Biggest scam is on all UPS hourly employees

[Bill]

And just a few months ago, you, as well as some 300,000 other UPS employees, had an opportunity to vote out the likes of The Hoffa Slate. Where was everyone during that election? What part did you play in that election? And thus I make my point. Corruption and politics are in every facet of our lives. The only way to get control of it and make it work for us, is in numbers. To divide, is to conquer! And since you've failed to answer my quote completely, let me do it for you. This APWA doesn't exist, they represent no one. You would have us all believe in this fairy tale of pixies and fairy dust, where the UPS world will be perfect. What is it that you don't understand! Talk about scams!

If the APWA doesn't exist, then who and why are they collecting signatures to petition the NLRB to hold a referendum on electing a union?

 

[Bill]

Engineer. I am in the West New York pension fund

It seems to me that the CS fund`s problems are a result from mismanagement on Morgan Stanley and Sachs behalf. Why didn`t our government watch over where they were investing the money

Your fund just took a cut as well. I can't answer for the government, but it seems that this gov't is so corrupt that they are not interested in the working class.

 

[Bill]

I disagree Nospin. The whole debate revolves whether or not the APWA could negoiate a contract that would get UPS to contribute the same amount of money to the pension fund that the Teamster currently do. And no matter what you say you cannot promise that.

How do you know that during the next negotiations, the Teamsters will ask for more money, UPS will reply that only 40% goes to UPS employees in Central States, and why should we fund other company pensions? Most likely, UPS will tell the Teamsters to take a hike. Please see my other post in #58.

 

[Bill]

Gladly, the pension money goes into a big pot that is managed by a group of teamster and company reps. Niether group has 100% control over the money in those funds. In fact, sqabbling between these two groups is part of the reason these funds are in the shape they are today.

It doesn't matter who manages the fund at this point. The pension fund in Central States in in big trouble and beyond the point of no return as I have stated and proven in my opening thread. For further analysis, please read my post #58. I don't expect someone such as Brett636 to read or be able to comprehend this.

 

[Lizzard Toungue]

I could not agree with you more Engineer 79.One thing you did not mention was the pension plan expenses.Our teamster plan from our local takes 8 percent of yearly contributions off the top. If this money was put into your 401k you would be ahead 8 percent from the start. As far as your calculations are concerned I more than believe them. I have put about 150000 dollars in IRAs and the 401k plan that now has a value over 1.2 million. People forget that this has been the best stock and bond markets over the past 25 years. As far as the pension plan goes I am for putting the money in your 401k.In our local UPS contributes 13000 per year per man. I have read the 5500 form filings and most of the plan is made up of mutual funds which you could do yourself a lot cheaper.I cant add much more because you did a very good job sumerizing our plan.

 

[brett636]

I have looked at the times that you post your thoughts. They appear to be during the work week. Are you a business agent just looking out for your own best interests? Are you worried that the APWA might replace the Teamsters and you will stop receiving your big paycheck and pension benefits?
As for proving to you that the plan under the APWA will work, I have already done so by showing you the numbers, but you don't even bother to do the math yourself or have someone else do it for you if you can't follow along.
As for negotiating a contract, the Teamsters according to them, have given you the "best contract ever". Under the best contract, we have taken medical and pension cuts. If this is the best they can do, I don't want them negotiating future contracts for us. The Teamsters also have refused to open the books to show us what really is taking place behind the scenes. This is supposed to be public record.

I have posed this question to you and every one else reading Browncafe. What is the reason to continue to remain with the Teamsters? Please don't tell me it is because of years of experience negotiating contracts. I already dispelled that in the above paragraph.

If thats the best rebuttle you can come up with I can say I won this debate quite handily. I've seen the numbers, long before you ever appeared on this board. I want to see the proof that the APWA has experience at doing what they say they are going to do. To date they have shown none, and considering how you avoided my questions about the APWA in your posts shows you don't know either.

 

[30andout]

If thats the best rebuttle you can come up with I can say I won this debate quite handily. I've seen the numbers, long before you ever appeared on this board. I want to see the proof that the APWA has experience at doing what they say they are going to do. To date they have shown none, and considering how you avoided my questions about the APWA in your posts shows you don't know either.

Come on, we all know the young buck Brett has all the answers.

 

[brett636]

Come on, we all know the young buck Brett has all the answers.

Not all the answers, just logical ones that aren't based on clueless emotions.

