5G begins this Weds.

Baba gounj

Strength through joy
Medevac helicopter operators were especially hard hit by more than 1400 NOTAMs issued by the FAA on Thursday restricting operations that require the use of radar altimeters. Under FAA regs, not only do commercial helicopters require a radar altimeter, it must be working before the pilots can use night vision goggles to help them land at night. Most medevac pilots use goggles when landing and taking off on the roads, parking lots and open fields that they often use for such flights and also at hospital helipads. The exemption allows them to use the goggles in areas covered by the NOTAMs as long as they can be warned of obstructions through radio contact with people on the ground or they can do a high-altitude check of the landing area using a moveable searchlight if ground personnel aren’t available.
{ A NOTAM is a notice containing information essential to personnel concerned with flight operations but not known far enough in advance to be publicized by other means. }

Major airline CEOs warn of 'catastrophic' aviation crisis when delayed 5G roll out finally begins Wednesday: FAA warns 100,000 passengers could face delays or cancelations and some planes could be grounded PERMANENTLY​

  • The CEOS of some of America's largest airlines wrote to federal government officials warning that a new 5G service could cause disruptions
  • In the letter to federal officials, the CEOs wrote that when AT&T and Verizon's new service goes live on Wednesday it could affect commerce
  • The FAA has warned that potential interference could affect sensitive airplane instruments such as altimeters and impact on low-visibility operations
  • 5G could also affect airplane's safety features
 

MyTripisCut

Never bought my own handtruck
Medevac helicopter operators were especially hard hit by more than 1400 NOTAMs issued by the FAA on Thursday restricting operations that require the use of radar altimeters. Under FAA regs, not only do commercial helicopters require a radar altimeter, it must be working before the pilots can use night vision goggles to help them land at night. Most medevac pilots use goggles when landing and taking off on the roads, parking lots and open fields that they often use for such flights and also at hospital helipads. The exemption allows them to use the goggles in areas covered by the NOTAMs as long as they can be warned of obstructions through radio contact with people on the ground or they can do a high-altitude check of the landing area using a moveable searchlight if ground personnel aren’t available.
{ A NOTAM is a notice containing information essential to personnel concerned with flight operations but not known far enough in advance to be publicized by other means. }

Major airline CEOs warn of 'catastrophic' aviation crisis when delayed 5G roll out finally begins Wednesday: FAA warns 100,000 passengers could face delays or cancelations and some planes could be grounded PERMANENTLY​

  • The CEOS of some of America's largest airlines wrote to federal government officials warning that a new 5G service could cause disruptions
  • In the letter to federal officials, the CEOs wrote that when AT&T and Verizon's new service goes live on Wednesday it could affect commerce
  • The FAA has warned that potential interference could affect sensitive airplane instruments such as altimeters and impact on low-visibility operations
  • 5G could also affect airplane's safety features
At least we’ll be able to find divisive news via partisan social media platforms quicker than ever.
 

Lineandinitial

Legio patria nostra
{ A NOTAM is a notice containing information essential to personnel concerned with flight operations but not known far enough in advance to be publicized by other means. }
NOTAM (pronounced: no tum) is a Notice to Air Mission

Radio Altimeters operate on C-band frequencies, as do cell phones, Satellites, etc and the fear is interference by telecom agencies buying up the frequencies from the FCC and they are not governed, or care about the FAA. There's a bunch of other issues too
 
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trickpony1

Well-Known Member
My wife and I live in a suburb of a big city.
We were driving around, running the usual errands, when we couldn't help but notice the sudden installation of objects about the size of a loaf of bread, black in color, mounted on the wood powerline poles approx. eight feet off the ground.

Sometimes there was one on every other pole and sometimes three poles in a row would have them.

We think (which means we could be wrong) these are 5G attenna/boosters.

Does anyone know?

Save the "tinfoil hat" comments.

Altruistic helping.
 

UnionStrong

Doesn’t play well with others…
My wife and I live in a suburb of a big city.
We were driving around, running the usual errands, when we couldn't help but notice the sudden installation of objects about the size of a loaf of bread, black in color, mounted on the wood powerline poles approx. eight feet off the ground.

Sometimes there was one on every other pole and sometimes three poles in a row would have them.

We think (which means we could be wrong) these are 5G attenna/boosters.

Does anyone know?

Save the "tinfoil hat" comments.

Altruistic helping.
Probably have something to do with it. They need a lot more than the old 4G. We’re screwed
 

trickpony1

Well-Known Member
Probably have something to do with it. They need a lot more than the old 4G. We’re screwed
.....,so what happens when some unsuspecting soul who has had 2, 3, 4, 5 covid shots runs this gauntlet of high frequency boost transmitters with increased levels of graphene oxide (google it), a metallic substance, rampaging through his system?

Definition of denial helping.
 

Poop Head

Judge me.
My wife and I live in a suburb of a big city.
We were driving around, running the usual errands, when we couldn't help but notice the sudden installation of objects about the size of a loaf of bread, black in color, mounted on the wood powerline poles approx. eight feet off the ground.

Sometimes there was one on every other pole and sometimes three poles in a row would have them.

We think (which means we could be wrong) these are 5G attenna/boosters.

Does anyone know?

Save the "tinfoil hat" comments.

Altruistic helping.
I think youre right about the small antennas. Ive seen them ontop of oldschool looking lampposts.

Im guessing the cell companies and the govt are gonna use them to track device locations more accurately.
 

