The Concept of Constructive Dissatisfaction
- Thread starter MrFedEx
- Start date
satellitedriver
Moderator
After reading your post, a thought occurred to me.
A simple changing of the word "petty" to "efficient", in your post, changes the entire premise of your argument. (try it)
You seem to have a bias against Taylorism, so I thought I would cut and paste this for you to ponder.
"Taylor did not call his original paper "Scientific management"
He sort of defines "Scientific Management" by saying what it is
not -
It is not "Rule of Thumb" when you consider that piece work based on
arbitrary quotas ( and heavily biased to the employer) was normal
practice. The use of work study/measurement to determine a fair quota
was a step forward for both management and the workers."
I am not a manager, but I am familiar with the terminology you use and the way you chose to use it.
Coldworld
60 months and counting
But the company can have a sup waste 3 hours following around a driver who has done nothing wrong...give me a break. A couple years ago they had sales reps out doing observations on drivers. One followed me into a strip mall watched me do 3 or 4 stops then approached me. He introduced himself to me and told me what he was doing. Actually by what he said and his tone of voice I pretty much got the impression he was embarassed for being out there like he was in the FBI or something. He told me good job on grabbing the handrail, etc. I then asked him, how volume development was going. He said that the reps were really busy and there were a few large accounts they were close to picking up in the local area. I told him have a good day and he left. Ok, now I really dont need to tell you that him being out for who knows how long was an absolute waist of company money and time. Business for the business development side of the company is very busy but they are told to go out and follow drivers. This is the exact kind of stuff that makes your post absolutely null and void. How is this good for employee relations, how is this good for ups' bottom dollar, and the most important how is this good for potential customers who would like to have time with a rep, but Im sorry they're a little busy now. How absolutely pathetic is this, I wish it wasnt true, but it happen. Lets add up all the hours that these kinds of things happen on a daily basis and it adds up to millions of dollars, and dont try to spin it down the road of being salaried employees...it was a waste of time and money. I really dont need to tell you that on some items, ups wastes money hand over foot and trys to justifify it by sugarcoating things then makes it up by cutting out things that are absolutely necessary for the daily survival of this company.
I'll have to help it get there.
I thought someone mentioned the one piece of toilet paper method, now that would surely cut down on time even more.
While all of the methods are good, only a robot could complete a day perfectly, never fumbling for a key, is the biggest one. But after dropping them in a sewer grate, or in the snow, sometimes I cant follow that one.
I thought someone mentioned the one piece of toilet paper method, now that would surely cut down on time even more.
While all of the methods are good, only a robot could complete a day perfectly, never fumbling for a key, is the biggest one. But after dropping them in a sewer grate, or in the snow, sometimes I cant follow that one.
Wow! Haven't been on this thread for a day or two and I can't believe what is going on.
MrFedEx,
Just why, in light of all that has happened would you now find it appropriate to put down UPS methods and managers??
I think you need to re-think the direction you're headed.
Tony
Who was Frederick Taylor?
click
What is Taylorism?
click
Key Quote:
"It is only through enforced standardization of methods, enforced adaption of the best implements and working conditions, and enforced cooperation that this faster work can be assured. And the duty of enforcing the adaption of standards and enforcing this cooperation rests with management alone."
Another Quote:
Workers were supposed to be incapable of understanding what they were doing. According to Taylor this was true even for rather simple tasks. "'I can say, without the slightest hesitation,' Taylor told a congressional committee, 'that the science of handling pig-iron is so great that the man who is ... physically able to handle pig-iron and is sufficiently phlegmatic and stupid to choose this for his occupation is rarely able to comprehend the science of handling pig-iron."
Substitute "delivering packages" for "handling pig-iron" and you'll get the idea.......
The introduction of his system was often resented by workers and provoked numerous strikes.
click
What is Taylorism?
click
Key Quote:
"It is only through enforced standardization of methods, enforced adaption of the best implements and working conditions, and enforced cooperation that this faster work can be assured. And the duty of enforcing the adaption of standards and enforcing this cooperation rests with management alone."
Another Quote:
Workers were supposed to be incapable of understanding what they were doing. According to Taylor this was true even for rather simple tasks. "'I can say, without the slightest hesitation,' Taylor told a congressional committee, 'that the science of handling pig-iron is so great that the man who is ... physically able to handle pig-iron and is sufficiently phlegmatic and stupid to choose this for his occupation is rarely able to comprehend the science of handling pig-iron."
Substitute "delivering packages" for "handling pig-iron" and you'll get the idea.......
