Stop thinking in crisis, start thinking in opportunities!

[wisedragonfly]

WDF, I have submitted sales leads. They were sold leads. I recieved my score card. Since then it has been nothing but a constant battle to check on points accumulated. The last statement I rec'd was dated 2/08. Why should I bother. It takes to much of my time to argue with some ............. on the other end to find out anything.

I have no interest what so ever to submit other leads.

I agree with pudg it is a good post but..................



One of my sold leads was Home Depot. In more than 2 yrs I have earned a total of 42 dollars. That just doesn't seem right when our Home Depot ships every single day.

I understand your frustration, dilligaf. One of the biggest faults that we have as a company is getting information to people that need to hear it.

As far as checking your actual ScoreCard balance, you would do that through American Express, who holds the account. I'm not sure if the company changes from district to district or not, but in my own district it's American Express. There should be a phone number on the back of the ScoreCard to call American Express, or vendor. American Express sends statements on your account, so make sure your H/R GEMS files are updated to reflect your currently mailing address, so that American Express can get their mail to you.

When it comes to the status of your sales leads, have you ever visited the employee's web site at upers.com? You would need to register with the site, if you haven't already, but on the site you can check the status of your leads. Although, I'm not sure if the site lists the total points awarded.

If there was a vehicle in place where you could view the status of your own leads, including the lead status as closed or sold and listed the total points earned, you would feel better about submitting leads?

Your Take Charge Committee is the link to making changes in the way sales lead information is communicated in your district. Get involved and make something happen in your district! If you don't know who is on your Take Charge Committee, then ask your Business Manager or your Sales Rep, they should be able to direct you.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Hello to all of my fellow UPSers.
I'm new to the BC site, so please forgive me if I'm not following the proper forum. I figure, I'll learn as I go.

Be easy on me, "Stevetheupsguy"!

Why was I singled out? Are you trying to STUG me?

 

[wisedragonfly]

The sold leads are watched for 13 weeks. After 13 weeks you are given your money. Corp watches what leads are closed sold, especially national accounts like Home Depot. More than likely Home Depots decision to ship with UPS was made out of their corp location. UPS corp feels you had nothing to do with the decision, so they removed the sold lead. Or the lead was put in for additional volume. Which means you get paid based on how many packages they are giving UPS now compared to how many they were giving us in the past.

Also the statements are 2 months behind for whatever reason.

hope this helps..

Hi Hudson. You are correct, the lead tracks volume for 13 weeks. However, payment to the driver is actually a little slower than that.

Corporate only uploads the SLIM system once per month, to transfer the points awarded. There is a process that follows which takes another 4-6 weeks after the Awards Transfer Date, before the funds actually show up in the ScoreCard account. In my region the awards transfer takes place mid-month. If a driver has not been paid 4-6 weeks after the Award Transfer Date, then they should check with their local Take Charge Committee, or the district PDA.

You are right again regarding our National & Major accounts! In most cases, it's not the local driver that found the BIG business, like Home Depot. What the local driver is witnessing is the work done on a corporate level. National and Major accounts can be in negotiations for years before business in won. So Yes, the local drivers lead becomes invalid on many National & Major accounts.

 

[wisedragonfly]

Why was I singled out? Are you trying to STUG me?

No harm, stevetheupsguy. LOL
Let's just say that your post are impressive!

 

[dannyboy]

Well Wise one, you have explained the program quite well.

Problem is your group does not want to listen to any other group.

I have already asked Sales guy a question he would not respond to, heres one for you.

Several years ago, we had the largest law firm in our area sending documents to several county seats by next day air letter. Some of these documents were very heavy, but all were documents.

The problems started with our wonderful revenue enhancement clerks. You know, the vultures that descend on our package cars to see what they can add revenue to. And I understand that UPS feels the need to do that as the average UPS customer is out to rip UPS off.

Problem is that after shipping with UPS for many years, 15-30 letters a day, they started getting add on bills for the letters. Getting charged by weight instead of the letter rate. This went on for almost a month, with several thousands of dollars being added as adjustments to the letter rate.

All I could do was tell them to call the 1-800 number. Their response was to say why should I spend my time on their problem. That next week, they were with FedEx and have been there ever since.

So yes, we made some good money for a short while, but over the long run, it cost us much more.

And that is the issue all across UPS. A real disconnect between your posts wanting all the business, and the front line management that wants volume, but is not interested in doing whatever it takes to keep it, within reason.

