BBB, please go to www.teamsters .org and watch the video explaing the pension that way you don't mislead others with false info. Once yo watch the video please have the balls to come back and apologize to those you have misled.
Damn, another know it all explaing the pemsion. Please do yourself a favor and watch the video on www.teamsters.org
1 Gee, wouldn't it be great if Hoffa and Hall sent a letter out explaining all these wonderful issues, instead we have to try and decipher the secert code that it is written in. Even the people who have spoken to there local can't agree on the facts. What a nightmare, and were supposed to vote on this???? I know that our meeting with the local is coming soon, you can bet I will have alot of questions to ask.
For the 30th time go to www.teamsters.org and watch the video
Maybe you need to watch the video at WWW.teamsters.org explaining the contract. I t seems you don't understnd what you are reading. Do you know what offset means? Sit your buttdown for 44 minutes and watch it will answer all your questions.
705red
Browncafe Steward
I dont believe you have posted this enough yet, dont stop lets see if you can get upto 1000 posts by dinner!
Hey "speedbug"...remember, this video is part of the marketing scheme to sell this "agreement"...JUST READ THE CONTRACT..it reads itself...and frankly its not pretty...a video "explaining" their positive spin on a lousy contract THEY NEGOTIATED, is only that ....SPIN
B
BigBrownBlues
Guest
I apologize if I misled anyone. I am not a pension expert just a lowly driver. I was trying to make sense of the new language just as others were. I watched the entire video. The new contract has 2 types of benifit plans:#1 SERVICE PENSIONS...25 and out, 30 and out etc. and #2 ACCRUED BENIFIT PENSIONS..retire at 65 type. At age 65 in either plan CS will send you a check for the years you have earned up until January 2008. If CS has to cut benifits the new UPS/TEAMSTER plan would make up the amount cut if you took a #1 SERVICE PENSION. What is NOT clear from the video is if the new plan would make up the amount cut by CS if you took #2 ACCRUED BENIFIT normal-type pension. Please watch and listen to the video very carefully.When the pension expert is talking about the new plan making up for a shortfall in CS it is always in reference to a #1 SERVICE PENSION. Also when hall (I think) speaks about the issue it seems to always be in reference to the #1SERVICE PENSION. The whole video is very carefully worded and sections seem to be cropped out. So the question remains;if I take a regular pension (#2 ACCRUED PENSION) not a 30 and out type (#1 SERVICE PENSION) would the new fund make up the shortfall if CS cuts???? Is there a pension expert out there without an agenda? I would be inclined to vote yes if UPS is guarenteeing both types,no if not.
Red,
If you notice everytime I posted that comment it was in response to a different post. I was just trying to help out by letting people know where to find the answers to their questions or help them understand they a spreading false info. Sorry Red, please do me a favor and let me know what else bothers you . I would hate to offend you again.
Speedbug
Agitator,
I know , I did not like what I had read in the contract until I saw the video. It was hard to understand . I may be gullible but I think once one sees the video it make what is in black and white on paper seem good. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part. Hopefully it is really as good a I think it is. I really like the accrual pension. Once you see the video please do me a favor and let me know what you think. I may be misunderstanding it. I hope you ar e wrong about it just being a marketing scheme.
Speedbug
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BBB,
I think they will cover the shortfall in both pensions. We have our meeting to hear the details on the 27th. If you have your before then please let us know what you find out. I also am inclined to vote yes if the accrual pension is guaranteed. Did you think the vido was worth the time it took to watch. I'm Sorry about my words earlier. It is just getting old to keep reading posts by some that are uninformed or just out to spread false info.
Captain America
SuperDAD to the rescue
The accrual rates are to low. WAKE UP, don'y try to make an appology for a poor contract.
