW worked, or could work.

But that's not how it works, and in its present form, it's just meant to be a Union-buster.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

That would be interesting, if that's how RTW worked, or could work.

But that's not how it works, and in its present form, it's just meant to be a Union-buster.

If RTW is meant to be a union buster then it is probably the most feeble attempt ever made. The only way a union will be busted in a RTW state is if the employees in each shop decide to do so. And that is how it should be. If a few opt out then they are likely freeloaders. If a bunch opt out then that is a sign that the union is failing on their end. If the majority opt out then the union is obviously not necessary anymore.

I think the real reason many people have a problem with RTW isn't because of the possibility of either or all of those three scenarios. I think it's actually because of the jealousy and frustration from paying dues while others don't. I feel that frustration but not enough to support the insane practice of making joining a union a must as a condition of employment. Plus, the fear of losing members tends to light a fire under some of the locals' asses.

 

[davburke]

If RTW is meant to be a union buster then it is probably the most feeble attempt ever made. The only way a union will be busted in a RTW state is if the employees in each shop decide to do so. And that is how it should be. If a few opt out then they are likely freeloaders. If a bunch opt out then that is a sign that the union is failing on their end. If the majority opt out then the union is obviously not necessary anymore.

I think the real reason many people have a problem with RTW isn't because of the possibility of either or all of those three scenarios. I think it's actually because of the jealousy and frustration from paying dues while others don't. I feel that frustration but not enough to support the insane practice of making joining a union a must as a condition of employment. Plus, the fear of losing members tends to light a fire under some of the locals' asses.

Decrease in membership results in decrease in bargaining strength, resulting in weaker contracts, resulting in a weaker union, resulting in increase in people opting out because they feel the union is useless. It's a chain reaction that is aimed at weakening unions and hopefully eliminating them

 

[km3]

Nobody should be FORCED to join a union to get a job.

They're only being "forced" to join the union if they're trying to get a job in a union shop, which no one is forcing them to do. I see no problem with this; if the bargaining unit and the company agreed to only use union workers for certain positions, then that's the way it should be.

 

[davburke]

All hourlys are union workers. If you don't like it, become a non-union supervisor or leave. If you go to Planet Fitness, join or leave. If you go to Costco for wholesale prices, join or leave.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Decrease in membership results in decrease in bargaining strength, resulting in weaker contracts, resulting in a weaker union, resulting in increase in people opting out because they feel the union is useless. It's a chain reaction that is aimed at weakening unions and hopefully eliminating them

Again..... that's on the employees. It takes more than a few free loaders to weaken a union enough to lose their effectiveness. If a union does lose its power it won't be because of RTW laws. It will be because they aren't needed anymore, and/or are corrupt, and/or member apathy. The latter is possible in both RTW states AND non RTW States. But...... member apathy on that scale is most likely a direct result of the combination of the first two.

All hourlys are union workers. If you don't like it, become a non-union supervisor or leave. If you go to Planet Fitness, join or leave. If you go to Costco for wholesale prices, join or leave.

Those are silly analogies at best.

 

[Jones]

If RTW is meant to be a union buster then it is probably the most feeble attempt ever made. The only way a union will be busted in a RTW state is if the employees in each shop decide to do so. And that is how it should be. If a few opt out then they are likely freeloaders. If a bunch opt out then that is a sign that the union is failing on their end. If the majority opt out then the union is obviously not necessary anymore.

I think the real reason many people have a problem with RTW isn't because of the possibility of either or all of those three scenarios. I think it's actually because of the jealousy and frustration from paying dues while others don't. I feel that frustration but not enough to support the insane practice of making joining a union a must as a condition of employment. Plus, the fear of losing members tends to light a fire under some of the locals' asses.

As a union buster RTW has actually been brutally effective. Here's a graphic showing all the RTW states in dark green(currently 25 out of 50):

Now here's a graphic showing the decline in unionized labor:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...cline-of-american-unions-in-one-animated-map/

Notice the pattern? You can pretty much lay one right on top of the other.

RTW is winning by the way, we might be living in the last days of the unions at least in this country.

