Goldilocks
Well-Known Member
I will only ship with Fedex ground. They do a great job!!!
11:56
- Thread starter thedownhillEXPRESS
- Start date
I will only ship with Fedex ground. They do a great job!!!
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Aren't they just the best?!!! I just hurled.
Then shouldn't this be in the "sick day" thread?
packageguy
Well-Known Member
Good luck guys, i'll be watching ........
texan
Well-Known Member
DorkHead
Well-Known Member
Really? I`m curious. Where will UPS divert their air volume, which is their second most profitable service to??
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
UPS isn't going to divert anything, anywhere...
FedEx Ground is on track to "divert" current UPS volume into ITS system. The more and more volume Ground gobbles up - the less and less capablity the IBT will have to negotiate contracts that maintain the disparity in compensation between UPS and Ground drivers.
UPS operates in the same marketplace as FedEx - and as Ground continues to grow with its business model (at the expense of UPS and therefore the unionized employees of UPS) the pressure will steadily increase on UPS to lower compensation offered to IBT members in order to keep UPS competitive (profits for their shareholders).
This is what the overwhelming majority of UPSers don't get - FedEx Ground may be a competitor to UPS, but the BUSINESS MODEL of Ground - as currently exists - is an even greater threat to the union members of UPS. UPS simply won't be able to offer the compensation packages they currently do AND compete against Ground in the future. Therefore, the compensation offered will initially stagnate, then UPS will have no choice but to rollback compensation in order to maintain its margin. It will be a race to the bottom, and UPSers won't like it one bit.
If the IBT thinks a strike would solve the problem - they would be very wrong. A strike would merely push MORE volume into Ground, making the situation even worse for UPSers.
The only solution for IBT members in UPS, is to get the IBT and other labor organizations to press for the business model of Ground to be somehow declared an "unfair trade practice" (inappropriate use of the independent contractor labor laws), and make the Ground drivers actual employees of FedEx. The Ground drivers would then organize in a heartbeat, their compensation level would increase, and the disparity between UPS and Ground cost structures would disappear.
Until and unless that happens, you (as a UPSer) can forget about increases in your compensation, and will be looking at increasing CONCESSIONS over the years, to keep UPS profitable while trying to compete against the business model of Ground.
The IBT has demonstrated a HIGH reluctance to get Express organized - but they have a very real stake in getting the Ground business model declared in violation of labor law (with whatever means available). Failure to do so, will only result in a race to the bottom in compensation offered for both UPS and Ground, and the unionized employees of UPS will have the most to lose in this race.
This is why UPSers have a VERY REAL stake in getting FedEx organized - their own compensation will be at risk in the very near term should FedEx remain non-union and the Ground business model continued unchecked.
thedownhillEXPRESS
Well-Known Member
Teamsters pay attention
It took years for Express employees to see this come to fruition.
Now its here.
Ground is an American based outsourcing monster and it is going to eat you (unless you act)
Fight to show the world what FEDEX is doing to american jobs.
I know the union aint what it used to be, but this has to be the fight for your life, ours is over....
It took years for Express employees to see this come to fruition.
Now its here.
Ground is an American based outsourcing monster and it is going to eat you (unless you act)
Fight to show the world what FEDEX is doing to american jobs.
I know the union aint what it used to be, but this has to be the fight for your life, ours is over....
thedownhillEXPRESS
Well-Known Member
Make some noise in Kansas IBT, thats a big case to shine the light on..
Seventh Circuit Seeks Kansas Court Ruling On Employee Status of FedEx Ground Drivers | Bloomberg BNA
Seventh Circuit Seeks Kansas Court Ruling On Employee Status of FedEx Ground Drivers | Bloomberg BNA
DorkHead
Well-Known Member
Concerning ground volume, I could not agree more. The scenario you describe is very plausible. I`m not to sure about your timetable of events due to the questions like will FedEx ground be able to absorb the volume without alienating the service to Business customers? Will the Fedex contractors and the company itself add enough routes to handle the volume without disrupting the service to businesses? With us, I know in my area , my Bus. customers know exactly when I will be there, +/- 15 minutes. Now, will Businesses be satisfied with later deliveries or sub-standard service for less money? Some will and some won`t.
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
It isn't just plausible, it IS the business plan of Ground for the next 10-15 years. Fred S literally plans on eating your lunch. Fred isn't just gunning for the Express Couriers anymore, he's got UPS lined up in his sights.
Yes... Ground is expanding rapidly. bbsam can attest to just how rapidly Ground is expanding. He gave a heads-up reagarding a meeting that is supposed to be taking place this Thursday. No indication as to what the topic will be, but I have a couple of guesses.
Again, bbsam can comment.... short answer will be yes.
They may complain. But when their shipping costs fall by between 10 and 20%, they won't complain too much.
Everyone likes to fall back on "great service" for a defense against "low cost" providers. There is a bit of merit to that argument - but in the current environment, low cost is winning out over great service time and time again. Look at the airlines, big box retailers, cell phone providers, FedEx Ground... you name it. Low cost is winning out over great service an overwhelming majority of the time. FedEx is even DOWNSIZING Express right now - they are calling it "rightsizing", all out of the euphemism machine of media relations. The "great service" company is downsizing right now, not expanding. The low cost "arm" of FedEx is doing all of the expanding right now.
