What is our incentive to join the teamsters?

[UPSFreightMan]

$3200............

Just ask Local 804! His pension was just reduced 30%

 

[UPSFreightMan]

Something to Ponder... In a contract your pension is set in stone at an agreed amount. Working at UPS Freight your pension is calculated at your best 5 consecutive years of your last 10. I plan to retire in 20 years. By then my pay should be between 80-90k year.. This will put my pension in the 4k mo range. While under the contract you will be set at 3k..

 

[Teamster251]

Something to Ponder... In a contract your pension is set in stone at an agreed amount. Working at UPS Freight your pension is calculated at your best 5 consecutive years of your last 10. I plan to retire in 20 years. By then my pay should be between 80-90k year.. This will put my pension in the 4k mo range. While under the contract you will be set at 3k..

First of all, and this has been said a thousand time I guess you just can't grasp the whole thing, the contract has nothing to do with what you get for your pension. NO WHERE in the contract does it mention a specific amount you will receive upon retirement. The contract does however mention contribution rates that the company agrees to pay in your behalf to the pension funds. THERE IS NO "SET IN STONE AMOUNT" IN THE CONTRACT...............PERIOD

Like your Overnite salary/wages grow, so do the pension contributions and pension rates with the pension funds.

Are you assuming that that we, under contract, are only getting 3000 per month 20 years from now while your pension grows and ours doesn't. Besides the fact the your assumption is wrong, you must believe that the mob and the teamsters are still building casinos and borrowing moneis from the funds.
Let me also mention that those funds that were mis-used, but paid back, were also aprroved by the trucking company execs on the trustee boards at the time of this wrong doing.

Here are some facts those Overnite Anti-Union Propoganda Meetings forgot to mention.
1. Your union pension grows as you do with the fund wehter it be with said companynor another.
2. Most info and propogandas used in theose meeting were facts or action from the 70's.
3. Joining the union doesn't "start you over", you retain comapny seniority, hire dates, vacations earned, etc.
4. The of loans (stealing as they put it), lawyer fees, administration over fees for running tenson are over.
5. Being non flexitive becasue you are Union is a falsehood. The union goes out of its way to make sure the comany can operate and survivie. Remember without the compnay the union doesn't exist.

The lsit goes on and on.

Bottom line is the company (then Overnite) didn't want the union. UPS however wants it, works better with it, has better connol of its worker with it, can control its operation better, equally, and on a level playing feild thoughout the system with it.

T251


PS BTW if you only expect to make 80-90 grand in 20 years you will be living at poverty level base on the growth rate of infaltion and cola

 

[Teamster251]

Just ask Local 804! His pension was just reduced 30%

804s pension was not reduced by 30%

Another falsehood.

The accural rate was reduced by 30%. No pension moneies were lost. All pension monies and project payment reamin the same under the plan. Future contribtions were reduced by UPS by 30% making for and future lower payout based on all future accural rates. 804s pension remains trhe same as it did on up until the accural rates were reduced, hence making a smaller future payout prediction.
Your statement: Just ask 804! His pension was just reduced by 30%. Is absolutly false

I guess you didn't bother to read anything about that either, let alone understand what was written.

 

[Teamster251]

You have to be insane to join the Teamsters!!! They will steal your pension and reduce it so that they can take a big piece of the pie for themselves. Look what they have done for the pensions at UPS.

What have they done to the pensions at UPS?

Tell us

 

[wildgoose]

What have they done to the pensions at UPS?

Tell us

Mismanaged the funds ? Bad investments ? No accountability ! How many funds are underfunded ?

 

[local804]

Just ask Local 804! His pension was just reduced 30%

I have to agree with Teamster 251 on this one. All of our years past are grandfathered in(full pension) and this year(2007) is at a 30% reduction.
Points to remember for further posts.
1. The Teamsters DID not vote yes for the reduction.
2. Howie Redmond,Bill Buhlert,Tony Mangrene all local 804 voted against it.
3. The teamsters DID NOT vote yes for the reducion.
4. All the people that cant remember s#it, I had to rewrite 1 over again.
5. The 30% reduction is not a dead issue.
6. There is a fight ahead and we will be ready.
7. 804 is one of the largest Teamster locals on the east coast.
8. 804 is one of the first unions with a 25 and out pension.
9. You play with fire, you will get burnt!