Now, we have given you several examples of serious shortcomings that have yet to be corrected. You have chosen to ignore what the drivers, those who you want to turn in sales leads, have told you are problems. But yet you choose not to address symptomatic issues that are costing sold volume?

Its beginning to sound like one of those really bad PCM's given by someone that has their head in their (you fill in the blank) and cant deal with the reality.

d

 

[dilligaf]

The sold leads are watched for 13 weeks. After 13 weeks you are given your money. Corp watches what leads are closed sold, especially national accounts like Home Depot. More than likely Home Depots decision to ship with UPS was made out of their corp location. UPS corp feels you had nothing to do with the decision, so they removed the sold lead. Or the lead was put in for additional volume. Which means you get paid based on how many packages they are giving UPS now compared to how many they were giving us in the past.

Also the statements are 2 months behind for whatever reason.

hope this helps..

And ther in lays the problem that I have with sales leads. And why I don't bother with trying to get anymore. friend..........
UPS and their sales leads programs.

 

[hudson]

Well Wise one, you have explained the program quite well.

Problem is your group does not want to listen to any other group.

I have already asked Sales guy a question he would not respond to, heres one for you.

Several years ago, we had the largest law firm in our area sending documents to several county seats by next day air letter. Some of these documents were very heavy, but all were documents.

The problems started with our wonderful revenue enhancement clerks. You know, the vultures that descend on our package cars to see what they can add revenue to. And I understand that UPS feels the need to do that as the average UPS customer is out to rip UPS off.

Problem is that after shipping with UPS for many years, 15-30 letters a day, they started getting add on bills for the letters. Getting charged by weight instead of the letter rate. This went on for almost a month, with several thousands of dollars being added as adjustments to the letter rate.

All I could do was tell them to call the 1-800 number. Their response was to say why should I spend my time on their problem. That next week, they were with FedEx and have been there ever since.

So yes, we made some good money for a short while, but over the long run, it cost us much more.

And that is the issue all across UPS. A real disconnect between your posts wanting all the business, and the front line management that wants volume, but is not interested in doing whatever it takes to keep it, within reason.

Now, we have given you several examples of serious shortcomings that have yet to be corrected. You have chosen to ignore what the drivers, those who you want to turn in sales leads, have told you are problems. But yet you choose not to address symptomatic issues that are costing sold volume?

Its beginning to sound like one of those really bad PCM's given by someone that has their head in their (you fill in the blank) and cant deal with the reality.

d

FedEx charges by weight as well for any letter over 8 ounces. UPS has no weight limit on letters as long as the contents are documents or electronic media.

What was the law firm shipping, I assume documents bet you never know.

 

[hudson]

And ther in lays the problem that I have with sales leads. And why I don't bother with trying to get anymore. friend..........
UPS and their sales leads programs.

In most cases, it's not the local driver that found the BIG business, like Home Depot. What the local driver is witnessing is the work done on a corporate level. National and Major accounts can be in negotiations for years before business in won

Try and find something smaller...

Unfortunately there are not many large opportunities UPS already doesnt know about.

 

[wisedragonfly]

Well Wise one, you have explained the program quite well.

Problem is your group does not want to listen to any other group.

I have already asked Sales guy a question he would not respond to, heres one for you.

Several years ago, we had the largest law firm in our area sending documents to several county seats by next day air letter. Some of these documents were very heavy, but all were documents.

The problems started with our wonderful revenue enhancement clerks. You know, the vultures that descend on our package cars to see what they can add revenue to. And I understand that UPS feels the need to do that as the average UPS customer is out to rip UPS off.

Problem is that after shipping with UPS for many years, 15-30 letters a day, they started getting add on bills for the letters. Getting charged by weight instead of the letter rate. This went on for almost a month, with several thousands of dollars being added as adjustments to the letter rate.

All I could do was tell them to call the 1-800 number. Their response was to say why should I spend my time on their problem. That next week, they were with FedEx and have been there ever since.

So yes, we made some good money for a short while, but over the long run, it cost us much more.

And that is the issue all across UPS. A real disconnect between your posts wanting all the business, and the front line management that wants volume, but is not interested in doing whatever it takes to keep it, within reason.

Now, we have given you several examples of serious shortcomings that have yet to be corrected. You have chosen to ignore what the drivers, those who you want to turn in sales leads, have told you are problems. But yet you choose not to address symptomatic issues that are costing sold volume?

Its beginning to sound like one of those really bad PCM's given by someone that has their head in their (you fill in the blank) and cant deal with the reality.

d

I hear you, dannyboy! UPS has many service failures that caused lost volume. I could name a few myself!

