UPS EMPLOYEES START NEW UNION!

[ok2bclever]

te, you misunderstand my statement.

I am saying the majority of the posts are about how UPS is a saint and the union is useless.

neither is true and so I respond the most to those.

Throw out a bunch of statements that UPS is worthless or only out to fire people and I will be posting against those.

Same with the Teamster stuff, you want to say the Teamsters are trustworthy, have done a fine job and are only concerned with doing what's right for us and I will be all over that too.

 

[ok2bclever]

good ole tie, still only reading into stuff what you want to hear.

Disappointing, but not unexpected, no links huh?

"The company took a strike over the pension to save us"? That's a new one.

You play the fantasy leagues don't you.

Wonder why they were so pissed at us when we came back from that stupid strike.

Seems like they would have treated us poor misled employees with pity that they had failed to help us.

Not sure where you are twisting my words into the pension problem was created by UPS as I didn't say that.

What I have said is UPS was just as aware of the problem as the union and that I haven't seen any public (or private) actions geared towards helping UPS employees with this problem.

I have seen them screw the retirees by bumping the medical premiums to the sky if that is what you are referring to.

That is just a simple fact.

And while I try to not call you stupid everytime you try to twist my words it is irritating.

R E A D S L O W E R.

I voted FOR the '97 contract to GIVE UPS the pension, so kiss mine regarding "you give the old don't trust the company with our pension line".

Your statement that you are sorry is one I happen to agree with though.

I have criticized the Teamsters more proactively than you ever have.

I have organized petitions that included 90 plus percent of my centers multiple times in just the last five years and sent them all to the International.

I have sent multiple emails with my real name to Hoffa Jr protesting things the union does wrong (hell, I sent snail mail to Carey before him and McCarthy before him and Presser before him and Fitzsimmons before him) I never got off a letter to Williams as he went to jail too quickly.

I have led delegations to the local hall protesting past local jerks and sat at meetings being vilified by 100 fat slobs in master freight jackets with only two UPS brothers at my sides for speaking up about things "buster brown shouldn't put their noses in".

I turned down running on the last incumbent slate as the UPS "token" and telling them because they were a corrupt bunch of son of a b*tchs when they asked me why, which I imagine was one of the reasons the current union administration wanted me as steward as they are an honest bunch.

So don't tell me I don't hold the union accountable or criticize them because you don't know jack.

ups79, that is a very astute observation and a very definite possible direction UPS could go as that is a current corporate trend to dump existing defined benefit plans and switch to defined contribution plans such as a 401k as the only company supported pension plan.

If they legally pay their pulling out of the funds penalties or legistlate them away this is a very possible scenario and one the APWA should give serious consideration about in any wording regarding giving up future raises to help UPS finance pulling out of the existing pensions.

 

[tonyexpress]

ok,

"I am saying the majority of the posts are about how UPS is a saint and the union is useless.

I beg to differ. There are plenty of people expressing their dismay for UPS on this board.

With topics such as PAS, LOW MORALE, OVER DISPATCH,etc. Many of the employees who post on here equally, if not more often, express that UPS is unworthy of Sainthood.

The Union on the other hand really hasn't done a whole lot for the UPS employees. But I wouldn't say they're completely useless.

(Message edited by tonyexpress on February 23, 2005)

 

[brownmonster]

You can't afford not to put something in your 401K. The only person you can trust with your pension is yourself.

 

[ok2bclever]

te, well I would say your statements actually support mine better than yours.

You name only three subjects out of how many.

Realize, the issue isn't one of not happy about this or that it's the extreme one sidedness ones that get me.

But staying with your choices the main threads on over dispatch that got lots of posts was pre-November naturally as Nov & Dec are contractually exempt and drivers accept this.

I remember arguing the company's side on that one with drivers that were saying the company wasn't doing anything about the issue.

On the low moral, if I remember that one was pretty much about some fed ex dude and the non-UPS guy who had inherited a fortune in UPS stock and didn't want to hear anyone complaining.

While I acknowledged this was a hard job I also mentioned my personal one had gotten easier and said nobody buy UPS people can get away with saying anything bad about our family.

The PAS issue I took the company's side I believe.

Your statement about the union not doing anything for the UPS employees is about as wrong as you can get (wages, benefits, pension, working conditions, still having a job, etc), but that argument has been retrashed enough I'd say.

And please don't beg, it's degrading.

 

[ok2bclever]

Brownmonster,

After reviewing the last six years or so of my 401k I am not even sure that I can trust "yourself".

(Message edited by ok2bclever on February 23, 2005)

 

[brownmonster]

Stay the course my son.

 

[ups_gal_710]

Very well said Brownmonster !!!

