Telematics and discipline.

[Mugarolla]

By itself telematics or GPS can't be used for termination. Despite what UPS tries to claim, it is not 100% infallible. It can be used to spot problems then target someone. Or pressure and harass someone into admitting guilt. If questioned, always say the GPS must be wrong. Many times it might be. I had issues with driver follow ups a couple of times where GPS tried to say I misdelivered packages to the wrong house. Their GPS data was clearly wrong because it showed the deliveries on streets I never deliver. Only a minor annoyance for me and hardly anything to get terminated about but the same principles still apply. And don't do stupid like falsifying records just to claim you made service. Even if GPS can't be used by itself UPS will then observe you and you would then be toast.

Problem is that it is stated in the contract that an employee can be terminated for dishonesty based on GPS, etc. UPS will terminate. Will it stick? Probably not because telematics is not infallible. But this will not stop UPS from discharging.

You get your job back at the panel with no back pay. 2, 3, 4 weeks lost pay. Just take the warning letter for the late NDA. Hell, they may not even issue a warning letter.

 

[Mugarolla]

Do I agree with your assessment of his intentions? Yes.

Is uncorroborated Telematics data sufficient proof of that intent to uphold a termination at panel? No.

I do believe that uncorroborated telematics is proof that the driver tried to defraud the company by being dishonest by scanning package when he was no where near the stop.

Will it stick. Probably not if the driver doesn't admit to doing it because, as stated in the last post, telematics is not infallible. Should somebody lose their job based on electronics that could be wrong?

No, but I can almost guarantee there will be no back pay. In essence, it will be a 3 or 4 week unpaid suspension.

 

[rpoz11]

Depending on the quality of the paper you could either wipe your ass with that warning letter or else use it to line a birdcage. It might also come in handy to start a fire or wrap fish with. It certainly isn't good for anything else; the contract is very clear that Telematics cant be used for discipline. Your supervisor was probably given a quota of warning letters to issue so he is just spewing them out to look like he is doing something important.

Agree with the above statement.
Add : Maybe the center manager is under some heat for bad numbers, too many injury claims, accidents.
Stuff like that gets your center manager a lot of attention from region management.

It's possible that center manager needs to show he is doing something about by issuing warning letters.

 

[soberups]

I do believe that uncorroborated telematics is proof that the driver tried to defraud the company by being dishonest by scanning package when he was no where near the stop.

Will it stick. Probably not if the driver doesn't admit to doing it because, as stated in the last post, telematics is not infallible. Should somebody lose their job based on electronics that could be wrong?

No, but I can almost guarantee there will be no back pay. In essence, it will be a 3 or 4 week unpaid suspension.

Not in the Western Conference. Since the dishonesty is not provable, the driver would continue working until the case is resolved.

 

[10 point]

The drivers intent was to avoid a late air and subsequent talk with by sheeting the air before the commit and then driving to the stop, clearly defrauding the customer.

"Customer". Correct.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Sounds like a driver,who did the samething with an early A.M.

Ring a bell??

 

[OLDMAN3]

What management will do is ask questions that they already know the answer to, in the hope that they can catch the driver in a lie. Or they will keep asking the same question over and over, in the hope that the driver will get scared and change his story. Once that happens, they nail him for the lie and the Telematics information becomes a moot point.

Exactly,
Anyone who has been through this knows their tactics. They will ask a question from 5 different angles trying to trap you. They will rapid fire question you. They will ask a question with a false premise to see if they can trap you.

I wrote up a Next day air as NSN at 1029 A.M.in an area I was unfamiliar with. I had searched for it and finally had to write it up before 10:30. Then later I saw the name of the company on a building that I was going by at 1033 A.M. I realized that the add on the label is actually correct, but the building is just not were you would expect it to be, given the address. So I delivered it ASAP at 1035 A.M. Well it not show up as late, because I already stop completed it as NSN at 1029 A.M. Management sees the write up at NSN at 10:29 and a stop complete at 10:35. Instead of just asking me about it, they had a series of questions rehearsed to try to trap me. AFTER I explained what happened and they knew what really happened, the next day they questioned me like this...

Management: You delivered it to the correct address right?
Driver: Yes
Management: The same address as on the label right?
Driver: Yes
Management: You delivered it at 10:34, right?
Driver: Yes
Management: Since you knew you were at the right address when you delivered it, You must have been trying to avoid a late NDA when you wrote it up as NSN a block away at 10:29...But you must have known it was a good address since you delivered it etc. etc. etc.

And asking me 5 more times in different ways, rapid fire, to try to make it look like I was dishonest.
Always have a steward present. Always listen carefully to what they are asking. Have them repeat the question if necessary, and correct their intentional misleading presumptions before giving an answer.

 

[TurboSnail]

I have a few seatbelt and/or bulkhead door violations every day. When questioned its simple... I always wear my seatbelt and the door wasn't opened. They are Telematic errors.


Sent using BrownCafe App

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Morion, any time a NDA is sheeted with an exception and then delivered within 30 minutes, it will show up on a report.

I personally find your story hard to believe.

 

[10 point]

Maybe could have voided the NSN first and let it show up late?

 

[OLDMAN3]

Morion, any time a NDA is sheeted with an exception and then delivered within 30 minutes, it will show up on a report.

I personally find your story hard to believe.

This happened 4+ years ago. It may very well show up on a report, I have no idea. At that time it did not prompt me as late when I stop completed the 2nd time at 10:35, perhaps the software has changed. My story is true. I had no idea at the time that it would not show up as late on the 2nd stop complete.

The point is, to be aware of management's tactics when badgering you and trying to trap you. In 30 plus years I have seen the same tactics several times.

 

[oldngray]

Always have a union steward with you when management is trying to badger and gang up on you.

 

[OLDMAN3]

Maybe could have voided the NSN first and let it show up late?

As long as you hit dup stop there is no reason to void a stop you stop complete twice. As long as you are doing nothing wrong it is better to not void since voiding would bring up a whole slew of different questions from management...Why did you spend so much time at that location when you did not do a stop there etc etc

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

The second scan will not show up as late because you had already scanned that package before the commit time.

I have to side with mgt on this one-----something about your story just does not add up.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Always have a union steward with you when management is trying to badger and gang up on you.

Don't try to beat the system and you won't have to worry about being badgered.

 

[oldngray]

There are times you make a legitimate attempt before 10:30 and then the customer flags you down as you are leaving. If you voided the first attempt the second time would show up late so that will show up on reports but is still legit.

 

[oldngray]

Don't try to beat the system and you won't have to worry about being badgered.

There will always be times management will badger for no cause if its the flavor of the day or something is on one of their reports but was just part of you doing the job.

 

[OLDMAN3]

Always have a union steward with you when management is trying to badger and gang up on you.

Yep,
And the latest tactic is for those who request a steward... They will talk to you about something unrelated... So you don't ask for a steward, start having a conversation with them, then casually ask you about the thing you can be disciplined for. Kind of like the old Colombo detective show were he says "just one more thing" and asks the real question he was setting up for all along.

 

[OLDMAN3]

The second scan will not show up as late because you had already scanned that package before the commit time.

I have to side with mgt on this one-----something about your story just does not add up.

OK, what does not add up?
mgt did not charge me with anything because I was completely truthful with them, and I was in no way trying to beat the system. I just did not appreciate being badgered and their tactics to try to trip me up, after they already knew the truth. This happens all the time outside the BOG.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Unless you were a cover driver at the time I would think you would have known where that delivery stop was.