Who's Stupid Idea Was "Stops Per Car"?

[pretzel_man]

UPS pays you to go around and visit centers to do what? If you didn't "visit" a center one day could we pay a driver to actually deliver that day?

The problem isn't that they use Stops Per Car as a metric, the problem is the fact that they just increase the target number generated by an "uaccountable idiot sitting in a cubicle someplace" and we have to make it work.

If they were just making the adjustments to keep all the drivers over the 8 hr guarantee , NO ONE would have a problem with it.

Visiting centers is just part of the job. Your alternative is silly.

I have said before, the problem is not the SPC. It is the dispatch. I have seen many centers raise the SPC and lower the paid day, just by fixing the trace, loads, and dispatch.

P-Man
,

 

[Re-Raise]

Visiting centers is just part of the job. Your alternative is silly.

I have said before, the problem is not the SPC. It is the dispatch. I have seen many centers raise the SPC and lower the paid day, just by fixing the trace, loads, and dispatch.

P-Man
,

Sorry for being silly.

This may also be silly but here goes, how about "leaving the stops per car the same" and fixing the trace, loads, and dispatch to lower the paid day?

That won't happen because they don't care about the the drivers paid day until the grievances start, they care about meeting the stops per car.

Again as a stockholder I would love to know what your job title is?

 

[Re-Raise]

Visiting centers is just part of the job. Your alternative is silly.

I have said before, the problem is not the SPC. It is the dispatch. I have seen many centers raise the SPC and lower the paid day, just by fixing the trace, loads, and dispatch.

P-Man
,

You don't really need to put P-Man at the bottom of your posts , your name and avatar is over on the left hand side so someone can glance over to the side and see that you were the one who posted it.

Silly Re-Raise

 

[pretzel_man]

Sorry for being silly.

This may also be silly but here goes, how about "leaving the stops per car the same" and fixing the trace, loads, and dispatch to lower the paid day?

That won't happen because they don't care about the the drivers paid day until the grievances start, they care about meeting the stops per car.

Again as a stockholder I would love to know what your job title is?

Reducing miles AND paid day works fine in many centers. That is not a problem for me. The bottom line is that reducing miles requires a corresponding reduction in time somewhere. How that works out depends on the center.

I work on special projects mostly. Mostly WAD.

I said that your alternative was silly because you implied that all I do is visit centers and that if I didn't do so, another driver would be on road. To me, that is silly.

I do NOT think that your desire for a reduction in paid day is silly. I think there are valid and proper ways to do so. BTW, some drivers want a lower paid day, some do not. Depends on the center and driver.

P-Man

- I'll leave that silly signature at the bottom for now. You may be right that it is redundant. That suggestion was not silly.

 

[rod]

Reducing miles AND paid day works fine in many centers. That is not a problem for me. The bottom line is that reducing miles requires a corresponding reduction in time somewhere. How that works out depends on the center.

I work on special projects mostly. Mostly WAD.

I said that your alternative was silly because you implied that all I do is visit centers and that if I didn't do so, another driver would be on road. To me, that is silly.

I do NOT think that your desire for a reduction in paid day is silly. I think there are valid and proper ways to do so. BTW, some drivers want a lower paid day, some do not. Depends on the center and driver.

P-Man

- I'll leave that silly signature at the bottom for now. You may be right that it is redundant. That suggestion was not silly.

I have to ask-----Is that where the expression "shot your WAD" comes from?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I have to ask-----Is that where the expression "shot your WAD" comes from?

You didn't have to ask and in doing so revealed just how limited you truly are.

 

[rod]

You didn't have to ask and in doing so revealed just how limited you truly are.

I had to ask because I knew it would bug you cupcake. Do I have to post that monkey picking on the tiger video again?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I had to ask because I knew it would bug you cupcake. Do I have to post that monkey picking on the tiger video again?

P-man and re-raise were having an iintelligent conversation and then you come in with the high school crap. I would have been embarrassed to call you a co-worker.

 

[Re-Raise]

I do NOT think that your desire for a reduction in paid day is silly. I think there are valid and proper ways to do so. BTW, some drivers want a lower paid day, some do not. Depends on the center and driver.

I can only speak for my center, and your perception comes from your own experiences.

The push for increasing SPC has caused a lot of frustration from the senior drivers who have picked up an extra hour of overtime a day.

It has caused frustration for the lower seniority drivers who are now laid off.