 

[wildgoose]

I have to agree with Teamster 251 on this one. All of our years past are grandfathered in(full pension) and this year(2007) is at a 30% reduction.
Points to remember for further posts.
1. The Teamsters DID not vote yes for the reduction.
2. Howie Redmond,Bill Buhlert,Tony Mangrene all local 804 voted against it.
3. The teamsters DID NOT vote yes for the reducion.
4. All the people that cant remember s#it, I had to rewrite 1 over again.
5. The 30% reduction is not a dead issue.
6. There is a fight ahead and we will be ready.
7. 804 is one of the largest Teamster locals on the east coast.
8. 804 is one of the first unions with a 25 and out pension.
9. You play with fire, you will get burnt!

Well i`m glad the fire got lit under your carcass ! So lets see how tuff you northern guys are to rescend the reduction ? I`m waiting to see what the teamster fix can be ? I don`t think you can turn around the underfunding of 59% That means 41% has been lost or whatever ????????

 

[Bill]

Okay you say you have 6 yrs left.
1.) Specualtion is that the Teamsters will offer three for one on future pension credits and vest them after 5 yrs. If this holds true you wold have a 18 yr Teamster pension along with you current pension after 6yrs.
2.) 40%???? Where are you getting this number? Which fund are you talking about? Is your pension 100% becuase they (Overnite/UPSF management) are telling you this or is the Teamster pension (which fund) is 40% funded becuase they (Overnite/UPSF management) are telling you this. You claim you have a fact sheet that says it 100%, you can get the facts from the Psension too. You are from PA, do you know which fund you would be covered under? Certianly not the imfamous Central States. I suggest you research your local area Teamster Pension fund yourself and get the answers to funding, companies involved, and contributors, along with the company and Teamster trustee names. These individuals can answer the question better than anyone.

3.) Now if the pension funds are your only reason for joining or not joining the Teamsters, why are you even considering it.
Do you want a voice in the workplace?
Do want protection against unjust firing or disipline?
Do you want protection against subcontracting or farming out of your work to other companies.
Do you want paid medical, dental, eye care, legal, burial, dismemberment and death benifits for zilch?
Do you want job security, the protection offered against someone with less seniority taking your job or start time based on favoritism, nepatism or retailiazation.
Do want to be paid for all duties preformed instead of giving up time spent on or with company property preforming duties directed toward you to preform by the company?
Do you want fair days wage for a fair days work.
Paid holidays guarenteed?
Paid personal time off guarenteed?
Sick days paid without filing an insurance claim?
Overtime after 8?
Time and a half plus 8 on holidays if asked or forced to work?
Do you want your rights as an American worker respected?
Do you want to be repected on or in the work place by your superiors and peers?

I don't beileve in extened warranties, but I do believe in maintaining and continuing to grow. The rest will take care of itself.

T251

You are confusing the facts from speculation.
Why would the Teamsters offer three for one credits toward a pension? If they can not afford to pay a pension now, how in the world can they give us three years credit for each year? Speculation is all that this is. Probably started by you.
40% is a fact. UPS people only receive 40% of the money that UPS contributes. The rest goes toward other companies and for Teamster leaders and business agents (you are probably one of them).
Where did you get your facts from? UPS does what they want and always will. The Teamsters are a greedy bunch of people stealing our pension and medical benefits. They are looking out for themselves while we are forced to work at a hard job until age 65, which most of us will not be able to attain. Let's not even discuss nepotism. The Teamsters have family members on the payroll who do little or nothing while collecting a check. The Teamsters are corrupt and will never change. It doesn't matter who won the last election, because they are obligated to give away our money and use it for their personal benefits. Why do you think the voting turnout was so small? Nobody cared who the winner was, because once again, it did not matter. When the vote comes between the Teamsters and the APWA, you will see a much bigger turnout, because under the APWA, we can take our union back, and make things right.

