UPS EMPLOYEES START NEW UNION!

[ups79]

sawman:meant to say "other income from investments". Also the $55/year of service for part time, Is that a UPS pension or a teamsters pension?

 

[sawman]

UPS79, In years prior to 1999 the S&P made record earnings, some years as high as 21 to 22%.
As far as my retirment, I was just esimating the taxes. Even at 20%, I would only get $1185.00 a month. Not much for 43 years of service, and that's 20 years from now 2025. What will the cost of living be then?
The parttime pension of $55.00 is a UPS pension.
But, regardless they are still getting $5.00 more than a full timer. My point on that matter is, look how bad the teamster/Central States pension is. Where have you ever heard of a parttime employee getting a larger pension than a full timer.
These are a few reasons, why UPSers are leaving the teamsters and looking elsewhere. Keeping in mind that this didn"t happen over night, it was after many battles with the CS fund and the Teamsters. WHich by the way CS was started by the Teamsters and CS and the TEamsters have an Equal number of members on the CS board. So the teamster union is as responsable for the cuts as CS.

 

[sawman]

One more thing. Don't think that it want happen to you also!
The APWA has been hearing from people in other funds all over the country, and they are saying that since the largest Fund (CS) made all these cuts to the pension and health care, that there funds think they can get away with making cuts also, and have started reducing there benifits.
Make no mistake about it, cuts are coming to us all, and it is time to put a stop to it.
UPS puts way to much money into our retirement for a UPS employee to retire with anything less than one of the best retirements in the country.
The APWA is working on putting a stop to it, but the word needs to spread. With the large, number of employees UPS, if we stand together against these cuts.
Our futures will be bright again!

 

[30andout]

ups79, I never paid much attention to tdu 27 years ago but the cuts now are real and I think people are finally waking up.

 

[feeders]

The Upstate New York Fund slashed in half the formula for determining future pension benefit accruals. We welcome all of our NEW YORK state Founding Charter Members! We're building a better union, one member at a time!

COME STAND WITH US!

 

[stevoups]

I would ask for this consideration from you all ........When it is time to vote on a new contract and the Union or the company wants to put more of our "raise" money toward fixing the pension, that you vote..."Hell no". Give me my raise, I'll save for my own retirement from now on. Individual Accounts - its the only way to keep track of the money.

 

[wkmac]

I'll save for my own retirement from now on. Individual Accounts - its the only way to keep track of the money.

I'm starting to see this attitude more and more and I'm thrilled at the prospects. I hope CS, the union and the company continue to do things that only feed and fuel this thought process. They seem to form the perfect triangulated fertilizer for this new life that spells freedom and security for the independent minded worker. Once we begin to provide for our own retirement and then our own health needs we are in a better position to walk away at any given moment and when you have a workforce that can do that I wonder then how you would be treated? I wonder then if you would even need or want a union? Something to consider!

 

[curious]

I had to indulge myself and delve into what the APWA has to say about pension fund. After looking at the facts they put out in their "Where's the Money?" flyer, I can't figure out exactly what they are trying to say.

So what they are saying is that after 44 months, I actually would receive back what was contributed to the fund in my name, every cent. (by the way, whoever wrote this flyer, 44 weeks is less than one year, not four. 44 months would be less than 4 years. Probably just a typo, you'll want to improve on that attention to detail thing if you hope to be responsible for hundreds of thousands of people's livelihoods!!) And then, after recouping my principal investment, I will receive my monthly pension checks for another 166 months, almost another 14 years assuming I die when the actuaries tell me to, maybe longer. This is a total cost of $630,000.

Now, the brain trust at APWA wont look to the future to tell me what they will do, they just look back over the past 30 years and tell me that instead of securing $630,000 for my retirement, they would have secured me $688,288. Wow, what a difference..not so much. Most people have 20/20 hindsight, $58,288 is all the difference they say they could have made??? I aint that smart, but looking back over the past 30 years, even I could do better than a $58,288 difference. So they are asking me to take a chance on them so that they can manage the money or someone they know can manage it for only 1/10 of one percent of the money? Hell, for a bottle of whiskey and a pack of Winstons, my Uncle Jed can manage the money and I think he even knows the difference between a week and a month

It appears that they have retained legal counsel, so he can probably answer this for you as well. A friend of yours stated on another site: "The Department of Labor probably only recognizes the official agent of a collective bargaining unit AFTER the agent has been elected by the employees through the decertification process outlined by the NLRB."
Heres what actually happens in a decertification election, if you actually win, you are barred from having ANY labor union represent you for a period of one year. ONE YEAR with absolutely NO rights, no seniority, no guaranteed benefits, no overtime except after 40 hours, no paid vacations, nothing. What do you think almighty UPS will do in the vacuum of no representation! I dont think I need to elaborate on that any further. Assuming that you are still employed there after one year, (unlikely) you then get the task of organizing from the ground up, one center at a time all over the country, all alone. Sounds like fun to me!!! Im sure the people fighting for representation at DHL can tell you just how easy its not!