 

[beentheredonethat]

You are the first person to actually think this through. Congratulations. Here is the history of UPS contributions from 1974 through the present. In 1974, UPS contributed $19.50 per week per employee into the pension fund. In the following years, UPs paid out $22,25,28,31,41,46,etc until presently at $214 per week. In August 1, 2008 the number will go up again. There has never been a decrease. UPS contributions over this 30 year period (1974-2003)was $130,130. Lets take the average income fund in America over this same period and add the UPS contribution, reinvested annual dividends, reinvested annual capital gains distributions. The total would be $688,288. This would be more than enough to fund a measly pension of $3000 per month that the Teamsters can not give some of us because of other obligations. Under the APWA, they would not have these obligations, thus rewarding us with the full potential of the pension fund. At the current rate of contributions on UPS behalf, we would all have over $1,200,000 with which to draw a secure pension. The Teamsters are offering $3500 a month pension if you work an 35 years until the year 2042. What will $3500 be worth in 2042? At least the APWA wants a cost of living increase built into the pension, the Teamsters make no mention of it. I hope I have clarified this. If not, feel free to ask additional questions. I don't mind taking the time to answer you, but some of you out there are making baseless insinuations without any knowledge other than what you hear form the Teamsters. Think for yourself, do the math, then make an intelligent decision after weighing both sides of the issues.

Thanks, If you have all the figures of contributions over the last 30 or so years. I suggest you run those contribution levels and use a baseline for growth based on the SP500, some years, excellent returns, other years negative returns. If you use those numbers and show what a person starting in 74 and retiring this year @ 55 yrs old would have accumulated. Then show what the teamsters will have in a payout would open a few eyes. I think the toughest part I have with your notes is mixing and matching the past and the present and the future. What happened is easy if you have all the numbers. What will happen if the APWA takes over is another whole thing. It's easy to say what they would have done. But, here's another item. If you are a driver who is 50 now, how would he\she be affected? Would the APWA get the contributions UPS put in for him\her over the years compounded based on the SP500? It's a great theory, but you can't get blood from a stone. The money simply isn't there. I hope you get my point, how would the APWA or the APWA\Teamsters handle the guys that already busted their butt for UPS over the last 20,25 30 years and should rightfully so be getting ready for a good retirement.

 

[30andout]

Not all the answers, just logical ones that aren't based on clueless emotions.

Yep, I do let my clueless emotions get in the way after 35 years at UPS. And now I am told I have 12 more to go till I can retire.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Look at it this way....UPS is paying a set amount of OUR money into the the Teamsters Pension fund every month on our behalf but 60% of it is going to other companies that didn't work for it. They didn't earn it. It is going to the smaller companies. The lowest common denominator. It's our money and we should be entitled to it. Not Yellow Freight or whoever else is leaching off us. This whole concept smells like communism to me. It's bad enough that our tax dollars are going to trash that live in housing projects because they are too lazy to work but to also have an even greater portion of our paychecks going the pockets of people that don't even work for the same company is too much for me to stomach. Man I wish we could opt out. Like maybe somehow get UPS to automatically put that money in our 401-K every month instead of into the pocket books of Yellow Freight, Roadway, and the thugs working in all the union halls.

 

[si_dan]

Hello 804. Co-pays are going to rise to $10.00 per visit and for each prescription. Still pretty good but it seem to be the trend everywhere.

 

[3brownstars]

Re: APWA....the Evolution of Labor

I'm sorry, but I fail to see why I or any other intelligent UPSer should have to risk what we have because you can't plan your finances beyond next week. 20 years is plenty of time to save for a good retirment for yourself. You could probably do just as well or better than your pension, but alas you don't want to think that far ahead for yourself. You would rather put your future in the hands of an unproven organization that promises the world but doesn't know how it will deliver.

The facts of this argument is not if I can plan my own finances. The fact is that my earnings are not going to me! I was told that I would get (X) amount and now I'm not going to get it. If this started happening to your precious wages, that you are using to invest for retirement, I would imagine you would be screaming for change the loudest.

As far as putting my future in the hands of an "unproven" organization. Compaired to what the IBT has been doing to my pension and health care I'll trust the hands of the APWA.

Do you belive that the IBT officers you elect are the ones that are managing your pension investments? The APWA will hire some of the best people in the industry to invest our pension money in the same markets in which you have your peronal/401k investment. (I am assuming that you hired someone or you are using a type of online trading comany to invest in the markets).

 

[mittam]

Engineer, I have full medical coverage with a copay of only 5 dollars for meds. Full dental and eyeglass care. In 8 years I will have 30 in with a monthly pension of 6100 dollars. I will be 55. If I take a popup of 400 dollars per month then my wife will receive 5700 dollars per month after I die until her death.

I have read the APWA`s proposals and have emailed them with several questions. I have yet to receive a answer.