The introduction of his system was often resented by workers and provoked numerous strikes.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Tony Express...you're barking up the wrong tree. If you have read my previous posts, I am pointing-out that while methods and procedures are important at both UPS and FedEx, it is often anti-productive to take them to the level to which they are taken by some managers. It is not an "attack" against UPS, and I don't really know how you reached that conclusion. My bathroom "example" of Taylorism run rampant is meant to be ridiculous, but sometimes that seems where management is headed. I've been following the thread about the UPS manager who is headed for Tampa, and on one level it's very funny. On another, he's an illustration of someone who pushes the envelope a bit too far. We've got a bunch of managers just like him, and many came from Brown.
If you think that every driver out there follows methods and procedures exactly, you're just plain wrong. In my opinion, Tayloristic management techniques don't work nearly as well as UPS or FedEx think they do. And since we basically shamelessly copied your methods, our management essentially follows the UPS playbook. Managers can try and cram it down driver's throats, but the reality is that almost all UPS and FedEx drivers I know only operate "by the book" on a checkride. If one were to follow policy and methods to the letter, you'd never finish your route.
Taylor's initial studies were of a laborer shoveling coal. By changing the workers movements so they were more efficient, his productivity was greatly improved. However, nobody bothered to consult the worker to see how he was affected....only productivity mattered. Although Taylorism "works", it is also de-humanizing and treats workers as though they are machines instead of people. When taken to ridiculous levels, which can and does happen at both UPS and FedEx, it can be both anti-productive and anti-worker.
If you think that every driver out there follows methods and procedures exactly, you're just plain wrong. In my opinion, Tayloristic management techniques don't work nearly as well as UPS or FedEx think they do. And since we basically shamelessly copied your methods, our management essentially follows the UPS playbook. Managers can try and cram it down driver's throats, but the reality is that almost all UPS and FedEx drivers I know only operate "by the book" on a checkride. If one were to follow policy and methods to the letter, you'd never finish your route.
Taylor's initial studies were of a laborer shoveling coal. By changing the workers movements so they were more efficient, his productivity was greatly improved. However, nobody bothered to consult the worker to see how he was affected....only productivity mattered. Although Taylorism "works", it is also de-humanizing and treats workers as though they are machines instead of people. When taken to ridiculous levels, which can and does happen at both UPS and FedEx, it can be both anti-productive and anti-worker.
UPS Lifer
Well-Known Member
When it came to the "key method" example that I used ...it was an example to show how much time could be wasted.... ONLY you can control that time. Hopefully, we never lose 100K in hours because of fumbling with keys!!!
Your other example is unfair unless you have 1st hand knowledge of the reason those AEs were sent out to follow drivers.If that in fact is what they were sent out to do???) I am not disagreeing with what you said but the perception and reality may not be the same. You know as well as I know the division or district manager (who sent them out there) knows the same thing! What I am saying is not to jump to conclusions or make your example try to fit a scenario without all the facts. This was probably some sort of training exercise to prove something that was brought up during a meeting or a call....Who knows!!!!
This example I will relate is first hand knowledge. I will keep it short. Our district mgr felt the OR teams were not holding the drivers accountable OR dispatching properly. He made a blanket call for all centers to not have any driver work over 10 hours PERIOD. Mgmt would be disciplined. The drivers were to be brought in with whatever was on the car that hadn't been delivered. Conference calls were held every day to discuss the results and how they were going to improve the dispatch.
Now as a driver - all you would really see was that there were thousands of service failures sitting in the building and how could UPS allow that to happen??? ANOTHER BAD MANAGEMENT DECISION!!! A supervisor might even tell you that the district manager was trying to punish them for allowing the drivers to work too many hours!
What would you think?
In fact what really happened was the district manager was forced to micro manage the whole district to impact the paid day and the driver dispatch. There was too much talk and no action.
By forcing the unthinkable - he could see exactly which centers were the worst at dispatching and could get it fixed very quickly. Their dirty laundry was being aired everyday.
Gains were made within 2 weeks and within 2 months the service levels improved dramatically and the paid day for the whole district dropped by 1/2 hour. Everybody won including the customer and the driver!
The management teams had to really work hard to get it fixed. They could not put band-aids on it and hide it. So don't jump to conclusions on why management makes decisions.
Communication is one of our (you and me) biggest challenges.
There are way too many folks jumping to conclusions on both sides. Managers who jump to conclusion about drivers and vice-versa...