 

[feeders]

Here is the latest update on the APWA

We are now caught up on sending out the Charter Membership cards. If you have not received your member card, and if it has been at least 28 days since you submitted your application, please email us at our website.

Last month in an APWA meeting in Memphis, Tennessee, local union officials stood up and interrupted the meeting. They demanded that we answer a laundry list of their questions. They were politely asked to leave, and they refused to do so. Hotel security was called in to remove the gentlemen from the conference room. They did not leave until they were threatened to be arrested for trespassing by hotel security. They asked hotel security if staying in the lobby was considered trespassing. When told by hotel security that they may remain in the lobby, they waited in the lobby, and harassed UPS employees entering and leaving the APWA meeting.

As a result of this encounter in Memphis, we decided to limit future APWA meetings to UPS hourly employees only. Also, we would have an off duty police officer at every APWA meeting for security.

On Saturday April 9, 2005 in a much publicized APWA meeting in Louisville, Kentucky the following happened. When we got to our conference room, we found out that local union officials had rented the conference room beside us. They were filling their conference room with freight and car hauler drivers. The two conference rooms were separated by rollaway dividers with a common hallway for the two. As promised, we had an off duty police officer for security at the meeting.

Shortly after our meeting started, the freight and car haulers crashed in. The single police officer that we had for security did his best to prevent an all our riot! He told us that we needed at least two more uniformed officers, and if we had them, a lot of the thugs would have gone to jail! With a crowd of about 100 UPS employees at the meeting, and an equal amount outside, who were prevented from entering the conference center by thugs, we decided to end the meeting as quickly as possible for the safety of all UPSers present.

Thanks to all of you who came out to support us in Louisville. We saw those APWA
T-shirts, they looked great, again thanks for your show of solidarity. What happened in Louisville has only strengthened our resolve!

Make no mistake about it. WE ARE COMING BACK TO LOUISVILLE, KY

Now we know how desperate the local union officials are. They are trying to keep you from hearing the facts about the APWA. We will have an even stronger uniformed police presence at future meetings to ensure the safety of all UPSers attending.
COME STAND WITH US!

(Message edited by feeders on April 14, 2005)

 

[my2cents]

I was one of the attendees at the Louisville meeting and flew in for the occasion. I had a window seat on both legs of my arriving and departing flights and was treated to a great aerial view of the massive international UPS sorting operation there. Too bad tours weren't offered at the complex. I would have taken one.

At any rate, there's nothing like seeing what is actually happening with the movement by getting into the trenches, which is why I decided to attend this meeting. Phone calls and emails only take one so far. It was a privilege to meet the acting President, the Senior Vice President, the APWA attorney and the brave KY UPSers at the meeting.

I provide this account for those who are curious of what currently goes on at an APWA meeting. This account is mine only and others may have had a different experience in a dissimilar environment. Feeders gives a good summary of the events that day, and I'll offer up a few more details, although I'll leave the name of the hotel out and the involved Local Union. As Feeders noted, the adjoining conference room was rented by the involved Local Union and was well stocked with donuts, muffins, other assorted pastries, etc. Later in the APWA meeting, these expeditures were criticized as being a complete waste of dues money.

This conference room was believed to have been rented for two purposes. One was to create confusion. Just maybe an APWA meeting attendee would mistakenly walk into this meeting area and think the meeting was here and would be taken in by the free food. The second was an attempt to intimidate the APWA attendees who were in the APWA meeting room, by creating a boisterous environment next door, punctuated with moderately hostile banter and laughter. Just letting everybody know that they are next door.

The meeting was slated to begin at 10:00 AM and the militants were, for the most part, in place by 9:00 AM, making their presence felt. As the APWA meeting time drew closer, the militants gradually became increasingly noisier and hung out in the lobby, creating a "picket line" of sorts, so APWA attendees would have to run the gauntlet to get inside the proper conference room. Kudos to the hearty souls who braved the "picket line" and the potential diversion set up next door, with the free food sitting there.