Most of the wage employees of Express are in complete denial about what is happening in Express right now (and what is lined up for them in the next couple of years). "Head in the sand" doesn't even begin to describe the situation among the wage employees of Express right now.
A substantial portion of Express volume is going to be shifted over to Ground (the "low cost" alternative) - all to improve margins. Will the move "stick" - I think so. The actual people receiving the volume may complain, but when the "bean counters" of the companies come back with, "We're paying 20% less than we were before, the minor issues are well worth the savings" - that will be the end of the argument in a cost control oriented world.
Fred S is shaping up to be for package shipping, what Sam Walton was for consumer item retailing. I can't stress this enough. Think of retailing back 30 years ago (for those old enough to remember), and look at today. Look back at how retailing was done in the 50's and 60's, and look at today. Complete and radical transformation of methods of getting goods and services into the hands of consumers. A radical transformation is underway right now in how packages and freight are moved from point to point. The consumers will lose a bit of service but will gain lower cost of moving their volume. The employees of the shipping companies (primarily the wage employees) are going to get tossed under the bus in this transformative environment.
UPS won't be immune to this change. UPS has tried to ignore what has been happening in FedEx for a few years now. In the next few years, UPS simply won't be able to keep on ignoring what is happening. When their market share keeps on getting poached by Fred and company, they will have to take steps to maintain their margins. The only way to do that (with a unionized workforce), is to gain concession after concession from that workforce to maintain profits for the company (which they will do - TRUST me). The other method is to get FedEx's business model to be declared to be illegal somehow, and remove the cost advantage FedEx possesses over UPS (UPS tried it back in 2009 with their support of having the RLA status removed from Express and lobbying to get litigation and legislation that would stop the Ground business model). Didn't work. Since method #2 didn't work, that leaves getting increasing concessions out of the wage employees of UPS. You don't think for a minute that the executive management is going to slash their compensation to the bone, do you?
Simply put, I concur with R1a's assessment of the FDX strategy. I am simply astounded at how many people at Express and UPS simply refuse to face what has been happening for a decade. I remember picking up at an Express station about a year after RPS was purchased the day quarterly reports came out. The op's manager on duty saw it plain as day and commented that Ground had hit unbelievable numbers. It was inevitable to pursue this course. Improve service, keep costs low, reinvest the profits into the network. Comment all you like about, "I saw a Ground driver with tattoos and ...blah, blah, blah..." but the fact remains that we are driven on improvement and we are driven for growth. I don't think we have ever made it a secret that we intend to take and keep market share. What does it matter to us if we canibalize Express? Not like we're losing any love there.
As to the later deliveries, I wonder how much that really comes into play for customers. I have learned alot of routes for Ground and noticed often that when I was making deliveries at 13:00 to 14:30, many times I'd be delivering where UPS was also delivering. So when UPS was moving into pickups at 15:00, I was still delivering, but the number of business deliveries made after that time wasn't great.
So in short, can Ground really pull off such an ambitious strategy with it's contractor/ISP model? I believe we intend to and judging from past challenges, successes, and failures, I see no reason why we can't. The two-fold question for others is what does that mean to their own business and is there anything they can do to change the trajectory of the competition?
As to the later deliveries, I wonder how much that really comes into play for customers. I have learned alot of routes for Ground and noticed often that when I was making deliveries at 13:00 to 14:30, many times I'd be delivering where UPS was also delivering. So when UPS was moving into pickups at 15:00, I was still delivering, but the number of business deliveries made after that time wasn't great.
So in short, can Ground really pull off such an ambitious strategy with it's contractor/ISP model? I believe we intend to and judging from past challenges, successes, and failures, I see no reason why we can't. The two-fold question for others is what does that mean to their own business and is there anything they can do to change the trajectory of the competition?
Cactus
Just telling it like it is
Well I see it's all in the bag for Ground with nothing but fields of clover on the horizon. By the way, I thought you would've had that 28% spike in volume by now seeing that July is here and gone and August is half over with. I delivered plenty of Express Saver today. What's taking you guys so long?
Is it possible that the IBT saw all this coming down the pike and knew backing Express was a losing proposition? That the downscaling of Express was inevitable and since there was no way to unionize Ground on a large scale it just wasn't worth the effort and risk to try to unionize Express? That we've been harping for a union in vain because no one was ever going to step up for us(besides Oberstar, God Bless Him)?
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
How about... God helps those who help themselves....
The IBT is a business just like any other. They are in the business of organizing labor. When a losing proposition is seen, do you really expect them to put themselves out of business on a "venture" that is doomed to failure before it even starts (attempting to organize Express from the outside)?
Yes, the IBT knew Express was a "losing proposition" as long as the RLA was in place. Is that their fault or yours - yes, yours. What did you do as an Express employee to advance the cause of organized labor. Did you seriously expect that you could sit back, take no risks yourself and have a negotiated union contract covering your job delivered to you free of charge?