And I hear the frustration from the customers on a daily basis who used to count on the consistency of our delivery and pick-up times.

Obviously there is a huge push to eliminate drivers and try to get more production from the drivers sent out at their limit. And that limit is not a concern for the people making the plan.

 

[cosmo1]

In all cases it was the Division Manager calling the shots. I have yet to find a division manager who said he / she was putting out the wrong number of cars because someone else said he / she had to.

Please visit our center, because we have a new DM and he/she is hellbent on becoming the number 1 DM in the company at any cost (as stated on conference calls to her/his managers and supervisors). Our SPC is rising daily.

 

[upsman39]

some rocket scientist up in IE that has never delivered a package in their career or driven a package car, thats who. Remember, the new UPS should be just UP United Parcel - No more service

 

[JustTired]

I have said before, the problem is not the SPC. It is the dispatch. I have seen many centers raise the SPC and lower the paid day, just by fixing the trace, loads, and dispatch.

P-Man
,

I can agree with that. The problem is that as you stated......there are 1300 centers and , therefore, multiples of routes in those centers. Each one has a trace, load and dispatch. Most have a way less than perfect trace, a way less than perfect loader and are being dispatched by some who are way in over their head when it comes to knowing how to make adjustments. You can't blame the dispatch sup for a bad trace, I guess....but that's where the problems start and they multiply from there. Will there ever be a perfect trace? Absolutely not!! But until those problems are addressed.....it will continue to be an exercise in frustration for everyone.

Once a decent center trace, a decent load and a decent dispatch is achieved.....then and only then should an adjustment of SPC be made. In other words.......management (along with the aid of drivers and loaders) have to do their part in making the system work. You can't just throw more work at the driver and expect a good result.

I believe that you and others in your position are doing your best to fix a poorly implemented system, but until you achieve a decent center trace.....the rest is an exercise in futility.

Bottom line.....if you want to achieve more production with less people......you have to have a system that is functional from the top down.

 

[brownmonster]

If you fix all the traces it will lower miles which will lower the planned day. The stops per car will then have to increase to get the planned day back up to where IE wants it. It's a never ending cycle.

 

[UPS Lifer]

If you fix all the traces it will lower miles which will lower the planned day. The stops per car will then have to increase to get the planned day back up to where IE wants it. It's a never ending cycle.

The inherent problem with SPC is that management teams tend to do what is easiest because of limited resources which includes time. Generally speaking, you will find the center trace to be relatively stable. Where it becomes a problem is when there has been a ton of growth and no real work done to incorporate an accurate trace. The trace is not the issue. It is the DISPATCH!

Go to the root of the problem .... COST. Drivers (employees) are the biggest expenses for the company right now. the management committee has done what they can to eliminate redundancy of management by elimination of regions - districts - divisions - centers, etc. etc. So the next step is making sure that drivers and other employees are in line with what is happening in the economy that is affecting the transportation index. SPC is a way to gage how many drivers (routes) are being dispatched.

Unfortunately, management teams are not skilled in the best and most efficient way to determine the optimum number of routes to dispatch. This is where the time and effort of the company needs to be placed.

Assuming an accurate trace. Here are other questions that need to be asked and answered. Drivers and supervisors can make these observations:

1) Not counting going to and from your route - How many drivers do you see or pass during the day? 1a) Is there justification for this? 1b) Can something be done to improve this?

2) How many drivers go to the same pick up or delivery point daily? (doesn't matter whether it is air or ground)

3) Does the center have to use air drivers - pu drivers - shuttle drivers - Extra vehicles ??

4) Is there an imbalance in pick up volume and delivery volume and stops?

I can absolutely guarantee anyone of you that there are major gains to be made in just about every area above that could meet company objectives of cost reduction which could also improve your job.

I would start with the dispatch supervisor (and back up) and determine if they understand their job thoroughly and have the skill to do it.

Then I would develop an individual center plan to attack the challenges above.

 

[JustTired]

If you fix all the traces it will lower miles which will lower the planned day. The stops per car will then have to increase to get the planned day back up to where IE wants it. It's a never ending cycle.

And what would be wrong with that? I believe that was part of the intention behind PAS/EDD. If the system was implemented properly, reduced miles and more SPC would be the ultimate outcome. Unfortunately, what it seems we are seeing is more SPC without the reduction in miles or anything else.

UPSLifer is spot-on in his assessment. He and I have both been retired for a few years. Maybe that distance from the day to day UPS life brings a clarity that's not afforded those who deal with it on a daily basis.