 

[Bill]

t

This Is exactly what I'm talking about. These guys are all worried about their pension and nothing else. Just how much more they can get than the IBT can offer. Most of the oldtimers are not worried about workrules, shinywheels, wages, ect.... There just laying low until their out date. So of coarse the pension is the only thing they are thing about. Not what is best for all employees. Who's got their head up where now?

First of all, how do you know that these guys only worry about their pensions and nothing else? Are you a mindreader, have ESP, or some other power that no one else has? How about security after retiring. There is none with the Teamsters. As far as pensions go, the younger workers whould be more concerned than the older workers. In Central States, the pension has been cut in half for all future accruals. This means that a new employee would have to work twice as many years as an employee with 30 years to receive his full pension. He would have to work 60 years to get a 30 year pension. Let's assume a new driver started working at age 21. He would have to be 81 to receive the same full pension!!!!! His body will break down long before this age, and futhermore, why should he have to?

 

[Bill]

3.) Now if the pension funds are your only reason for joining or not joining the Teamsters, why are you even considering it.
Do you want a voice in the workplace? ALREADY HAVE ONE
Do want protection against unjust firing or disipline? PEER REVIEW BOARD ALREADY DOES THE JOB
Do you want protection against subcontracting or farming out of your work to other companies. ONLY AREAS WITH NO TERMINALS ARE SUBBED OUT> ACTUALLY HIRING AT A FAST RATE
Do you want paid medical, dental, eye care, legal, burial, dismemberment and death benifits for zilch? NOT TRUE> SOME LOCALS IN NEW CONTRACTS ARE HAVING TO PAY DUES AS WELL AS MEDICAL BENEFITS>
Do you want job security, the protection offered against someone with less seniority taking your job or start time based on favoritism, nepatism or retailiazation. MY JOB IS SECURE AND SENIORITY IS ENFORCED. ALL START TIMES AND EXTRA WORK IS ASSIGNED IN SENIORITY ORDER
Do want to be paid for all duties preformed instead of giving up time spent on or with company property preforming duties directed toward you to preform by the company? I GET PAID FOR ALL DUTIES I PERFORM
Do you want fair days wage for a fair days work. CAN'T GET MORE THEN THE MASTER FREIGHT AGREEMENT. AT THE RATE WE ARE GETTING RAISES NEXT YEAR WE WILL SURPASS MASTER FREIGHT Paid holidays guarenteed? I AM PAID MY 9 HOLIDAYS AND HAVE NO ISSUES
Paid personal time off guarenteed? I AM PAID MY 3 PERSONAL DAYS WHETHER I USE THEM OR NOT.
Sick days paid without filing an insurance claim? IF I FILE A SICK PAY CLAIM, I CAN GET UP TO 5 WEEKS at 100% pay and AN ADDITIONAL 22 WEEKS at 60% pay
Overtime after 8? IF THERE IS ONE ITEM I CAN AGREE ON WITH YOU IT IS THIS> Not worth my time to get a union involved over 1 item. 2009 Will be 40 hours anyway. although it is not as good as after 8 I will take it.
Do you want your rights as an American worker respected? I HAVE RESPECT
Do you want to be repected on or in the work place by your superiors and peers? I AM RESPECTED BY MY SUPERIORS

WHAT IT ALL COMES DOWN TO IS:::

IF I DO NOT WANT TO WORK AND WANT TO DRAG MY ASS THEN I SHOULD BECOME A TEAMSTER. AS LONG AS I DO MY JOB EFFICIENTLY, I HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT. I have watched other drivers get fired and go to the peer review board and get their job back. It is alot harder to get fired here then working for a union company. trust me i have worked for both.

You said it all. Bravo. The Teamsters are only looking to make themselves richer.

 

[Bill]

But when it comes down to it you will vote for apwa. If you need the apwa it must not be that great of a job.

apwa= We have our own union (some sort of bragging rights)= greedy employees.