 

[realbrown1]

They're only being "forced" to join the union if they're trying to get a job in a union shop, which no one is forcing them to do. I see no problem with this; if the bargaining unit and the company agreed to only use union workers for certain positions, then that's the way it should be.

In America, you shouldn't be FORCED to join a union to get the job you want.

But if I had my way, it wouldn't be much of a desirable job with no union benefits.

 

[realbrown1]

As a union buster RTW has actually been brutally effective. Here's a graphic showing all the RTW states in dark green(currently 25 out of 50):

Now here's a graphic showing the decline in unionized labor:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...cline-of-american-unions-in-one-animated-map/

Notice the pattern? You can pretty much lay one right on top of the other.

RTW is winning by the way, we might be living in the last days of the unions at least in this country.

I think crappy, arogant union leaders is the biggest reason for delining membership.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

As a union buster RTW has actually been brutally effective. Here's a graphic showing all the RTW states in dark green(currently 25 out of 50):

Now here's a graphic showing the decline in unionized labor:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...cline-of-american-unions-in-one-animated-map/

Notice the pattern? You can pretty much lay one right on top of the other.

RTW is winning by the way, we might be living in the last days of the unions at least in this country.

Unions are declining in just about every state. I could clearly see it in the animation. It's quicker in the RTW states but still apparent just about everywhere else.

There are also some things that are ignored (which helps the narrative that RTW is the cause of union decline instead of it just being what allows the inevitable to happen on its own) such as how many of those union members in the non RTW states are in government service unions. Remember.......government unions typically don't represent members that produce anything and/or the people they work for don't have to worry about a couple of pesky little things called profit and productivity.

The fact is that many, not all, unions are failing because they have outlived their usefulness and aren't necessary anymore. UPS is becoming a rare example of a labor environment that still needs a union. RTW just allows the inevitable to happen faster and only in fields where unions aren't needed or wanted.

The percentages in the non RTW states on that map would be closer to RTW states if government unions weren't factored in. As they shouldn't be.

RTW isn't busting unions. Workers are. Yes, it's easier with RTW. But if enough of the employees want to disassociate themselves and their jobs from the unions then that obviously means those unions aren't needed anymore. If the entire country was RTW then eventually the only unions left standing (minus government unions) would be those that are still relevant.

In RTW states when a union employee is fired, retired, quits their replacements have to be convinced that it's in their best interest to join the union. In non RTW states if someone is fired, retired, or quits they are replaced by a fresh new dues paying member. Therefore....that interest is forcefully and artificially replaced (per law) whether the interest is really there or not. If not being in a RTW state is all that's holding a union together then maybe they deserve to fail. I hope ours never does. UPS would be ten times worse than many already think it is now.

 

[MC4YOU2]

If it were possible (and it's currently not) to get a job at UPS as a driver and not pay union dues AND as a result, not receive union bennies, what would that job look like? Hourly rate? Representation?
I don't support RTW at all, but I do agree there's an inherent complacency in some cases without it. I was in a RTW state my whole career and yes you definitely do have to do real actual recruiting to get membership. But, there's a new problem aside from just convincing people it's in their best interest.
It's hard for some, who come from the non union sector, and who can't appreciate that you, me, and others, by paying our dues, helped to create and sustain the compensation level, to see that they need to continue the practice to ensure it for themselves and beyond.
There's just a whole lot more of the "that's great, but it's all about me" crowd involved than ever before.
To me, RTW just enables these green horns to damage their future by giving up their ability to speak with one voice.

 

[HardknocksUPSer]