The worst thing that drivers and management do is hold those things inside and don't get it out in the open. Also - continue to hold your management team accountable. They need to be on their toes everyday just like you.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Who was Frederick Taylor?
click
What is Taylorism?
click
Key Quote:
"It is only through enforced standardization of methods, enforced adaption of the best implements and working conditions, and enforced cooperation that this faster work can be assured. And the duty of enforcing the adaption of standards and enforcing this cooperation rests with management alone."
Another Quote:
Taylor tWorkers were supposed to be incapable of understanding what they were doing. According to his was true even for rather simple tasks. "'I can say, without the slightest hesitation,' Taylor told a congressional committee, 'that the science of handling pig-iron is so great that the man who is ... physically able to handle pig-iron and is sufficiently phlegmatic and stupid to choose this for his occupation is rarely able to comprehend the science of handling pig-iron."
Substitute "delivering packages" for "handling pig-iron" and you'll get the idea.......
The introduction of his system was often resented by workers and provoked numerous strikes.
A perfect quotation that indicates Taylor's disdain for "stupid" workers.
Your signature of "Work Harder, Not smarter" pretty much explains why you believe what you do. At UPS we choose to work smarter, not harder.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion it's the antagonistic tone and flames that we can do without.
Thanks in advance for understanding,
Tony
tieguy
Banned
Taylorism is a great subject to debate. Your bathroom situation is a wonderfull example of taylorism taken to extremes.
There are 340 methods outlined by UPS for delivery. If you were to do a study on all ups managers you would find that they do not necessarily agree with all 340 methods and enforce or strongly believe in most with a variance. Their individual beliefs or level of tolerance will dictate where they stand on them. Those who enforce no methods will be your poorest managers.
When you break it down to specific methods that you do not agree with then you can actually come up with valid reasons for many or most of them. Your bathroom example also illustrated that you could even find a more efficent way to perform this task.
The key situation seems trivial to you but I would imagine that any driver who has ever locked their keys in the back of their car or dropped their keys in a storm drain will tell you they see the wisdom behind that method.
Methodology not only is the most productive but I've found you don't work as hard when you use them. Anyone who has ever seen the ups unload methods video sees an unloader that does not look like he is working very hard. Yet when you do a flow count on the guy he is easily unloading at 1200 plus an hour.
So great debate but in the end there is a better way to do the job and a reason why some people seem to move smoothly and effortlessly while others seem to fumble and waste time.
satellitedriver
Moderator
MrFedEx Although Taylorism "works" said:
JustTired
free at last.......
In my opinion, methods are a good starting point. After being trained in the methods, an individual might find that a variance from the method might be more efficient or comfortable in their particular case. This could be a case of being left-handed instead of right-handed. It could be a case of feeling like you have some control of an otherwise mundane job. Whether all of these variances are as efficient might be a moot point. After all, there is something to be said for a driver who is content with their job. If a variance in methods makes them feel better about the job they're performing, then their overall performance might reflect that.
Methods as they pertain to safety are probably the most important in my opinion. These methods are probably followed more closely by most drivers than the others. Heck, I use a lot of them in my personal vehicle. It just makes good sense.
Anyway.....these are just my thoughts on the methods. Since we are all individuals, I'm sure others mileage will vary.
Methods as they pertain to safety are probably the most important in my opinion. These methods are probably followed more closely by most drivers than the others. Heck, I use a lot of them in my personal vehicle. It just makes good sense.
Anyway.....these are just my thoughts on the methods. Since we are all individuals, I'm sure others mileage will vary.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Methods have their place, and I agree with TieGuy that a good manager will carefully choose which of the 340 methods they will emphasize strongly. The last post mentioned variance, and I think that an excellent manager will tolerate some degree of variance from the exact definition of the method. A marginal manager will enforce everything to the letter, and drive his people insane as a result. The Tampa guy who everyone seems to hate is a great example of this.
The 2 best managers I ever had at FedEx fell into the first category, and were willing to let each driver have a wider measure of discretion over how they did their job. One now runs the entire Express division, and the other is a regional VP. Both of these individuals utilized Tayloristic FedEx methodology but were savvy enough to modify it from it's purest form.
Taylorism does work, but only to the degree that it is moderated by good managerial judgement. It is when it is taken to the extreme (as Taylor believed it should be) that it is anti-productive.
The 2 best managers I ever had at FedEx fell into the first category, and were willing to let each driver have a wider measure of discretion over how they did their job. One now runs the entire Express division, and the other is a regional VP. Both of these individuals utilized Tayloristic FedEx methodology but were savvy enough to modify it from it's purest form.
Taylorism does work, but only to the degree that it is moderated by good managerial judgement. It is when it is taken to the extreme (as Taylor believed it should be) that it is anti-productive.
