Amazon Water and AOC Oil Don't Mix

[Brownslave688]

It’s not even about ‘socialism’, lulz.

Cuomo and DiBlase made a back-room deal with Amazon, and they didn’t involve the community.

We could have a discussion about whether or not an $800B company actually needs a tax break, but that’s neither here nor there.

It’s not all about the alleged tax-base increase, it’s more about what actually happens on the ground...

Not a great track record with these ‘incentives’ given to corporations vis-a-vis actual benefits.

On a side-note, Amazon walked away, immediately.

One theory is that Amazon actually didn’t care very much, and the entire exercise was a rather elaborate data collection maneuver.

In either case, the citizens on the ground were that there wasn’t any type of community outreach, and that the Guvnor and the Mayor worked it all out in the shadows.

Why in the world would any municipality subsidize the richest corporation in the history of corporations?

Amazon should be happy to land somewhere, which is a large undertaking, for Amazon and the town.

Queens wasn’t ready for that huge of an influx of workers, and, Amazon wasn’t ready or willing to mitigate the disruption that would cause.

Again, why in the world should cities subsidize companies coming in, where the future potential benefits outweigh the immediate clstrfk?

What they received was less than one years projected salaries for what they were gonna produce and that’s actual workforce.


We haven’t even mentioned all of the jobs created to build the campus and infrastructure

 

[Brownslave688]

Not in Nashville ... down south 40 miles or so south of Franklin.
I would live out in the country and go into Nashville to catch concerts a couple times a week.
Go into Franklin for eating out.

I like Yuppies as well as I like any other type.
My day is perfect if I don't interact with another person, in person, especially my wife.

I think that’s the area my brother got married at

 

[bacha29]

It’s not even about ‘socialism’, lulz.

Cuomo and DiBlase made a back-room deal with Amazon, and they didn’t involve the community.

We could have a discussion about whether or not an $800B company actually needs a tax break, but that’s neither here nor there.

It’s not all about the alleged tax-base increase, it’s more about what actually happens on the ground...

Not a great track record with these ‘incentives’ given to corporations vis-a-vis actual benefits.

On a side-note, Amazon walked away, immediately.

One theory is that Amazon actually didn’t care very much, and the entire exercise was a rather elaborate data collection maneuver.

In either case, the citizens on the ground were that there wasn’t any type of community outreach, and that the Guvnor and the Mayor worked it all out in the shadows.

Why in the world would any municipality subsidize the richest corporation in the history of corporations?

Amazon should be happy to land somewhere, which is a large undertaking, for Amazon and the town.

Queens wasn’t ready for that huge of an influx of workers, and, Amazon wasn’t ready or willing to mitigate the disruption that would cause.

Again, why in the world should cities subsidize companies coming in, where the future potential benefits outweigh the immediate clstrfk?

Good points. I believe that it was Pittsburgh that was ordered by state court to release to the public the tax and services concessions package that it had put together to offer Amazon which up to that time had been kept private.
If the same thing happened in Queens where life long residents were for all intents and purposes were told just to get out of the way it should then come as no surprise that the outcome was what it was.
Whatever benefits the project might have brought the people who have lived there all their lives made it clear that they weren't going to be cuffed around by the mayor , the governor and Jeff Bezos. Sometimes the power in numbers is not always measured in the number of dollars.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

I think that’s the area my brother got married at

Really pretty area with rolling hills and my wife is a Civil War fan and that area is very rich in battlegrounds, entrenchments and buildings left over from the war.
I don't care anything about the Civil War (ancient history and my ancestors were Union soldiers) but there are good pictures to be captured.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Good points. I believe that it was Pittsburgh that was ordered by state court to release to the public the tax and services concessions package that it had put together to offer Amazon which up to that time had been kept private.
If the same thing happened in Queens where life long residents were for all intents and purposes were told just to get out of the way it should then come as no surprise that the outcome was what it was.
Whatever benefits the project might have brought the people who have lived there all their lives made it clear that they weren't going to be cuffed around by the mayor , the governor and Jeff Bezos. Sometimes the power in numbers is not always measured in the number of dollars.

I don't care for the taste of principles so I like the dollars to get fajitas and bread pudding.

 

[BrownArmy]

What they received was less than one years projected salaries for what they were gonna produce and that’s actual workforce.


We haven’t even mentioned all of the jobs created to build the campus and infrastructure

But, but, but...

You’re super-optimistic.

As crappy as NYC’s transit system is, it’s at least functional, meaning, many of those potential workers would be commuting.

There’s simply not room for 25,000 extra people in Queens, meaning a majority of those potential workers might live in Jersey (shudder).

My point is, it looks good on paper, but while 15% of those jobs are in the $100K+ range, that $ range of workers are already in NY, the rest will make minimum wage.

Amazon just wants another warehouse...

Pay people minimum wage to work harder than UPS drivers, with no benefits.

I live near Boston, we gave Amazon a great pitch (colleges galore, etc, steady smart and educated workforce)...

Nope, they just want more warehouse and logistical spaces.

By the way, you pay more effective taxes than Amazon does.

Weird, right?

And a municipality should subsidize Amazon?

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

It's amazing really.
20 to 30 years ago people were trying to fight against Walmart. They understood that a giant corporation was putting people out of business, driving down wages, ushering in the end of American manufacturing, and subsidizing their profits with taxpayer dollars.

The situation hasn't changed much but now people are throwing money at a very similar company.

And they'll wonder why the middle class is ed. Sad really.

 

[Brownslave688]

But, but, but...