Just to set the record straight, I am not a management person, at all. In fact, I'm only a grade 7 admin. However, my job duties expose me to the sales lead program, so I am able to answer some concerns that the drivers are having. I am more than willing to take what I learn here to a conference call that I will sit in on with my supervisor, that I attend monthly with my region. I don't know whether I will accomplish anything, probably not, but it worth a try. If there is something that I can get region to sell to corporate that benefits the driver, then why not?

As far as your customer that ships paper. I guess I don't have to tell you how heavy paper can be. I'm not sure who the revenue vultures are but I would imagine it has do to with additional handling charges that are placed on oversized package and the audit clerks. Am I hearing you say that it's ok if a customer does not record their oversize shipments as such?

I do understand completely when you attempt to help a customer resolve a problem, but can't find anyone willing enough to get in the boat with you to figure out a solution. I guess it sort of comes back to that TEAM effort thingy that we lack as a company.

 

[wisedragonfly]

(1) bd 8-9 hour days (that i have seen firsthand), drivers doing 9-12 hours
(2) sales people are in it for sales, drivers are in it for servicing the sales
(3) the sales lead program is hardly profitable or recognizable for those bringing in the leads

Bottom line - this argument never accomplishes anything except makes people in bd seem as unrealistic and well, evil, as operations management. Allocate some time to hustling sales leads, or at least some significant incentive, otherwise you simply cannot hold anyone accountable for lack of motivation or go-getting

Hi Sleeve_Meet-Heart. I don't know of any BD management person in my district that gives less than 10-12 hour days. I get emails from my sales force that are still working from home between 10pm and 1am. The sales force team does not only visit customers to win new business, they make visits on damages, and many other problems. You can't even imagine the paperwork that the sales force has to process. It's a vicious circle!

 

[tourists24]

Hi Sleeve_Meet-Heart. I don't know of any BD management person in my district that gives less than 10-12 hour days. I get emails from my sales force that are still working from home between 10pm and 1am. The sales force team does not only visit customers to win new business, they make visits on damages, and many other problems. You can't even imagine the paperwork that the sales force has to process. It's a vicious circle!

HMMM,,, in my 20 years, Ive never seen a sales rep anywhere near our center late. Ive seen many a driver out past 10pm; havent even made it home by then. I wish you sales reps all the best; as for me, I'll stick to delivering boxes. You get the leads and the volume, I'll deliver it

 

[dannyboy]

I get the feeling I am talking to richard simmons...........Where is whats his name.........ah yes, sexy ups man... but I digress

What part of the above story did you guys not understand.

Customer ships DOCUMENTS to courthouses all over the USA with LEGAL papers in them. And we all know that lawyers are long winded SOB's, so some of these letters are thick and heavy. Hell, some of them even weigh as much as a book. And they ship them out in UPS PROVIDED LETTER ENVELOPES.

Now, we do a weight/piece correction on the LETTER because 1, we are not a UPS employee nor do we care about customers, 2, we get paid minimum wage to do the job, 3, we have either been promised a part time job at UPS if we find a lot of stuff to write up, or we get a little bonus if we done good. You pick.

Now, this non UPS employee writes up these letters as being a revenue misfit. They are heavy, so they put them on the scales and wallah, 6 pounds sent out as a letter. Thats puts some ChaChing in the bank on Friday.

Customer gets bill for 6 grand more than she was expecting. After all, the long winded lawyers need a pencil pusher to keep track of every minute and penny. After a few phone calls, she is put off by the way she has been treated, after all we promised her a flat rate, and now surprise, we charge by the pound.

Now, was that clear enough? Or do I really need to get sarcastic to penetrate your ivory tower, the one right above the rainbow filled world?

The way I see it is that we have sales reps,..... sorry Business Development Specialists that go out there and get the customers signed up. You make certain promises to get the business. And at least for a short time, local management makes a commitment to follow through on that promise. But only for a while, until some faceless guy pushing a pencil in IE figures out that it costs UPS 28 cents extra every day to do it that way. Then the order comes down the line to change the promise. And we lose the customer. Again. And again.

Over my 33 years, seen it too much. Nobody is on the same team. Everybody is looking out for their small segment of the business, regardless of what it does to the other segments.

And the attitude of so many others on this site reflects that frustration at a system where we work our asses off to grow the business, only to watch people that dont even have names or faces make changes that undo a world of effort.

It makes me frusterbated. And yes, that is an official UPS term.

d

 

[dannyboy]

And if you will, let me add one more observation to the mix.