You are confusing greed with what we are entitled to. We had a pension that wasn't that great to begin with, and the greedy Teamsters decided to cut our pension and medical benefits. While Hoffa and his cronies are receiving huge salaries and hefty pensions, ours are being weakened. Why should UPS contribute $1.3 billion annually, and see their workers only receive 40% of that amount? All we want is that all the money that UPS contributes for our benefits go to us. Why should other companies and the Teamsters profit from the hard working UPS people? Is that unreasonable? I don't think so, but apparently you do. You must be in the Teamsters and getting a piece of this money, because without this money form UPS, you can no longer dip your gredy hands in our money.

 

[Bill]

Labor Laws, Labor Laws, Labor Laws?!? thats all you have to say about the things posted above?

I had one job where i worked for six years, never got paid for holidays, never got paid for personal time off, sick days? yeah right, never got a hint of overtime pay after 8 hrs!!

and your telling me labor laws cover all that? yeah okay, time to wake up buddy, labor laws dont mean squat.

You forgot to mention the job you did. Did you work in McDonalds?

 

[Bill]

First of all your choice of forgien cars shows where your loyality lies.



Questions answered with questions and complete generalizations that follow.



As a matter of fact I was fired. For stealing time. 22 minutes to be exact. Computer said I was not on property, time card did. I was fired for what a time study sheet pointed out to a manager. I was reinstated after steward called and found supervisor that saw me clock in.


Again another question for a question


This doesn't make sense. Dues have nothing to do with benifits. In my 22 years as a Teamster never has any company or Union officail insinuate that they did.
Again I pay nothing weekly for any benifits supplied to me by my loval as contracted with my empoloyer

Are we working for an Airline? I quess you can answer questions with questions, I must be able to also.



None of these answers make any sence. Labor laws don't protect y9u against anyof these becasue they are un-enforcable.


Are you sure you didn't mean our culture is being run into the ground by the corporations.

Where have you been living? Our benefits are no longer free. The yearly deductibles have doubled, pharmaceuticals have gone form $10 per prescription to 20%-25%, and now 50% if you don't mail in the prescription. It is a battle getting the insurance company to pay for anything anymore. They keep saying this is not covered or that procedure will only pay so much. We are stuck paying the difference, which in some cases, is quite steep. Would you like to amend your statement that we have free healthcare?

 

[Bill]

Excellent response, Teamster251!

Instead of constantly moving your eye, why don't you focus on the real issues. You can't see the real picture if your focus keeps wandering.

 

[Bill]

Yes, product that's of higher quality yet made by employees that don't have powerful unions that allow them to make more money for their unskilled labour than someone like a Registered Nurse, police officer, or paramedic. I believe in workers rights, but not the Scandanavian vision of protectionism, which ends up hurting more people than it helps.

Since when are you an expert on the Scandanavian way of doing things. Actually, they have better health care than we do. Most of Europe has better care than us.
Money grows on trees.



I used the airline as an example of how scheduling worked out. You're mentioning scheduling, so I gave an example of an airline, and how unionized shops were a lot different when it came to scheduling than non-union shops, in that shift-bidding is a major pain in the ass, unless you're king of the hill.


They obviously are if 95% of corporations are compliant. And if they're not, your friends, labor lawyers, would be of great help.



No, I meant corporate culture. But I guess that's a foreign term to a union apologist. And if Wal-Mart was unionized, you wouldn't be saying our culture is being destroyed. After all, they would make $20/hr. Hyper-inflation helps offset cultural deterioration.

Unions are like for-profit corporations. They have good things, bad things to them. If you see unions are the knight in shining armor and the for-profit corporations as the monster (or the other way around), then you're a reactionary, and need to crack open a textbook. I'm just giving my $0.02. Unions are the result of employee treatment, and if that's the destiny of UPS-Freight employees as the result of the conditions they are under, so be it. Now if UPS-friend is like FedEx Express, hah, well, good luck, hopefully your organization learned from your abysmal failures of the 1980s (huh? wha? everyone that works there believes in the company more than union rhetoric?)

I just dislike unions (or for profit corporations) forcing, coercing, and intimidating people to join (or not to join) because it's in the "employee's best interest". Employee, of course, is teamster (or for-profit corporation) for "bank account".


The village idiot, like a politician, emits noise for popularity points.