 

[tieguy]

"tie, you got a brother or an unregistered alias, all of fe's posts tend to be disdainful of workers?"

OKie once again you prove why I think you are dispicably dishonest. I have never had disdain for UPSers or workers , In fact I have the highest regard for all UPSers. I do however dispise you because you are dishonest and because I am firmly convinced you have never earned your keep. Your inexecusable defense of this leaking bucket pension system again proves my point. If you have a worthy defense of this pig of a pension system feel free to offer it. Everytime you start whining about the facts I present by whining I know you have lost the battle.

 

[tieguy]

"It beats waiting and hoping the company does anything for us."

I take it regurgitating the above line means you have stopped hoping the union will do anything to save itself?

 

[tieguy]

"Think of the guys in these multi employer plans and what it would mean to the pensions they worked hard their whole life to earn. Is it their fault their employer went out of business. Isn't the Union and being a union member all about brotherhood? This is a tough issue. Try to get your teamster pension after the money goes to this new proposed union. Hard enough to get correct answers and amounts now."

Brown perhaps that is the problem. The multi-employer plan is basically set up to protect the teamster should his company go out of business. Its not a system that builds any loyalty towards the company. The problem is too many teamster companies went out of business and very few if any are rejoining. No large ones joining. UPSers should support the union brotherhood but not at the expense of their retirement.

 

[30andout]

Very well said Tie, it seems lately the IBT is looking out for their best interests not for UPS employees. Sometimes I would like to see what I pay dues for.

 

[speeddemon]

I agrre with you on that one Tie.

 

[ok2bclever]

Many here disagree with each other's views, but only you consistently resort to personal attacks and name calling.

I refuse to lower myself to your level.

As far as your statement "I have never had disdain for UPSers or workers", What do you call your diatribe in this same post?

Even though you seriously need a spell checker for the larger words you try to use such as "dispicably" and "dispise" and "inexecusable" I am pretty sure you must consider those disdainful.

I was a part-time employee for 4 1/2 years, drove for 16 years and have clerked for 12 years.

I had 16 years safe driving, in all those years I have never received a warning letter.

Not one.

I have a card from American Express that UPS gave me with a balance on it from new business accounts I have gotten for the company that continues to grow.

I have been given UPS apparel from a district manager that I had never met in recognition for the most claims reduction in a year in his district the first year I became the senior clerk at the customer center, this was not a contest and I did not ask for it.

I can line up more management that will back my integrity than you have years with the company, a lot more.

I have watched you attack many other workers here when you didn't like what they said which is why I first started fronting you and became your favorite target.

Do not tell me you don't show disdain for the workers of UPS because that is a lie.

 

[ups79]

ok:anything you haven't done? Hell I've been to three county fairs and a horse race.

 

[dannyboy]

"I refuse to lower myself to your level. "

Awh now come on.........you know you love it when tie pays special attention to you. Each time he posts, you cant wait to post a page or 12

While at times I too have butted heads with Tie, many of his posts make a lot of sense when you really read what he is posting.

I think someone once told me he didnt suffer the ignorant very well or some such. Mind is slipping.

d PS, glad you are racking up the American Express points. Funny thing the other day I tried to use mine to get some gas, and while I do have a 4 figure ballance, it was refused.

 

[ok2bclever]

Ok, on to actual adult discussion.

I have not stopped hoping the union pension fund can "save itself", but the outlook is dismal.

Not sure where you think I defend the pension fund.

Unless it is when I state solid financial and demographic reasons why the funds (not just union pension funds) are in financial trouble, rather than agreeing with the emotional accusations that the pension funds are in trouble from mismanagement or illegal activities?

It is easy and emotionally satisfying to blame some "they" group for doing something wrong regarding the disappointing pension situation, but that doesn't make it right.

I will stand by those statements.

 

[ok2bclever]

ups79, well I won first place in a spelling bee in third grade and ten buck on the MegaMillions last week, but I didn't think those pertinent.

 

[ups79]

you did not repeat as spelling bee champion in fourth grade?

 

[ok2bclever]

danny, yeah, I have trouble suffering tie, but it is the price of talking to guys like you.

I agree, every now and then when he isn't in active personal attack mode he sometimes actually make sense.

I have even stated that publicly directly to him on occasion.

He's wrong a lot too though.

And disdainful.

No, I really don't enjoy being called dishonest, even with mispelled adverbs and I do not want to go flame slumming with him like he baited me into last summer.

Yeah, the one time I tried to use the card at a gas station it wouldn't work either and the only other time was at a resteraunt where it turned out they don't take American Express (apparently the commercials are true), so the balance continues to grow.

Perhaps a pension supplement if I stay long enough.