In the end......trying to force 10 lbs of crap into a 5 lb bag is not good business for anyone. Employee, corporate or (most importantly) customer!

 

[UPS Lifer]

And what would be wrong with that? I believe that was part of the intention behind PAS/EDD. If the system was implemented properly, reduced miles and more SPC would be the ultimate outcome. Unfortunately, what it seems we are seeing is more SPC without the reduction in miles or anything else.

UPSLifer is spot-on in his assessment. He and I have both been retired for a few years. Maybe that distance from the day to day UPS life brings a clarity that's not afforded those who deal with it on a daily basis.

In the end......trying to force 10 lbs of crap into a 5 lb bag is not good business for anyone. Employee, corporate or (most importantly) customer!

AMEN! - Sober made a point in post # 22 about fear-based vs confident-based management. I tend to think that an inexperienced management team straddles the fear-based management fence where-as a management team that can justify the cost and especially cost savings or cost recovery are a confidence-based team. You can't argue with common sense business principles. Unfortunately this can take a lot of work.

 

[brownmonster]

The inherent problem with SPC is that management teams tend to do what is easiest because of limited resources which includes time. Generally speaking, you will find the center trace to be relatively stable. Where it becomes a problem is when there has been a ton of growth and no real work done to incorporate an accurate trace. The trace is not the issue. It is the DISPATCH!

Go to the root of the problem .... COST. Drivers (employees) are the biggest expenses for the company right now. the management committee has done what they can to eliminate redundancy of management by elimination of regions - districts - divisions - centers, etc. etc. So the next step is making sure that drivers and other employees are in line with what is happening in the economy that is affecting the transportation index. SPC is a way to gage how many drivers (routes) are being dispatched.

Unfortunately, management teams are not skilled in the best and most efficient way to determine the optimum number of routes to dispatch. This is where the time and effort of the company needs to be placed.

Assuming an accurate trace. Here are other questions that need to be asked and answered. Drivers and supervisors can make these observations:

1) Not counting going to and from your route - How many drivers do you see or pass during the day? 1a) Is there justification for this? 1b) Can something be done to improve this?

2) How many drivers go to the same pick up or delivery point daily? (doesn't matter whether it is air or ground)

3) Does the center have to use air drivers - pu drivers - shuttle drivers - Extra vehicles ??

4) Is there an imbalance in pick up volume and delivery volume and stops?

I can absolutely guarantee anyone of you that there are major gains to be made in just about every area above that could meet company objectives of cost reduction which could also improve your job.

I would start with the dispatch supervisor (and back up) and determine if they understand their job thoroughly and have the skill to do it.

Then I would develop an individual center plan to attack the challenges above.

Drivers can make these observations but how many will bring up changers that will increase their individual workload? The company shoved PAS down our throats with little driver input. They can make the first move if they want things changed.

 

[hellfire]

you two dinosaurs keep keep applying your back then logic to the current goings on at ups... i too remember the old way things were done,, but thats no longer

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Well, after starting this thread and re-reading through all 11 pages of it I've come to the conclusion that just about everyone in the IE world on this site, and probably throughout UPS, are clueless to the real world and refuse to except responsibility for the amount of damage their pointless and stupid metrics have caused to many centers. Some people will never learn.

 

[Catatonic]

you two dinosaurs keep keep applying your back then logic to the current goings on at ups... i too remember the old way things were done,, but thats no longer

Are you sure?

I think this worth a thread all to itself.

It is my observation that many of the things that everyone say is unique to today were pretty much the same back then.
Not everything for sure but most.

Some things are the same:
- Numbers have always reigned supreme at UPS ... technology makes it easier to measure but numbers have always run this company.
- Hard work, quick thinking and dedication are still expected
- Safe driving - 5 Seeing Habits

Somethings have changed:
- Safety is much more important and emphasized today than it was 30 years ago. Nobody had 3 point seat belts back then nor high back seats.
- Newer buildings have less lifting over your head and placing below your knees for inside employees
- UPS is no longer your caretaker - 30 years ago UPS was very parental/patriarchal towards its employees - Union, non-Union and management - that is no longer the case
- Technology has changed many things at UPS including the job but one area, as mentioned above, is the ability to, measure almost anything.
This has created a certain waste because measurement is data and creating information requires additional effort. It seems to me that UPS now measures things that has little or no value.
That additional effort includes the input of human judgment - lacking at times, no doubt.