AGFS Panic Call

Testicular Fortitude

Well-Known Member
I have a couple serious question. If Fedex becomes covered by NLRA, why would Fedex continue to use employees and not move to a contractor model like ground where unionization is more difficult? Secondly, if Fedex were to become members of the Teamsters, and Fedex went on strike, would UPS workers strike also? Or does Teamster loyalty end at the company door?
The so called Independent Contractor model is a sham.It is now in a MDL[Multi District Litigation] basically a giant class action lawsuit.Fedex Ground and Fedex Home delivery drivers are not independent contractors but employees of Fedex.Once these drivers win their lawsuit the floodgates will open.The monetary compensation to them will be in the hundreds of millions.Every state will be filing charges against Fedex to recoup all the unpaid taxes due to them.The IRS is still checking to see if the Fedex Corporation is in violation of Federal and State tax laws.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
Since the topic of Ground drivers and honoring other companies strike isn't on topic with this thread, I'll start another to FULLY discuss the contractor issue.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
The so called Independent Contractor model is a sham.It is now in a MDL[Multi District Litigation] basically a giant class action lawsuit.Fedex Ground and Fedex Home delivery drivers are not independent contractors but employees of Fedex.Once these drivers win their lawsuit the floodgates will open.The monetary compensation to them will be in the hundreds of millions.Every state will be filing charges against Fedex to recoup all the unpaid taxes due to them.The IRS is still checking to see if the Fedex Corporation is in violation of Federal and State tax laws.
i have heard this sillyness before. which unpaid taxes are you talking about because i am constantly paying taxes for myself and my drivers and occasionally pay penalties and interest. if there are taxes that i am pay that i need not pay, please let me know so that i can instead apply that money to a 2010 chevy camaro (black, please, with the biggest baddest v-8 monster motor available...and throw a supercharger on it while you're at it)
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
Here is a link to an excellent article written by a disinterested party regarding the FedEx attempt to call the possibility of getting its RLA status revoked a "UPS Bailout"

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2009/06/12/play-fair-fedex.aspx


Fred's continuing tunnel vision regarding the possibility of Express employees unionizing has blinded him to the consequences of his dirty trick; he's really ticked off about 400,000 UPS employees. Now he's added another 400,000 potential opinions wanting to have the RLA exemption pulled. I don't think in his wildest nightmares he'd imagine that his action would result in adding so much support for his employees to have the choice to unionize. This is supposed to be the shrewd business leader that can foresee the consequences of every deliberate action he takes.

If he didn't foresee the consequences of his dirty trick, he's not on his game. Possibly reacting to events in a paranoid manner...

It also appears that UPS is fighting back by offering current FedEx customers a large discount on rates if they switch (heard a 24% discount to current UPS rates). Looks like our trucks are going to be getting a little lighter in the coming months. Bravo Fred, you've pulled another Kinko's debacle when I thought you couldn't top yourself.

FDX shareholders, it is time to start getting heard. This guy would rather play scorched earth with FedEx, than act in a responsible manner with his employees and customers.
 

SmithBarney

Well-Known Member
We had our state of the company meeting... my favorite question after they got done telling us that:

Lates are reduced, Injuries are reduced, accidents are reduced... (probably cause volume is at "mid-90's levels")

They tell us that the "employee loyalty survey" scored higher than ever..

Someone asked: "So if the company is full of so many happy employees... why are they so worried about the Union?..."

The response... "this is Fred's popcorn stand.. and Fred does what Fred wants"

That pretty much summed it up for me.. senior managers are disgruntled as well.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
The frontline management was stuffed under the bus by Fred, so they are even more ticked off than the hourly employees. They made their deal with Fred, and Fred returned the favor last year by gutting their pension, cutting their pay and eliminating their bonuses.

This is why I stated that many if not most salaried employees are hopeing that the RLA exemption gets pulled. They won't immediately see the benefits, but Fred will eventually have to return the full pension to the salaried employees too (assuming the unionized employees get the pension back).

If they loyalty survey was such a success for FedEx... Why was it administered in the first place? (they knew there were problems). Why was the SFA delayed for so long? (they knew that were problems indicated on the Loyalty Survey). Why did Fred resort to the "brown bailout" website if the SFA indicated things were just peachy? (because FedEx got slaughtered on the SFA this time).