B
BigBrownBlues
Guest
No need to apologize. I think most of us are just trying to make an informed decision. UPS and the union leadership have their own reasons for trying to sell the contract. The TDUers and others have their reasons for trying to kill it. Thank you for posting the link to the video. It does have some good info, but comming from the teamsters leadership it will try to emphisize only the positive aspects. You have to be very careful watching it. I hope you are right that UPS will cover the possible shortfall in both types of pension benifit plans. The video seems to try to give that impression without actually saying both types will be covered by the new plan. Sometimes what they don't say is the more important than what they do. It's clear 25 and out /30 and out type pensions will be saved if CS falters but I'm not convinced by the video regular accrual pensions will. I know this is confusing to alot of UPSers but we owe it to the guys who are close to retirement yo get the facts strait. I don't think we can count on UPS or the Teamsters or TDU for complete unbiased information. If you watch the video listen how carefull he is when talking about the new plan assuming CS's liability to always qualify his statements by saying "in a 30 and out type pension" or something to that effect.
gandydancer
Well-Known Member
I'm not in CS, so there's nothing in the contract for me except a substandard wage increase and givebacks. Worst part is UPS not contributing a health benefit for pt new hires for a year. On average UPS now pays more for that group than they consume, and that subsidizes the higher than average costs of the benefits for the rest of us. So if we pass the new contract our health benefits will have to be cut to compensate.
I think you are being too fair to call it spin. I think they didn't explain the real contract language because they can't. They can say my Viagra will be paid for now, but if it's not in the contract I'm not counting on it.
GuyinBrown
Blah
Buster, please see my post under "CS pension language cleared up" ( I don't know how to link to that post or I would ). I think that you've misinterpreted some of the language just as I did. Listening closely to what the pension expert said helped clear something up for me and I tried my best to explain the misunderstanding.
GuyinBrown I am very troubled by this hole situation of what they say and what the contract reads. We have contract meetings this week. I can't wait to see how the can explain the language in the contact. We went on a one day strike several years ago (an illegal strike I thought was wrong) over what was said in negotiations and changed later (overweights). They say UPS will make up the CS shortfall, but the contracts states they won't. I'm OK with the amount of the raises and being split, (we make good money) but there are several other articles that in my opinion are very bad.
GuyinBrown
Blah
Did you read the post I directed you to? What the union is saying and what the contract says are actually the same thing... I don't know how to link directly to the new topic I started last night, so I'll copy the entire thing below. My apologies to anyone it upsets for the duplicate information in 2 threads...
I just watched the video and I THINK I understand why we think the union is telling us something different than what we're reading....
"The UPS/IBT Plan will recognize full-time service in the CS Plan for determining eligibility for the benefits in this section and will offset at Normal Retirement Age the benefits accrued from the CS Plan commencing at Normal Retirement Age."
"If the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as permitted or required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be included in this offset."
This last part seems to say that if the benefit is reduced, UPS is not obligated to pay the difference, which is why we seem to think we're getting 2 different stories. However, after listening to the video, I think the problem is that we're reading this backwards. I know when I read it, I took "offset" to mean the portion that UPS pays to make up the difference. According to the video, that is INCORRECT. The video states that UPS is assuming 100% of your pension liability until age 65. That is why you would get one single check for your pension payment. At age 65, Central States begins to pay its portion of your pension liability. That is why at age 65, you would begin to get 2 checks - one from UPS, and a second from CS. This is known as an offset. "If the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as permitted or required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be included in this offset."
Now, knowing that we've been reading this backwards, and the offset is not UPS's portion but rather Central States, you can now take this language to mean that what the union is saying is not only correct, but also spelled out in black and white, right in the contract. If the offset is the CS portion, it actually means that if CS reduces it's payment, UPS is obligated to make up the difference because the reduction shall not be included in this offset.
It was a long day and it's pretty late for me, so I apologize if my explanation is getting more muddled as I ramble on. But I do recommend watching the video and really paying attention to what the pension expert is saying. Specifically, he starts talking about this "offset" stuff around the 30 minute mark. I wanted to get this out while it was fresh in my head, I'll try to get some sleep and clear my thoughts up tomorrow. Maybe one of you night owls that watched the video with a clearer head can pick up where I left off.
Damok
Well-Known Member
FDA is asking for new warnings on Viagra and similar products - may cause full or partial temporary hearing loss... sorry fellas
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