The meeting did not start on time as the militants streamed in. The President, attempted to start the meeting, but a boisterous ruckus was coming to a head. One shouted out, if the teamsters are out, there will be no union for a year, which was later debunked as false by the APWA attorney because it is a simple replacement. Anyway, the involved Local Union President was a nuisance making attempts to disrupt the meeting, even though the APWA President graciously offered to let him ask the attorney questions, which must have been unfinished business from a past meeting. One militant was asked to leave after asking loaded and provocative questions and the off-duty police officer had to show him the door, but also had to show him his badge. On his way out, the militant whined about the poor treatment potential members get for asking questions. The security guard later complained these people don't understand the difference between private and public property. On private property, the unruly are trespassing.

A couple more militants took turns approaching the podium and conference table to jeer the APWA President, Senior Vice President and the attorney. It is believed the militants wanted to give the "union busting" attorney a hard time. One had a cup of water with him and splashed it on both the Senior Vice President and the attorney, while demanding they go back to their right-to-work state in NC and to get out of KY, before stomping off. Presentation materials were also wadded up into paper balls and thrown at the Senior Vice President or ripped in half and thrown into the air. All three stood up stoically to the militants. They did not flinch and were poised and polite, which made the militants really look stupid. One militant even had the audacity to bring his kid with him and other militants actually criticized him for it. One woman who gave the impression of supporting the APWA, pulled out her camera and started taking pictures. Finally, one militant said something like, "whoever stays here is a scab," while looking around the room for them, and just like that they all left, including the woman with the camera. The militants went back outside into the lobby and loudly hung out in the lobby and their conference room before gradually leaving the hotel. Another woman stayed as the meeting was restarted and tried the same tactic of asking a list of provocative questions before stomping off herself. All-in-all, the ruckus wasted about 20-25 minutes of meeting time. Later as the meeting was finally settling in and as the militants were leaving, one slapped on the conference room window to send one final message.

Once the meeting was actually started, the APWA President gave about a 40 minute presentation. The materials, which were presented, are similar to the information on the APWA website. From there it was a question and answer session.

A few of the main highlights of the Q and A sesson included points made by the APWA attorney. He claimed he was not a "union busting attorney," but instead he said "people bust unions" - meaning the actual employees who want to get rid of or change the bargaining agent. One attendee compared him to a divorce attorney, which was a good analogy. He said his main job is to inform employees what their rights are under the law. He will also represent employees who are harassed for wanting another union by filing unfair labor practice charges with the NLRB, as a duty of fair representation case.

Furthermore, all UPS employees around the country will be designated as one national bargaining unit for representational purposes. Local bargaining units like we have now will be a thing of the past, if this campaign is successful. Once 30% of the employees sign a petition for decertification, an election can be held. Once an election is held, only 50% of those who vote for decertification are needed to win the election. From there, it will be a process of certifying the APWA as bargaining agent and at this point the APWA becomes a real union, instead of the 501(c)(5) nonprofit status it has now. From what I understand, as much of this process as possible will take place online and via mail-in ballots. The meeting attendees liked the idea of the online petition forms and the mail-in ballots because it will reduce the opportunities for voter intimidation. The APWA is trying to lay the groundwork now for it's goal of a hopefully smooth transition as bargaining agent in 2008.

So in short, I'm glad I went. Even though the meeting was set against a chaotic backdrop of hostile crowd psychology, it didn't stop me and others from attending. It was worth seeing where the movement is going first hand and if others have the opportunity, one should try to attend a meeting when the APWA comes to town. It will take some courage to attend a meeting, but I just remind myself of the Iraqi people who recently voted in their own democratic elections.

 

[ezrider]

My2cents

How much of an impression would these APWA officials have made on you and others in attendance if there hadn't been a virtual parade of idiots from the "brotherhood" putting on another classless spectacle that seemingly defines the public relations manual of the Teamsters? Would you and others have had a more or less favorable opinion of the APWA's message with or without the Jerry Springer crowd crashing the party?

Do any of these guys have any experience negotiating sizeable contracts? I'm not knocking the idea of APWA by any means, but good intentions won't make a difference in 2008 without a plan. The company at the bargaining table is likely going to resemble Mike Tyson in his prime. If the hourlies go into negotiations with a lightweight, I'd hate to think how much disarray there could be once the bleeding stops. Any insight as to how these guys would hold up against the best hired guns the corporate crowd in Atlanta could buy?

 

[ok2bclever]

That is certainly despicable and reprehensible behavior and would seem to be counterproductive as well.

There is no doubt that there are some locals run by idiots, goons and scum.

That doesn't mean they represent the majority of locals and it also shows that the APWA is learning as it goes.

Not a bad thing, but not necessarily a good thing either.

It is one thing to be surprised by some heavy handed union thugs and to say the APWA will be better prepared for the next learning session (real life), but what concerns me, would the APWA be in for the same type of "taken by surprise" by business guerilla warfare while learning to negotiate a contract with UPS?