Most frontlline managers that are clear thinking, rational individuals are just as ticked off as their hourly employees, if not more. They don't have the option to restart careers without taking a major hit. As part of their job, they have to place a good face on everything that is going on. I don't have any sympathy for them, since they already chose sides in this conflict, but I do understand their situation (and communicate with many to get my information). If they could somehow sign a "managerial union card", they'd do it right now.
 

TechGrrl

Space Cadet
I have a couple serious question. If Fedex becomes covered by NLRA, why would Fedex continue to use employees and not move to a contractor model like ground where unionization is more difficult? Secondly, if Fedex were to become members of the Teamsters, and Fedex went on strike, would UPS workers strike also? Or does Teamster loyalty end at the company door?

Don't think it would be possible to convert the Express employee business model to contractors easily, but other postings by current FedEx employees seem to indicate Fred has a long term plan to outsource express volume to his Ground division...and undercut his Express employees even further.

As far as UPS employees striking if FedEx employees strike, what logic are you using? A strike is a collective action by employees engaged in negotiating a deal with their employer. The strike is a withholding of labor to emphasize the the employees are equals in the negotiations. Why in the name of all that is rational would UPS employees strike, since they (currently) have no beef with THEIR employer? A FedEx strike is an internal affair, UPS employees have no dog in that hunt. They would certainly support their union brothers and sisters in the effort, but engaging in a strike against their own employer in that context would be senseless.

They would probably not cross a picket line to deliver any packages to FedEx sites though!
 

TechGrrl

Space Cadet
Here is a link to an excellent article written by a disinterested party regarding the FedEx attempt to call the possibility of getting its RLA status revoked a "UPS Bailout"

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2009/06/12/play-fair-fedex.aspx


Fred's continuing tunnel vision regarding the possibility of Express employees unionizing has blinded him to the consequences of his dirty trick; he's really ticked off about 400,000 UPS employees. Now he's added another 400,000 potential opinions wanting to have the RLA exemption pulled. I don't think in his wildest nightmares he'd imagine that his action would result in adding so much support for his employees to have the choice to unionize. This is supposed to be the shrewd business leader that can foresee the consequences of every deliberate action he takes.

If he didn't foresee the consequences of his dirty trick, he's not on his game. Possibly reacting to events in a paranoid manner...

It also appears that UPS is fighting back by offering current FedEx customers a large discount on rates if they switch (heard a 24% discount to current UPS rates). Looks like our trucks are going to be getting a little lighter in the coming months. Bravo Fred, you've pulled another Kinko's debacle when I thought you couldn't top yourself.

FDX shareholders, it is time to start getting heard. This guy would rather play scorched earth with FedEx, than act in a responsible manner with his employees and customers.

Not just the current employees, but all the retirees, as well. I got an email from retiree relations stating that the Corporate office in Atlanta had been flooded with calls, emails, etc. from so many people that they were sending out this email (which they had stopped doing in favor of a web site) to point folks to the web site for feedback.

UPS is in good financial shape, even in a down economy. Good cash flow, large piggy bank. The LAST thing anyone wants to do is start off a full scale price war, and in the past, we have both avoided that, but it looks like Fred finally screwed the pooch (Marine aviator term) and woke the sleeping giant. If he wants to play scorched earth, UPS has deeper pockets.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Don't think it would be possible to convert the Express employee business model to contractors easily, but other postings by current FedEx employees seem to indicate Fred has a long term plan to outsource express volume to his Ground division...and undercut his Express employees even further.

As far as UPS employees striking if FedEx employees strike, what logic are you using? A strike is a collective action by employees engaged in negotiating a deal with their employer. The strike is a withholding of labor to emphasize the the employees are equals in the negotiations. Why in the name of all that is rational would UPS employees strike, since they (currently) have no beef with THEIR employer? A FedEx strike is an internal affair, UPS employees have no dog in that hunt. They would certainly support their union brothers and sisters in the effort, but engaging in a strike against their own employer in that context would be senseless.