RTW isn't busting unions. I disagree with RTW and think that you should join a union, as a kid coming up through public school I was taught that unions made America weak and that their not needed. The Public education systems are run by the government folks, the government wants us to believe that unions are not needed so they try to plant this into the brains of innocent children through public education. As I got older and got out into the real world and started working at UPS I began to understand the importance of a union and how valuable they are to American workers and the men and women that are not being devalued by the majority of work place bosses due to their age and inability to work like they used to. A union is in place and designed not only to advance it's members in their career but also to protect the old generation. With unions we make higher wages, have Job security, health insurance, weekends off, paid vacations, and many many more great things. Growing up in the south I never would have believed how believed how beneficial a union could be. Thanks to a union I'm making a higher wage than my parents, have health insurance I didn't have growing up, and have job security that many folks in my area don't have. Bottom line is unions are still relevant, their still needed and they still provide the best working conditions for laboring Americans. Be thankful for Teamsters and continue to support your locals and go to meetings, be a active member and don't worry about the target you may get on your back by standing up for the contract. Chances are if your working as hard as you can already there's no amount of targeting management can do to make your day worse. Recruit new members at every chance and build your local to be strong. In my center 2-3 out of 75 employees (DO NOT) pay dues. The rest of us do pay our dues. Unions are relevant.

 

[FrigidFTSup]

as a kid coming up through public school I was taught that unions made America weak and that their not needed. The Public education systems are run by the government folks, the government wants us to believe that unions are not needed so they try to plant this into the brains of innocent children through public education.

You mean to tell me you had teachers, who are part of the strongest unions in America, teach you that unions are bad?

 

[HardknocksUPSer]

You mean to tell me you had teachers, who are part of the strongest unions in America, teach you that unions are bad?

I know some teachers are apart of unions however I'm unsure if mine were or if all of them are union regardless of state. Kind of funny hearing how bad unions are coming from a teacher due to the fact that my state pays teachers a lower wage than most of the country.

 

[UniteandWin]

Where was the initial urgency for RTW laws anyway. Of all the things in America politician should be worried about, it is RTW. Kinda convenient for big business

Sent using BrownCafe App

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

RTW isn't busting unions. I disagree with RTW and think that you should join a union, as a kid coming up through public school I was taught that unions made America weak and that their not needed. The Public education systems are run by the government folks, the government wants us to believe that unions are not needed so they try to plant this into the brains of innocent children through public education. As I got older and got out into the real world and started working at UPS I began to understand the importance of a union and how valuable they are to American workers and the men and women that are not being devalued by the majority of work place bosses due to their age and inability to work like they used to. A union is in place and designed not only to advance it's members in their career but also to protect the old generation. With unions we make higher wages, have Job security, health insurance, weekends off, paid vacations, and many many more great things. Growing up in the south I never would have believed how believed how beneficial a union could be. Thanks to a union I'm making a higher wage than my parents, have health insurance I didn't have growing up, and have job security that many folks in my area don't have. Bottom line is unions are still relevant, their still needed and they still provide the best working conditions for laboring Americans. Be thankful for Teamsters and continue to support your locals and go to meetings, be a active member and don't worry about the target you may get on your back by standing up for the contract. Chances are if your working as hard as you can already there's no amount of targeting management can do to make your day worse. Recruit new members at every chance and build your local to be strong. In my center 2-3 out of 75 employees (DO NOT) pay dues. The rest of us do pay our dues. Unions are relevant.

Unions are relavent where they are needed. Relevant unions survive in RTW states.

 

[HardknocksUPSer]

Unions are relavent where they are needed. Relevant unions survive in RTW states.

Their very relevant at UPS. We both know that, UPS didn't make their billions by treating everyone fair. I would agree, RTW hasn't busted the teamsters in my area.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Their very relevant at UPS. We both know that, UPS didn't make their billions by treating everyone fair. I would agree, RTW hasn't busted the teamsters in my area.

UPS would go to complete crap and be overcome by FedEx within five years if there was no longer a union.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

You mean to tell me you had teachers, who are part of the strongest unions in America, teach you that unions are bad?

Less than half of teachers in this country are unionized.
Collective bargaining rights were taken away for teachers here years ago.
Teacher pay in my county has been frozen for 6 years. They're working on implementing a merit based raise system, based around one day of kids filling in bubbles. This is the kind of things you get with RTW.

 

[10 point]

You mean to tell me you had teachers, who are part of the strongest unions in America, teach you that unions are bad?

Not all teachers are union members.

 

[10 point]

How many part timers in rtw states bail out of paying dues? Just wondering.
There's very little cohesion with part timers here because they're getting no vacations and healthcare for a year plus their initial hourly pay is nothing to write home about.