Unfortunately, I believe so.

Honesty and idealism is to be applauded, but. . .

With the lengths that the contracts now go for I am not sure how many members could afford to have student drivers at the helm.

 

[my2cents]

Good questions ezrider. As far as impressions are concerned, it made no difference to me because I met the officers, the attorney and a KY UPSer for breakfast before the meeting. We all became acquainted with each other and even discussed some off-topic subjects, like college basketball. The spectacle put on by the involved Local Union was no surprise at all to me. In fact, I expected it. First, I received a heads-up warning from the APWA President when we were going over the final details of my impending attendance for this meeting. Second, common sense tells you to expect the possibility of some sort of shenanigans to occur. From my understanding, this Louisville meeting was a retaliation of sorts for the APWA's successful meeting in Lexington. In fact, a few of the attendees at the APWA meeting made the drive from Lexington (about an hour's drive) for the Louisville meeting.

In regards to the contract negotiations, I believe the APWA would hire attorneys or skilled agents for this purpose. Even though good questions were asked by the meeting attendees, this question did not come up during the meeting, so this would be a good question to ask on their website. Personally, it wouldn't bother me if a team of attorneys or agents negotiated the contract because this is a routine practice in the sports and entertainment world. Moreover, my own confidence was further bolstered by meeting the APWA attorney. I soon realized he really is working in the genuine interests of the APWA. He is merely serving his clients, just like any other attorney does for their clients.

In regards to security, the APWA President admitted he made a mistake here. The lone off-duty police officer was a bit stressed after the meeting. One could tell by his facial expression alone. If a future meeting is expected to be in a volitile setting, I believe more security will be on hand to ensure the safety of those who wish to attend an APWA meeting. The APWA President takes this issue seriously, as he asked me and I'm sure others, if the remainder of my stay in Louisville was a safe one.

(Message edited by my2cents on April 16, 2005)

 

[over9five]

I think it is so sad that the attendees need protection from our own union!!! What a sorry bunch to have to be a bunch of goons. Makes me want to attend the next APWA meeting.

 

[30andout]

over9five I hope you REALLY want to attend the next APWA meeting and thats not chicken feathers I smell burning, I hope this kind of crap by the Teamsters doesn't keep anyone from sticking up for their future.

 

[over9five]

To be honest, outside of this board I've never even heard of APWA. Maybe they haven't made it to New England yet?

 

[proups]

This movement created by the AWPA amazes me. I haven't been watching it that closely since it seemed to be based in North Carolina.

The AWPA needs to think ahead about security when planning their meetings. I think we can all relate to the strike in 1997 and the violence that took place in various cities across the country on the picket lines and with the people trying to deliver packages during the strike - many of them Teamsters, or, as some would say, scabs.

This type of behavior by the Teamsters in Louisville does not surprise me. They may have Hoffa Jr. in office, but you will never convince me that the Teamsters union is not run by mobs or heavy mob influence. Violence is no stranger to them. If you read about any of their strikes against any company, there is violence involved.

I don't know if another union will be a good or bad thing for union represented UPS employees. If business doesn't pick up, whichever union sits down to negotiate with UPS in 2008 may be negotiating with a smaller company with less to offer - maybe even asking for concessions. We all need to be cognizant of that and help to build up UPS. One only needs to look at what General Motors is facing with their union. GM has health benefits and workers comp costs that exceeded five billion dollars over the last year - more than their profits. UPS is faced with the same problems.

Having said all of that, I will watch AWPA and their efforts. I would just ask the people organizing these meetings to get enough security to manage the inevitable Teamster presence. Otherwise, you put UPSers in harm's way.

 

[my2cents]

over9five,

Although I could be wrong, I believe most of the meetings to date are in areas where the Central States Pension Fund has jurisdiction. As far as I know, they haven't made it into New England yet. They have a lot of ground to cover, so some patience is in order for whenever they do come. Having said that however, if you can get a small group of sincere people who would like to hear a presentation and actually attend a meeting, contact them. I can't speak for them or know what their schedule is, but I believe they will try to set up a meeting for your respective audience. These meetings are set up as discreetly as humanly possible for the safety of everyone who participates in these meetings.

 

[moreluck]

Just a rhetorical question/thought....

It really makes you think, what are the teamsters so afraid of?

 

[sawman]

Over9five,

The movement is spreading rapidly, but you're right, there are many that have yet to get the word but this will change. It takes time for an undertaking sure as this.

My suggestion to all UPSers is to visit the APWA web site. On the web site there is a contact us page where UPSers can email the officers to get answers to there questions and to request the APWA to come to your area and set up a meeting.