UAW

[kingOFchester]

On a serious note, I do believe that there is enough to blame to go around...including the UAW. Part, and I say PART of the problem was the job banks program (as well as the CEO's "flying high" ). In a nut shell, laid off members received full salary and benefits during periods of unemployment. Thankfuly that concession has already been given.

Now, as far as UPS needing a bailout, could happen, but not as likely. UPS can downsize (layoffs) as the volume drops. Now, Imagine if we couldn't be laid off and the volume dropped 30,40, 50%! Basicly we showed up and got paid to play cards in the hub. How could UPS or any company stay profitable? Again, that certainly isnt the entire problem. But certainly added a lot to their sitation. take 12,000 employees that were not working, costing...lets say even 60.00 an hour......thats arouns 28 million a week that the company could of been saving for a long long long long time!!

 

[moreluck]

Where is Michael Moore? He has all the answers!!
GM
Gun violence
911
Iraq
Health care
Portion Control

 

[But Benefits Are Great!]

On a serious note, I do believe that there is enough to blame to go around...including the UAW. Part, and I say PART of the problem was the job banks program (as well as the CEO's "flying high" ). In a nut shell, laid off members received full salary and benefits during periods of unemployment. Thankfuly that concession has already been given.

Now, as far as UPS needing a bailout, could happen, but not as likely. UPS can downsize (layoffs) as the volume drops. Now, Imagine if we couldn't be laid off and the volume dropped 30,40, 50%! Basicly we showed up and got paid to play cards in the hub. How could UPS or any company stay profitable? Again, that certainly isnt the entire problem. But certainly added a lot to their sitation. take 12,000 employees that were not working, costing...lets say even 60.00 an hour......thats arouns 28 million a week that the company could of been saving for a long long long long time!!

Nah, TEAMSTERS would offer "Deep, Meaningful" concessions, like the UAW; they would cut the starting wages for new unloaders to $5/hour, make them wait three years for benefits, and charge more for the water in the vending machines. It hurts, but we all have to do our part.

 

[Chnandler Bong]

I like how all of this seems to be caused by the fact the Big 3 employ a unionized workforce. Could it possibly be bacause of the ineptness of the management at the Big 3?

Did the Union members have any say in the product line choices made by management? Or product design? The foreign companies chose to make fuel efficiency, safety, and reliability higher priorities than the Big 3. All they wanted to concentrate on was bigger, more powerful (gas guzzlers) because they offered greater markups and profitability. And long lasting, reliable vehicles don't need to be replaced as often. Why would they want that?

The absence of a Unionized workforce would have only enabled Big 3 management to award themselves with even more absurd bonuses than they already receive. And they still would have been in this position because they chose to make inferior products that aren't in demand the way they anticipated.

I am fed up with management at all companies acting like they deserve to make tens of millions of dollars and complain about employees making 75-80 grand a year. The wage gaps between those at the top and those actually doing the work is growing out of control. This is precisely why we need Unions to stay strong and viable. Just my 2 cents.

 

[kingOFchester]

Nah, TEAMSTERS would offer "Deep, Meaningful" concessions, like the UAW; they would cut the starting wages for new unloaders to $5/hour, make them wait three years for benefits, and charge more for the water in the vending machines. It hurts, but we all have to do our part.

Vending machines......didn't someone file for that?

 

[kingOFchester]

.........ineptness of the management .................... The absence of a Unionized workforce would have only enabled Big 3 management to award themselves with even more absurd bonuses than they already receive............ The wage gaps between those at the top and those actually doing the work is growing out of control..

I agree with the above!!

 

[upsdude]

The Republicans to Americans....****** you...Almost a trillion dollars is spent bailing out Wall Street, but $14 billion to help American workers and save an entire industry and its related businesses is meaningless to Senate Republicans.
Uaw has responded this morning with a dramatic press conference, and has layed the facts on the table.......Your opinion states your refusal for workers to have a voice in the auto industry. Your lack of knowledge of concessions already conceded is obvious. The UAW is on third base with concessions while management has not even been ask to the ball park. Republican Senators are obsessed and are bent on busting the UAW and organized labor at any and all sacrifies. Transparentcy is surfacing in exposing these Rupblican Senators as anti-union and anti-Detriot piss-ants. Who cares, lets just throw more logs on the fire affecting millions of more job losses. FYI...Toyota workers are compensated and have as good a pay package, if not more, than UAW workers.
Can someone get the figures for how much tax payer money has gone to foreign car companies in Republican run states to entice them to build plants there - and how much do they get in tax breaks - I’m sure it comes to 10 times what the Big 3 are looking for.
Ironically, nearly all of foreign auto makers are in red states. These same states are anti-union as well. Where are all these flag waving Ford, Chevy all-american republicans now ? Probably want to move this to current events

You might want to read this.................

http://www.uaw.org/

 

[toonertoo]