I have no reason to join them and neither does the other people in our area.

send me a PM and I will give you the phone number to call and get your answers, these guys are working 45-50 hours a week then speding all weekends on the road, they are quite busy, not an excuse for not answering your e-mails just they are always going, sometimes a phone call is easier

 

[Bill]

If thats the best rebuttle you can come up with I can say I won this debate quite handily. I've seen the numbers, long before you ever appeared on this board. I want to see the proof that the APWA has experience at doing what they say they are going to do. To date they have shown none, and considering how you avoided my questions about the APWA in your posts shows you don't know either.

I don't think you won anything. All you do is make baseless statements. I have given you facts with the numbers to back them up and can easily verify everything I have written. You, on the other hand, still have not answered the question of what the Teamsters are offering. Why don't we let the other people who read this decide who is winning the debate?

 

[brett636]

I don't think you won anything. All you do is make baseless statements. I have given you facts with the numbers to back them up and can easily verify everything I have written. You, on the other hand, still have not answered the question of what the Teamsters are offering. Why don't we let the other people who read this decide who is winning the debate?

Fool, I never said the teamsters were the greatest union since the start of the labor movement. I said I want to see proof that the APWA can do better. The numbers mean nothing to me. I know a lot of people with advanced college degrees who are worthless in the real world because they lack the real world skills to make it anywhere. Same goes for the APWA, they can show me they know how to do basic investment math, now show me how they plan to get there. When the company throws their "best, last, and final offer" on the table and its barley half of what the APWA had hoped for, what are they gonna do?

 

[Bill]

Thanks, If you have all the figures of contributions over the last 30 or so years. I suggest you run those contribution levels and use a baseline for growth based on the SP500, some years, excellent returns, other years negative returns. If you use those numbers and show what a person starting in 74 and retiring this year @ 55 yrs old would have accumulated. Then show what the teamsters will have in a payout would open a few eyes. I think the toughest part I have with your notes is mixing and matching the past and the present and the future. What happened is easy if you have all the numbers. What will happen if the APWA takes over is another whole thing. It's easy to say what they would have done. But, here's another item. If you are a driver who is 50 now, how would he\she be affected? Would the APWA get the contributions UPS put in for him\her over the years compounded based on the SP500? It's a great theory, but you can't get blood from a stone. The money simply isn't there. I hope you get my point, how would the APWA or the APWA\Teamsters handle the guys that already busted their butt for UPS over the last 20,25 30 years and should rightfully so be getting ready for a good retirement.

I am showing you the past 30 years to indicate what should be in everyones pension fund. The Teamsters are not giving us (at least those in Central States) what we should have earned through UPS contributions. This is due to other obligations such as paying for retirees in other companies, as well as funding their own pensions. We only receive 40% of the money that UPS contributes. The future projections are another issue. If the annual contributions by UPS stays the same, we all should have at least $1.2 million. However, each year UPS has contributed more, and if this trend continues, then logically we should all have that much more. The Teamsters believe it is their money to do as they see fit. Doesn't it make sense that if we had a union that represented only UPS employees, all the pension money would go to us and not have to be shared as is the current status with the Teamsters. The numbers under the Teamster leadership either past or present simply are not giving us what we have worked hard for.
As for the older drivers who are close to retiring, they should receive at least what the Teamsters are offering. The process will take a suit filed by the APWA. A precedent has already been set in a lawsuit dating back to 1991 and appealed in 1993. The Teamsters will be forced to turn over a proportionate amount of pension money that they still have in the fund. In addition, the older drivers will have more security for their families as well as a guaranteed monthly premium of $300 for medical instead of up to $1040 that the Teamsters have implemented. Also, under the APWA, we will not have to work until the age of 65 as the Teamsters in Central States want us to. How many of the package car drivers will be able to work at the ripe old age of 65?

 

[govols019]

Can you explain why the APWA has hired Tom Coleman? Can you explain this article Beating The Union at Its Own Game from his own firms website?

You want us to trust someone like this?

 

[brownmonster]

Trucking companies like Yellow, Roadway etc. do pay into the pension plan also. You guys act like UPS is the only one paying in for everyone. 30andOut. 35 years in and 12 to go. Save much?

 

[3brownstars]

Trucking companies like Yellow, Roadway etc. do pay into the pension plan also. You guys act like UPS is the only one paying in for everyone. 30andOut. 35 years in and 12 to go. Save much?

I understand that the other companies do pay into the pension funds. I would like to see how much is being paid by other employers into Central States, and if the workers are earning $.40 on evry dollar paid on thier behalf.