They would probably not cross a picket line to deliver any packages to FedEx sites though!
the only logic i am using is what can the union do for me? just think of the devastatingly effective attention the teamsters could have garnered had every teamter rig shut down in the strike against ups. it seems to me that the "brotherhood" could have really had their way and unions would truly be strong today. absent the possibility of ups striking with their "fedex union brothers" i am suspicious of ups union members concerning themselves with my membership or lack thereof. forgive me if i question the motives of my competitor, but sites like "fedex watch" seemed aimed more at the demonization of Fred S and fedex and little to do with addressing something of more primary concern, namely the relatively small involvement in the union of current members.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
We had our state of the company meeting... my favorite question after they got done telling us that:

Lates are reduced, Injuries are reduced, accidents are reduced... (probably cause volume is at "mid-90's levels")

They tell us that the "employee loyalty survey" scored higher than ever..

Someone asked: "So if the company is full of so many happy employees... why are they so worried about the Union?..."

The response... "this is Fred's popcorn stand.. and Fred does what Fred wants"

That pretty much summed it up for me.. senior managers are disgruntled as well.


Nobody but upper management knows what the true SFA results are, and only a maroon would believe they are telling the truth this year. Does anyone really think that they would release an SFA that showed the sheep were displeased in any way? Their results get "better" every year because that's what the propaganda machine is supposed to say. Same Kool-Aid, just a different flavor this year.

You make a great point. If everything is so great, why even fight the end of the RLA exemption? After all, all of us "happy" employees would just say no to an evil union, right?

Fred is terrified that he might actually have to pay us a living wage and maybe even have a retirement plan again. The RLA deal has given Smith complete control over his workforce (except the pilots), and he doesn't want the fairy tale to end.
 

SmithBarney

Well-Known Member
Interesting things happening at our station, our 2 managers(and our 23 routes) have been out every day for the past two weeks doing ride alongs... I had mine "by request"
about a month ago. I got my 6.9 would have had a 7.0 but because apparently my "safe driving" doesn't count until I've been in place for 12 months.(just transferred in) not like it matters, "if" we were getting raises it would equate to .01 cent... whoopdee do!
 

barnyard

KTM rider
It's funny to me that most people seem to think that a change in the RLA rules would mean immediate unionization of FedEx. Right to work states might not see an organizer for years. If the rules change, I would bet that it takes a year to identify the 1st station to organize, a year to get it done and another year to get a contract (maybe more, look at Overnite Transportation, owned by Union Pacific, a union railroad.)

I would almost bet that if the RLA is changed and IF a station is organized, that Fred himself would sit in on negotiations. I'd also bet that it will/would not be pretty.

Once that happens, then start getting card checks at other stations. Problem is, 3-5 years later is enough time to integrate the networks.

If I were a FedEx employee, I would be concerned for my future. Not because FedEx may go out of business, but because they may embrace the IC for all their operations.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
The frontline management was stuffed under the bus by Fred, so they are even more ticked off than the hourly employees. They made their deal with Fred, and Fred returned the favor last year by gutting their pension, cutting their pay and eliminating their bonuses.

This is why I stated that many if not most salaried employees are hopeing that the RLA exemption gets pulled. They won't immediately see the benefits, but Fred will eventually have to return the full pension to the salaried employees too (assuming the unionized employees get the pension back).

If they loyalty survey was such a success for FedEx... Why was it administered in the first place? (they knew there were problems). Why was the SFA delayed for so long? (they knew that were problems indicated on the Loyalty Survey). Why did Fred resort to the "brown bailout" website if the SFA indicated things were just peachy? (because FedEx got slaughtered on the SFA this time).

Most frontlline managers that are clear thinking, rational individuals are just as ticked off as their hourly employees, if not more. They don't have the option to restart careers without taking a major hit. As part of their job, they have to place a good face on everything that is going on. I don't have any sympathy for them, since they already chose sides in this conflict, but I do understand their situation (and communicate with many to get my information). If they could somehow sign a "managerial union card", they'd do it right now.


Great comment on the managers....spot on. Many of them are on our side but have to hard-sell the BS even though they think it's crap too. That's where I get a lot of my info and most of them aren't shy about telling me how unhappy they are and how they feel like hypocrites peddling this filth.

When my senior talks about unions it's like he's quoting from a script (which he is) and you can tell his heart isn't in it. Like you said, it's hard to feel too sorry for them because they knew that being a liar was part of the program from the get go. It makes you wonder how many of the top dogs in Memphis wish Fred would shuffle off into retirement and STFU so they could possibly start steering the ship in the right direction for a change.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
It's funny to me that most people seem to think that a change in the RLA rules would mean immediate unionization of FedEx. Right to work states might not see an organizer for years. If the rules change, I would bet that it takes a year to identify the 1st station to organize, a year to get it done and another year to get a contract (maybe more, look at Overnite Transportation, owned by Union Pacific, a union railroad.)