28$ is what they get, add their benefits they get 55, add the 16 to 20 dollar per hour per employee, which is for MANAGEMENT salary, they get 73.
We have a large plant here called Lordstown. If its gone this area will be even more poverty stricken if that is possible.
Delphi Packard workers were cut from 20ish to 14 15$. Think about it, people call them unskilled, and dont deserve it. We dont know we have never done their job. People lash out and say they make too much. How many jealous people have said that to us? I know people who worked 7 days, 12 hrs. Tell me that isnt hard? Well yes they should have hired more, to alleviate the overtime? Ever hear of that anywhere else?
They make a good product, they made what the market would bear, they have a high selling product until this finanacial collapse started.
What do you do with retirees who follwed all the rules, worked 30/35 yrs, and told they would have retirement, do you now just tell them it sucks to be them. Many are too old, and broke down to find other jobs. Their 401ks are trash.
I think the Republicans were wrong to vote no. I hope Bush bails them, after all it is a loan, not a gimmee. I hope after he had time to evaluate he makes the right choice.
I also heard AIG could possibly be who provides Senate and congress pensions.
The management needs to make concessions, as the workers will be asked to. And Congress needs to take a pay cut also, and see how it feels. Because from what I have seen they do nothing to create anything but Havoc. Vote them all out. Start over with new fresh people. The 30 yr govt employees need to have their pensions trimmed big time, since their company, the US is broke.

 

[brett636]

There is plenty of blame to go around. I personally did not support this bailout anymore than I supported the wall street bailout. These companies were mismanaged into the hole they are in, and now its time to start diggin themselves out or sleep in the bed they made. The Jobs bank program is really a waste, but so was building lackluster cars while relying heavily on trucks and SUV's to keep your profits up. GM and Chrylser are in the worst situation as of right now, Ford says they can make it through next year. Maybe the big 3 should downsize to the big 2, but either way I cannot imagine the loss all those workers families will have to deal with when one of those large, overweight car companies finally kicks the bucket.

I don't know about the rest of you, but while I wasn't fully enthralled with the vehicle lineup of the big 3 I did have respect for them. With all this bailout talk and them shaking the tin cup all over Washington D.C. its really reduced that respect.

 

[cachsux]

The thing is a collapse of the domestic industry is just as bad for the foreign automakers (Japanese). They share the same suppliers so it would be a domino effect. Toyota and Honda have actually sent reps to Washington to lobby for the Big 3.

 

[diesel96]

"
diesel96 quote...The Republicans to Americans....****** you...Almost a trillion dollars is spent bailing out Wall Street, but $14 billion to help American workers and save an entire industry and its related businesses is meaningless to Senate Republicans...."


No disrespect intended, please, but go back to reading the comics, the ones with big pictures.

No disrespect intended here neither screw + ball but why do I get the impression of you with a straight jacket and Hannibal mask punching a keyboard with a pencil between your teeth.
BTW....If you ever read the comics with the big pictures, you may have noticed the small print revealing the story behind the illustration the artist is trying to convey. The same applies to issue's such as the Big 3/UAW dilemma. Come back to me when you read the small print, instead of scanning visuals, soundbytes and relying on party loyalty.

You are comparing apples and hand grenades -

One, money spent on wall street was to help keep the United States' financial process from completely collapsing, affecting every person on the planet (I disagree that it should have been done, by the way).

What an oxymoron statement...lol

Apples to hand granades ? Your exactly right..Were talking 14 billion dollar LOAN to sustain millions of American middle class jobs preventing a domino effect propelling us deeper into a potential carbon copy of a 20th century great depression era, compared to 750 billion dollars to sustain and insure that America's wealthiest citizens, banks, loaning, and credit institutions stay afloat from horrendous business descions and greed.
Were talking 1.5-2% LOAN (14 billion) compared to the 750 billion dollars doled out for the CORPERATE WELFARE RECIEPIENTS, not obligated to pay back....Golden parachutes, hell, I'll give them a golden shower for free..

Whereas the bailout of the auto industry will never, ever, EVER have a chance of succeeding as long as there is a union involved. The unions got them in the mess they are in, no WAY a bailout will happen with a union still present. You'll never hear a politician SAY that, but thems the facts.

Unions got them in this mess? So the UAW oversees the engineering, design, marketing and management of the products they build. So with your brillant assesment, the UAW must be asking Americans to buy imports and foreign brand vehicles instead of American mfg's.
If what you say in the above statement is truth to power, can you explain why other ventures have thrived with UAW and organized labor are involved such as;
HarleyDavidson.... JohnDeere/Caterpillar .... Frieghtliner/Mack/Navistar/Int'l/Peterbuilt/Volvo ....Commercial and Defense contracters including machinists and metalworkers
Transnational joint Ventures....including Toyota and Mitsubishi.

Lets remind ourselves, most automakers in the world are hurting in this worldwide economic stumbling block, but advantage for foriegn automakers is Gov't subsidaries and healthcare, which puts us behind the eight ball from the get go. People are having a tough time obtaining loans to buy cars now-a-days, and who wants to buy a new car from a company who may go bankrupt?