Cute. Managers getting outsourced to Asia. That sounds almost as hilarious (and short sighted) as the doomsday predictions that everything will be outsourced and all hell will break loose because of NAFTA. Kinda like how my mom told me in the early 90s that in 2005, my bank teller will be a computer (hasn't happened; demand for human contact is going up) or that business travel would decline with the .com boom and internet (it's increased). So your theory that managers will get outsourced to China based on media hype, is, union like fear mongering. I don't see what growing up has to do with this, despite being your 'pal', but I'll be sure to work on that for the degree holding ups driver.

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

 

[Bill]

Yes, product that's of higher quality yet made by employees that don't have powerful unions that allow them to make more money for their unskilled labour than someone like a Registered Nurse, police officer, or paramedic. I believe in workers rights, but not the Scandanavian vision of protectionism, which ends up hurting more people than it helps.

Since when are you an expert on the Scandanavian way of doing things. Actually, they have better health care than we do. Most of Europe has better care than us.
Money grows on trees.



I used the airline as an example of how scheduling worked out. You're mentioning scheduling, so I gave an example of an airline, and how unionized shops were a lot different when it came to scheduling than non-union shops, in that shift-bidding is a major pain in the ass, unless you're king of the hill.


They obviously are if 95% of corporations are compliant. And if they're not, your friends, labor lawyers, would be of great help.



No, I meant corporate culture. But I guess that's a foreign term to a union apologist. And if Wal-Mart was unionized, you wouldn't be saying our culture is being destroyed. After all, they would make $20/hr. Hyper-inflation helps offset cultural deterioration.

Unions are like for-profit corporations. They have good things, bad things to them. If you see unions are the knight in shining armor and the for-profit corporations as the monster (or the other way around), then you're a reactionary, and need to crack open a textbook. I'm just giving my $0.02. Unions are the result of employee treatment, and if that's the destiny of UPS-Freight employees as the result of the conditions they are under, so be it. Now if UPS-friend is like FedEx Express, hah, well, good luck, hopefully your organization learned from your abysmal failures of the 1980s (huh? wha? everyone that works there believes in the company more than union rhetoric?)

I just dislike unions (or for profit corporations) forcing, coercing, and intimidating people to join (or not to join) because it's in the "employee's best interest". Employee, of course, is teamster (or for-profit corporation) for "bank account".


The village idiot, like a politician, emits noise for popularity points.


Cute. Managers getting outsourced to Asia. That sounds almost as hilarious (and short sighted) as the doomsday predictions that everything will be outsourced and all hell will break loose because of NAFTA. Kinda like how my mom told me in the early 90s that in 2005, my bank teller will be a computer (hasn't happened; demand for human contact is going up) or that business travel would decline with the .com boom and internet (it's increased). So your theory that managers will get outsourced to China based on media hype, is, union like fear mongering. I don't see what growing up has to do with this, despite being your 'pal', but I'll be sure to work on that for the degree holding ups driver.

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

 

[wildgoose]

Hey Engineer they just don`t comprehend the fact the Management of the teamsters are slowly taking the benefits away - bit by bit and the yahoo`s are still cheering on the sidelines while funds slowly dwindle away but they just received a hefty increase in theirs !!!!!!!! So what there saying is that the reductions in accruals for all future receipients is ok ? They have a hard enough time finding people that want to work for $8-$8.50 an hour much less paying dues on top of it and not getting any respect. Teamsters negotiated the reduction in pay for partimers if you haven`t forgotten ? The company just loves the perdicament the Teamsters have put themselves in. It will be very interesting how this all plays out in the future ?

 

[satellitedriver]

By my count,
Hoser, Engineer79 and WildGoose are winning this debate with logic and facts.
A very interesting series of posts.

 

[wildgoose]

Unions were good but they are relying on the government to right their wrongs and you know better than i it won`t happen. Not with the deficit we are running for the modern day vietnam war (iraq). Local 804 is reducing all future benefits meaning your working more time for less $ !!!!!!!! No getting around it. Insurance is the next cut. I would venture to say these aren`t the last of cuts with this company/teamsters deal. 2008 contract will be a real eye opener to the hourly`s for sure. Don`t expect much even though the company has really prospered the last few years !
Cost cutting is a new word for UPS !