You’re super-optimistic.

As crappy as NYC’s transit system is, it’s at least functional, meaning, many of those potential workers would be commuting.

There’s simply not room for 25,000 extra people in Queens, meaning a majority of those potential workers might live in Jersey (shudder).

My point is, it looks good on paper, but while 15% of those jobs are in the $100K+ range, that $ range of workers are already in NY, the rest will make minimum wage.

Amazon just wants another warehouse...

Pay people minimum wage to work harder than UPS drivers, with no benefits.

I live near Boston, we gave Amazon a great pitch (colleges galore, etc, steady smart and educated workforce)...

Nope, they just want more warehouse and logistical spaces.

By the way, you pay more effective taxes than Amazon does.

Weird, right?

And a municipality should subsidize Amazon?

This is not a warehouse. This is a headquarters campus. High paying tech jobs would be a large majority of the jobs there.


And I have no ill will towards me paying more taxes than amazon. Good for them. I’d pay zero too if I could.

 

[BrownArmy]

This is not a warehouse. This is a headquarters campus. High paying tech jobs would be a large majority of the jobs there.


And I have no ill will towards me paying more taxes than amazon. Good for them. I’d pay zero too if I could.

Lulz, why did Amazon choke almost immediately?

They were never about anything you’re thinking.

The ‘high-paying’ jobs are anyone that earns that $150 K...

They could live anywhere.

Amazon was just playing.

 

[Brownslave688]

Lulz, why did Amazon choke almost immediately?

They were never about anything you’re thinking.

The ‘high-paying’ jobs are anyone that earns that $150 K...

They could live anywhere.

Amazon was just playing.

Choke almost immediately?


They had Hundreds of cities offering them all kinds of stuff. That’s right over 200!!! Why would they stick with a location that looks like it’s going to have lots of issues with the locals?

They’ll simply move on to another option.

Amazon HQ2 - Wikipedia

 

[BrownArmy]

Choke almost immediately?


They had Hundreds of cities offering them all kinds of stuff. That’s right over 200!!! Why would they stick with a location that looks like it’s going to have lots of issues with the locals?

They’ll simply move on to another option.

Amazon HQ2 - Wikipedia

A different way to think about that is why wasn’t the local populace involved in the decision making process?

Top-down nonsense from the Governor and the Mayor...

It’s not just the alleged ‘windfall’ of a potential tax-base increase; if there’s no room for 25,000 workers in Queens, 75% of which won’t be making $150K but will instead be making $15/hr, those ‘new’ workers won’t be living in Queens anyway.

So, at the end of the day, the city was going to subsidize Amazon to overburden the already taxed transit system, wait in vain for a payoff which might be two decades coming, and be happy about it?

Why is any municipality subsidizing companies like Amazon anyway?

It’s crap.

(Google just built a gigantic campus in NYC, spent a Billion, no tax breaks or nonsense, huh)

 

[rickyb]

Really? 70% is a super majority.

yea the study was done by one of the top schools in america.

 

[bbsam]

Amazon NY was to be a headquarters in an area with much higher wages than WI.

Not to mention a far higher cost of living.

 

[Brownslave688]

A different way to think about that is why wasn’t the local populace involved in the decision making process?

Top-down nonsense from the Governor and the Mayor...

It’s not just the alleged ‘windfall’ of a potential tax-base increase; if there’s no room for 25,000 workers in Queens, 75% of which won’t be making $150K but will instead be making $15/hr, those ‘new’ workers won’t be living in Queens anyway.

So, at the end of the day, the city was going to subsidize Amazon to overburden the already taxed transit system, wait in vain for a payoff which might be two decades coming, and be happy about it?

Why is any municipality subsidizing companies like Amazon anyway?

It’s crap.

(Google just built a gigantic campus in NYC, spent a Billion, no tax breaks or nonsense, huh)

The local populace elects officials to make these choices for them.


There’s a reason we don’t have a vote on absolutely everything that happens. One of those reasons is the general public is pretty dumb and does stuff like cheers about running away 25k jobs.


You keep saying 75% would be making min wage.


There is ZERO indication of that. THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE A WAREHOUSE!!!!! How hard is that to understand?

 

[MAKAVELI]

LA still isn't really a pro football town. Probably more college football. Very much basketball. I heard they even have a baseball team. And they wish they had a hockey team.

If they continue to put a quality winning team out there, they'll pack that stadium every Sunday.

 

[BrownArmy]

The local populace elects officials to make these choices for them.


There’s a reason we don’t have a vote on absolutely everything that happens. One of those reasons is the general public is pretty dumb and does stuff like cheers about running away 25k jobs.


You keep saying 75% would be making min wage.


There is ZERO indication of that. THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE A WAREHOUSE!!!!! How hard is that to understand?

Well, now it’s not going to be anything!

 

[Brownslave688]

If they continue to put a quality winning team out there, they'll pack that stadium every Sunday.

Until they are not any good any more then the team will move. It’s happened before

 

[MAKAVELI]

Until they are not any good any more then the team will move. It’s happened before

Not as likely without public financing.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

These subsidies should be illegal.

 

[Brownslave688]

These subsidies should be illegal.

There was recently a huge uproar in a town near here. It’s 3 town that feed into one school. One town like 5000 other two under 1000. One of the smaller towns made a deal with a developer to put up a 300 apartment complex in a tif district. The developer has done similar stuff in my town but the school negotiated a certain percentage of property taxes to go to them.

Because the town the complex was being built in was not the town the school was in there were no such negotiations and the school was essentially getting nothing.