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

People are crying about the the request for the UAW to make concessions but don't realize that concessions are going to be made across the board at each of the companies. That means that management, engineers, quality control, finance, etc., are all going to take a hit. So, why not the workers on the assembly lines as well? If they want to save their companies, which means save their jobs, then they should be willing to make these concessions.

 

[barnyard]

The UAW pointed out during discussions that they had concessions in their last contracts. They also pointed out that any concessions would have to be voted on and approved by membership, a process that could not be completed by March 1, 2009, which is when Republicans wanted the concessions in place by.

This is a clear case of a Republican attempt at union busting. It is not a mistake that the charge is being lead by Senators from states that are home to auto plants from Toyota, Mercedes, Honda and BMW. All received $100s of millions in subsidies to locate the plants where they are.

The hipocrisy of the Republicans on this absolutely sickens me.

TB

 

[cachsux]

October sales were down as follows: Nissan-37%, Ford-36%,Chrysler-33%,Toyota-32%,Honda-24%,and GM-16%. Three of these are UAW three are not. Kind of tosses the union excuse out the window.

The UAW concession called for were not simply a dollar or two but to reduce salaries to Japanese automaker levels. Anyone here want to give away 1/3 of your pay raise your hand.

 

[moreluck]

Most folks WOULD give away a third of their pay if the other option was to lose your job....no brainer. That would bring them down to a level of regular, non-union job people.

But, the union mentality is "NO, I won't give up a third of my pay !!!!" Then the job disappears. Read about Sun Rubber in Barberton, Ohio and how the union stood their ground proudly there.

 

[moreluck]

On Thursday, UAW said .........no drop in pay in '09.......but they might consider it in 2011 when the contract expires.

So, concessions apparently weren't cash ones.

 

[Catatonic]

Most folks WOULD give away a third of their pay if the other option was to lose your job....no brainer. That would bring them down to a level of regular, non-union job people.

But, the union mentality is "NO, I won't give up a third of my pay !!!!" Then the job disappears. Read about Sun Rubber in Barberton, Ohio and how the union stood their ground proudly there.

Could be part of UAW's strategy to throw the retirees under the bus without taking any blame. Let the companies go into Chapter 11 and reduce / eliminate the retiree benefits and go forward with current union members.

Just a thought, sounds like something a Congressman or a Senator would do ... Union Leadership are elected and therefore just politicians.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

The UAW pointed out during discussions that they had concessions in their last contracts. They also pointed out that any concessions would have to be voted on and approved by membership, a process that could not be completed by March 1, 2009, which is when Republicans wanted the concessions in place by.

This is a clear case of a Republican attempt at union busting. It is not a mistake that the charge is being lead by Senators from states that are home to auto plants from Toyota, Mercedes, Honda and BMW. All received $100s of millions in subsidies to locate the plants where they are.

The hipocrisy of the Republicans on this absolutely sickens me.

TB

Yeah, it has to be an attempt at union busting and not an attempt to get EVERYONE at these companies to make sacrifices in order to save their careers. Good one. Sarcasm intended.

 

[bluehdmc]

Inept management and intelligent decisions, (like a new car division HUMMER or cars like the Excursion) have gotten american car manufactures where they are today. I don't know about the Japanese car manufacturers but you can bet Mercedes, BMW, and other European automakers have unions in their home countries. Probably part of the incentive to manufacture here?

Like someone else mentioned European manufacturers don't have to pay health benefits, (socialized medicine).

We can bail out banks but now the banks aren't loaning anyone any money, they're just buying other banks. Has anyone followed what's going on with Republic Windows in Chicago?

If the automakers go bust, what do you think that's going to do to volume????

 

[Channahon]

Maybe the UAW could give back a few Paid Holidays.

Here are the negoitiated Paid holidays that the UAW recieves under the current contract with Chrysler LLC. This contract extends from 2007 to 2011. According to the US bureau of statistics the 1997 national average for workers paid holidays was 9.3 days while the UAW recieves 17.
This does not include paid vacation time or Paid allowable abscenses.
2007 - 2008

Nov. 16, 2007 Veterans Day
Nov. 22, 2007 Thanksgiving
Nov. 23, 2007 Day after Thanksgiving
Dec. 24, 2007 Christmas
Dec. 25, 2007 Holiday period
Dec. 26, 2007
Dec. 27, 2007
Dec. 28, 2007
Dec. 31, 2007
Jan. 1, 2008
Jan. 21, 2008 Martin Luther King day
Mar. 21, 2008 Good Friday
Mar. 24, 2008 Day after Easter
May 26, 2008 memorial day
July 4, 2008 Independance day
Aug. 29, 2008 Friday before labor day
Sept. 1, 2008 Labor day
2008 to 2011. The number of paid days stays the same for each year ( the actual dates may change)