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
Medevac helicopter operators were especially hard hit by more than 1400 NOTAMs issued by the FAA on Thursday restricting operations that require the use of radar altimeters. Under FAA regs, not only do commercial helicopters require a radar altimeter, it must be working before the pilots can use night vision goggles to help them land at night. Most medevac pilots use goggles when landing and taking off on the roads, parking lots and open fields that they often use for such flights and also at hospital helipads. The exemption allows them to use the goggles in areas covered by the NOTAMs as long as they can be warned of obstructions through radio contact with people on the ground or they can do a high-altitude check of the landing area using a moveable searchlight if ground personnel aren’t available.
{ A NOTAM is a notice containing information essential to personnel concerned with flight operations but not known far enough in advance to be publicized by other means. }

Major airline CEOs warn of 'catastrophic' aviation crisis when delayed 5G roll out finally begins Wednesday: FAA warns 100,000 passengers could face delays or cancelations and some planes could be grounded PERMANENTLY​

  • The CEOS of some of America's largest airlines wrote to federal government officials warning that a new 5G service could cause disruptions
  • In the letter to federal officials, the CEOs wrote that when AT&T and Verizon's new service goes live on Wednesday it could affect commerce
  • The FAA has warned that potential interference could affect sensitive airplane instruments such as altimeters and impact on low-visibility operations
  • 5G could also affect airplane's safety features
Notice though.....

It's still going forward......

EVERYONE has known this was coming....for years.....

Medivac/Air Ambulance(even in airplanes) has one of the worst safety records along with crop dusting. Why? Get there itis. The very same that plagues UPS. Think about accidents in bad weather.....the helicopters have to fly in the same weather. Air ambulances have to get patients there quickly....no matter what.

How did we get here?

Well, this all revolves around radar altimeters.....they are expensive. There isn't an economical substitute....lasers maybe....

Radar altimeters have been around for decades. Very proven fact. Autoland features on aircraft absolutely must have them.

UPS actually helped design, test and implement low visibility/low ceiling landing systems and actually marketed and sold navigators to the public. We were involved in the defunct microwave landing system idea.

Except 5G uses the bandwidth very close to what radar altimeters use. This is the rub. Possible interference....

Now, The FCC/FAA whoever knew all of this.....yet here we are.
 

Box Ox

Well-Known Member
Except 5G uses the bandwidth very close to what radar altimeters use. This is the rub. Possible interference....

The engineers I've seen post about this tonight have basically all said that the 200MHz "guard band" is more than sufficient for ensuring the new 5G and altimeter bands never overlap.

I think this is mainly just an overabundance of caution thing.


"In the US, this is 3.7GHz to 3.98GHz, which sits just a little higher than the 3.4GHz to 3.8GHz 5G band in Europe, and thus bumps up slightly closer to the 4.2GHz to 4.4GHz altimeter band (which is the same in both places)."
 

UnionStrong

Doesn’t play well with others…
The engineers I've seen post about this tonight have basically all said that the 200MHz "guard band" is more than sufficient for ensuring the new 5G and altimeter bands never overlap.

I think this is mainly just an overabundance of caution thing.


"In the US, this is 3.7GHz to 3.98GHz, which sits just a little higher than the 3.4GHz to 3.8GHz 5G band in Europe, and thus bumps up slightly closer to the 4.2GHz to 4.4GHz altimeter band (which is the same in both places)."
Hope you’re right
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
The engineers I've seen post about this tonight have basically all said that the 200MHz "guard band" is more than sufficient for ensuring the new 5G and altimeter bands never overlap.

I think this is mainly just an overabundance of caution thing.


"In the US, this is 3.7GHz to 3.98GHz, which sits just a little higher than the 3.4GHz to 3.8GHz 5G band in Europe, and thus bumps up slightly closer to the 4.2GHz to 4.4GHz altimeter band (which is the same in both places)."
Do they not test this before starting it?
 

Box Ox

Well-Known Member
Do they not test this before starting it?

No idea. Think the carriers are mad because they spent a lot of money buying the rights to the necessary frequencies from the government and the FAA and FCC have had quite a while to figure this thing out.


"In the US the C-band auction drew over $80B in total bids, as expected Verizon and AT&T dominated with a combined total of approximately $68B, Verizon alone an estimated $53 B when factoring in all the spectrum clearing and ancillary costs. T-mobile only spent around $9B, a validation of its Sprint acquisition which included a large swath of nationwide spectrum in the 2.5GHz band (band 41)."
 

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
Do they not test this before starting it?
Yes they did....and some interference was found....thus the concern.

Now, from what I read.....words like most likely, probably, not likely....maybe....could.

Could something happen......maybe.

Thing is.....radar altimeters start working around 2500 ft, its that few last hundred feet for low viz/low cloud ceilings that is absolutely critical....you don't want interference....at all then. They've basically been bullet-proof for decades...
 

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
No idea. Think the carriers are mad because they spent a lot of money buying the rights to the necessary frequencies from the government and the FAA and FCC have had quite a while to figure this thing out.


"In the US the C-band auction drew over $80B in total bids, as expected Verizon and AT&T dominated with a combined total of approximately $68B, Verizon alone an estimated $53 B when factoring in all the spectrum clearing and ancillary costs. T-mobile only spent around $9B, a validation of its Sprint acquisition which included a large swath of nationwide spectrum in the 2.5GHz band (band 41)."
No man....

The carriers(airlines/everyone who flies) all have radar altimeters. They are expensive$$$$$$$. With no real alternative that they don't want to have to buy! What they have works and is proven. They don't want to/shouldn't have to do anything.

RA have been around for decades....5G no. See? Why'd the airlines have to take it up the chute?
 
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