We get the customer signed up, not on price but on services that the BDS sells to the customer. After a while, Opperations then alters and modifies the agreement to suit their delivery and pickup plans for the area to where we can save said 28 cents a day.

The customer switches to another carrier.

How likely is it that we will get a second crack at that customer again? After all, in their eyes, we lied to get their business in the first place the first time.

Add to that the fact that there are only so many businesses that ship packages in the first place, and the pickings become slim.

Yup, you want us to go and getem boys. But when you see a pallet of fedex or even another carrier, there might just be a darn good reason that they are not UPS packages.

So again, not to pick on anyone, but good, you know of a couple of instances where we screwed up the account by not taking care of the customer like we promised. I can tell you of hundreds. And when management was approached, I/we were promptly told that the changes being made were none of our business, that it is what it is. The word came from the ivory tower to screw the customer, and by God that was what they were going to do.

Of course the actual command was not really to screw the customer, but the end result of the command and action did just that. And we lost business.

So take of those richard simmons rose colored sunglasses and get a good picture of what the front lines are dealing with.

d

 

[brownmonster]

Well said in both posts. We will never grow as a company unless IE gives up the reins and lets sales and service take over.

 

[dannyboy]

Brown

There is a place at the UPS table for IE.

The problem is that currently, IE rules supreme. What they say goes. There is no "balanced score card" when IE prints the cards and sets the rules.

Center managers? What a Joke for a title. All they are in reality are center administrators, they really dont have the authority or the autonomy to make any decisions on their own.

Delivery sups? basically just driver trainers, and some body for the center manager and above to have a captive audience when they go into the little fits that make life so wonderful at UPS.

No, what IE says goes, regardless of if it makes sense or not. And with that goes the blessings of the ivory tower bunch. But of course, they only get to read (or want to read) what the "gonna get there one day" bunch gives them to read.

Hence the disconnect from reality.

d

 

[BrownSuit]

Danny -

Letter envelopes are designed for flat bendable paper media. If they contain anything other than flat paper (ie books, CD's, even stacks of paychecks) it is unfortunate, but they will be corrected at the actual weight of the package.

Think about it, an average ream of paper is around 3#'s. If a customer was shipping over 1# of paper that would be several hundred sheets.

The whole point of the letter rate was something that would be bendable to go through our automated sorts. When the letter is no longer bendable, it runs the risk of not making it through the automation.

With the economy being what it is, UPS is taking greater efforts at Revenue Recovery to ensure that we bill customers who take advantage of the system. There have been countless posts here about those who don't put the correct weight or shipping items that are obviously too large for our system.

This year, we also started taking steps to address zone corrections, customers who say they ship from Point A to C - when in reality they are shipping from B to C, a longer distance.

What should have happened is that this should have been explained to the customer when they signed up. Chances are they sold the customer by stating that we don't charge for weight on envelopes where FedEx does. This is partly true, but they likely failed to inform the customer that the envelope still has to close under it's own power and be able to be bendable.

If it was deemed that we could have moved their envelopes seamlessly through our automation even with their size, steps should have been taken to prevent the adjustments in the future.

We all fail from time to time resulting in customer's leaving. BD fails to offer pricing, Center Manager decides to change the pickup time to cut miles, driver is rude to the customer, or fails to pickup because of problems with DIAD, Customer Service is unresponsive, rude, or clueless, Billing can't explain or help with adjustments, collections calls the customer and demands money before cutting off their service, IE Re-loops the route and the customer doesn't get their deliveries in time, we lose a package that they needed for a big project, or we blew apart a package that was made of solid rock.

All of these are scenarios of what could happen. It's important not to blame any particular division when a customer diverts. The problem should be brought to the table, addressed so that it doesn't happen in the future, every step should be made to retain the customer and move on if they don't come back, with occasional follow-up to win back their business.

I'm going to step down from my soapbox now . . . But bottom line, let him who is without guilt throw the first stone.

 

[wrecker]

Just found the rule posted on the website for express envelopes...

Strong envelope for documents up to legal size. No weight restrictions.

Can I post the link here??

Don't want to get in trouble.. It's no secret who I am.

 

[whiskey]

Hold on to your hat.

 

[wrecker]

I figure there is nothing wrong with it.

http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/resources/ship/packaging/supplies/envelopes.html

I see nothing about stuffing too many documents in the letter.

 

[UPSNewbie]

Just found the rule posted on the website for express envelopes...

Strong envelope for documents up to legal size. No weight restrictions.

Can I post the link here??

Don't want to get in trouble.. It's no secret who I am.

You're fine, since it's open to the public.