I would almost bet that if the RLA is changed and IF a station is organized, that Fred himself would sit in on negotiations. I'd also bet that it will/would not be pretty.

Once that happens, then start getting card checks at other stations. Problem is, 3-5 years later is enough time to integrate the networks.

If I were a FedEx employee, I would be concerned for my future. Not because FedEx may go out of business, but because they may embrace the IC for all their operations.

This is what I've been trying to get across for a few weeks with my "pragmatic" posts. Fred's long term plan (assuming he can keep the IC charade going on at Ground) is to move non-overnight volume over there, keeping his labor costs lower that he is currently experiencing. Even under NLRB rules, it will take a few years to get widespread coverage of unions across the US. Fred wants to prevent having to fight that battle at any cost, that is why he has spent millions to keep the RLA. I know my station wouldn't vote in a union until they saw other stations get successful contracts in force (by then I'll be long gone). So for me it is a lost cause. It is all principle for me now.

Given the model of Express, he can't convert them to the IC model. He can't simultaneously argue to keep the RLA AND want an IC model. RLA exists to keep EMPLOYEES on the job and prevent work stopages. No company can control contractors like this. Employees under RLA that engage in "illegal" strike activity can be punished by Federal action. ICs can't be touched (they're independent after all).
 

barnyard

KTM rider
I really think that you guys are between a rock and a hard place. Could be a tough, stressful couple of years. I hope it works out......

Tom B
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
This is an excellent summary of the campaign out of Business Week.

FedEx hopes to harness taxpayer ire sparked by the word "bailout" to kill legislation in Congress that would help nearly 100,000 of its workers to unionize more easily. FedEx argues the bill would hobble it with higher costs and less reliability across its network and represents unfair government aid for its chief rival, UPS.
The dispute involves the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2009, which contains a provision that would change the labor law covering FedEx workers. Language introduced in the bill by U.S. Representative James Oberstar (D-Minn.) would subject FedEx workers to the same rules as those performing similar work for Atlanta-based UPS. The measure affects employees of FedEx Express, which along with FedEx Ground, FedEx Freight, and FedEx Office comprises FedEx, but not the status of FedEx Express workers who are air-based, such as pilots and airplane mechanics. The bill passed the House on May 21 and is now in the Senate, where a similar House measure failed in 2007.
FedEx's campaign, dubbed "Brown Bailout," debuted June 9 online and could be followed by television and print ads. The company wants consumers to complain to their senators about the legislation. On Brownbailout.com, the FedEx campaign's Web site, a man in front of a whiteboard describes "getting a government bailout" in a manner similar to UPS' "Brown" marketing campaign. After stating that UPS is struggling to compete with FedEx, which ships a higher percentage of its parcels by air, the man says, "So what do you do? Well, you could try to improve your own business…well, that's hard work. Instead, how about slipping a few words into an important government bill that gets you a bailout?" He uses his marker to turn the S in UPS into a dollar sign. "We're doing it right now, but shhh…don't tell anybody."

End Quote

Fred is going to try to keep FedEx employees from unionizing, by attacking UPS and trying to make the argument that FedEx is an airline, and not a "trucking company". This is classic smoke and mirrors. Fred can't directly attack the employees, so he takes what is known in military circles as the "indirect approach". One doesn't go straight at one's objective, one takes an easier course of action which will inevitability achieve one's real objective in due course. By framing the issue as granting UPS an unfair advantage (what Fred is trying to call a UPS "bailout"), he can achieve his true objective in keeping FedEx employees from being able to successfully unionize. Like I wrote before, he is "fangs out" on this one.
@MrFedEx this was the earliest post I could find that referred to what I was talking about. We were having serious discussions about it back then. Surprised you don't remember it.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
More great ideas from the people who want to put Ronald Reagan on Mt Rushmore. This is a "Hail Mary" from Smith, and it's going to be intercepted in the end zone.

I will now translate for FEATW.....FRED'S PLAN IS GOING TO FAIL.
And damn, you were off back then too.
 
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