The RLA makes it damn difficult for a "top down" organization effort - but it doesn't prevent a bottom up (grass roots) organization effort from occurring. Even now, even NOW, there still isn't a grass roots organization effort going on within Express that is worth mentioning. There is plenty of discontent, there is a lot of pissing and moaning going on, but there isn't anything that is really causing Fred and company any concern.
No union is going to "come to the rescue" of the Express employees anytime in the future. No organizaton is going to "step up for the Express wage employee" - isn't going to happen. Cold hard truth - time to accept that and start looking at what other alternatives are left.
Now.... what are the Express employees going to do about that?
The colossus of FedEx is aligned against ALL of those who work for it in exchange for a wage. FedEx has gone to great measures to protect itself as much as possible from having its business plan averted by an organized wage workforce. You've realized that there isn't much you can do personally to get out, and have made the decision to ride it out for as long as you can - a rational decision based upon your personal circumstances.
What about those in their 20s and 30s? What is in store for them should they decide to not get out? The logical alternatives are few (I remember coming up with three...).
To continue with that analogy of the tsunami...
The Express wage employees are having a day at the beach in Hilo - living it up thinking nothing will ever change. A long time ago, a rather significant earthquake occurred off the coast of Alaska and a wave was generated that is traveling towards Hawaii. Some on the island received advanced notice that a tsunami will occur due to that earthquake which happened thousands of miles away form the beach on Hilo. Most down on the beach refuse to believe that there is any danger - they are having such a wonderful time and can sense nothing out of the ordinary. The sun is out, the breeze is cool and the KoolAid is so refreshing...
Those with the advance knowledge have decided to head for higher ground. Others are looking for another beach on the south side of the island that is out of the way of the forewarned wave. Most are still at the beach in Hilo.
A significant time after that earthquake in Alaska, the beach goers in Hilo are noticing the water starting to receed below the low tide mark - strange, they've never seen that before. Most get curious, wanting to venture out to the area that was until recently, under a few feet of water. There are a few who recognize what is indeed happening and decide to get to a vehicle as fast as they can and head inland. The vendor selling the KoolAid is telling everyone, "All is well, nothing to fear" - he is more concerned for his sales of KoolAid than any concern for the beachgoers.
This is the point where the Express employees are right now - the advance warning has been given, the leading edge of the wave is causing the water line to pull back, and a few recognize that something bad is about to happen and are frantically making their way inland. Do you expect those who got out early, to hire a helicopter - (metaphor for IBT) in anticipation of what is about to happen, to rescue all those who are at this moment walking out into the area left dry by the receeding water line?
Helicopters are damn expensive to hire, especially on short notice. In addition, when tsunamis strike, they are usually involved in protecting their own "clientele" (existing union members).
Whether or not the beachgoers realize that they are in mortal danger before it is too late is hard to tell. History and human nature predicts that most won't have a clue till they look up at the horizon and see an ever growing wall of water rapidly approaching - too late at that point.
The signs of tsunami are all around the employees of Express - they started appearing about 4 years ago, and in the past year, have become undeniable. Most still choose to stick their head in the sand (at the beach...), thinking nothing bad has ever happened at the beach, so why think it will now?
Whether the employees start to realize there is danger on the horizon and band together to help themselves - or choose to continue to enjoy their day at the beach - is up them. I know what is going to happen, and it isn't going to be pretty. For those who choose to heed the warning signs, they may make it out without too many bumps and bruises. For the rest, I hope they get real lucky and have a life vest on - even then, they'll probably get their head smashed into the ground and debris before it is all over.
God helps those who help themselves... If I was still at the beach, I wouldn't be looking skyward for a helicopter to save me at the last moment - I would be making my way off the beach as rapidly as possible.
You sound bitter. Or are you still in denial?
You give the average FedEx employee way too much credit. FedEx is what they do for income. Most are so wrapped up in their personal lives they just assume the income will just keep coming. Very few are looking around, noticing a wall of water in the distance, and saying Oh, crap! Most not only don't have a clue about starting a grassroots organizing effort, they don't even realize they need a union or that it's an option. Want a union? Put all employees in a few very large buildings and watch the word spread like wildfire. But since we're divided into hundreds of small groups for many the info about the company is the carefully composed pablum that the company distributes. It's not that their head is in the sand about an impending tsunami, it's that they never go to the beach. That's why this situation could be explosive because there will be a lot of men with families to support, bills to pay, who'll be totally taken off guard by this. When you've been a loyal, hard working, faithful employee for most of your adult life the sheer magnitude of the betrayal, the deviousness of it, the cruelty of it, will probably enrage quite a few. Especially when they realize the company is doing it when there are few options for decent employment available.
Cactus
Just telling it like it is
You didn't answer my question. If I sound bitter at least I have a reason. Yeah I know things at Express are going down the crapper but all I've been hearing from you is how great Ground is, we're gonna do this and we're gonna do that blah, blah, blah. Ground hasn't even inheirited one piece of Express Saver freight yet but you've already got out the champagne and have been toasting away in happy celebration. Get the volume first, then JUST DO IT!
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