I agree, we pay people who made it past 12th grade (some of them) 60-100 grand a year and they want more. I wonder why FedEx is cleaning house... The thing is the more senior drivers could care less if they lay people off, they're safe. I just wonder what most of them do with the cash. Our drivers make more then most people in this town and they are all drunks and have nothing to show for it. The union was good at one point in time but now it's a joke.
california lunch class action
- Thread starter I GOT ONE MORE
- Start date
helenofcalifornia
Well-Known Member
A little harsh, Deadend.
Whatever you do is a personal choice.
Ive never seen anyone fired for taking their lunch. or breaks. If you do, that is what the union should take care of. How about a class action suit against the teamsters? Or did you not notify them of the threat? You pay them, use them.
I run later than any of you, and I do not work off the clock in anyway. Maybe an occasional peak at what I have, if asked, or because I need to get off early, I may skip a lunch or break, that is my choice.
Other than that, I used to try to make numbers by running myself ragged, but I was not being safe, or providing service. I dont any more. I would love to make the numbers but I cant, so I dont worry. They get mad about my numbers, they ride with me. They scratch their head, and I dont hear anymore. They give me too much work, or too much commercial, I call. Its on them. Ill be flexible if we are short, or they made a bad call, but not continuosly. That is their job, they cant find where I lose time, its their job to find out whats wrong. If its me, get rid of me, if its them, the weather, the bulk, the bad day, a bad load then it is. So why pay lawyers 22 mil, to get what you coulda got all by yourself. Thats what I dont see.
Trick I see what you are saying, about payback and all, but 2.20 a day for all you have given the company? It isnt worth it.
And whoever said paying 27 dollars to people who "may" have a 12th grade education. How degrading. You got people in NYC running garbage trucks for 120 grand a year. We get paid what we are worth, whether its 60 grand or 100 grand, if you are doing it, and getting paid then you are worth it. If a guy with a 8th grade education is getting paid, because he is doing the job, yes he got lucky, but isnt he worth it?????? Give that one up.
Ive never seen anyone fired for taking their lunch. or breaks. If you do, that is what the union should take care of. How about a class action suit against the teamsters? Or did you not notify them of the threat? You pay them, use them.
I run later than any of you, and I do not work off the clock in anyway. Maybe an occasional peak at what I have, if asked, or because I need to get off early, I may skip a lunch or break, that is my choice.
Other than that, I used to try to make numbers by running myself ragged, but I was not being safe, or providing service. I dont any more. I would love to make the numbers but I cant, so I dont worry. They get mad about my numbers, they ride with me. They scratch their head, and I dont hear anymore. They give me too much work, or too much commercial, I call. Its on them. Ill be flexible if we are short, or they made a bad call, but not continuosly. That is their job, they cant find where I lose time, its their job to find out whats wrong. If its me, get rid of me, if its them, the weather, the bulk, the bad day, a bad load then it is. So why pay lawyers 22 mil, to get what you coulda got all by yourself. Thats what I dont see.
Trick I see what you are saying, about payback and all, but 2.20 a day for all you have given the company? It isnt worth it.
And whoever said paying 27 dollars to people who "may" have a 12th grade education. How degrading. You got people in NYC running garbage trucks for 120 grand a year. We get paid what we are worth, whether its 60 grand or 100 grand, if you are doing it, and getting paid then you are worth it. If a guy with a 8th grade education is getting paid, because he is doing the job, yes he got lucky, but isnt he worth it?????? Give that one up.
satellitedriver
Moderator
Helen was too polite in her reply. You said " we pay", I presume you speak in the royal "WE", since I have never seen DeadEnd anywhere on my paycheck.
Have you taken a poll of the senior drivers to get their opinion on layoffs?
As a senior driver, I do not feel safe,as you say. I have to perform the same as a person half my age every day to earn my keep.
I do not know what most of them do with their cash. I pay bills with mine and invest the rest.
An honest union is always good for the common worker.
Your statement trying to equate education to pay is as ludicrous as the lawsuit for lunch time pay. It matters more what you physically do at UPS, than what you have been taught.
Fedex will take care of themselves when they vote the teamsters in.
satellitedriver
Moderator
Tooner, you are dead on. You could have saved a lot of typing, just stopping at your first sentence.
Whatever you do is your personal choice says it all.
tieguy
Banned
Brownie great post. Thank you. My point exactly. When I delivered I took the lunch unless I had something special going on. Even today I have people that insist on taking the full lunch and some who ask me to let them cut it short so they can make some personal committment. I also have people who understand we don't live in a perfect world and will cut their meal short when they feel they need to in order to make service on a customers packages. I'm sure there are managment people that abuse this trust my people put in the system but I don't think it required a lawsuit that really did nothing more then make a handfull of lawyers rich. If you as a driver really despise office stiffs who have it easy then why would you ever participate in a lawsuit that makes lawyers who have never worn the brown uniform rich. This lawsuit made a handful of lawyers richer and gave the upers represented a pittance in exchange.
browniehound
Well-Known Member
Tooner,
From what I gather from your posts I hardly think you are a slacker or one of these drivers who "milks" the clock because he needs to make a certain amount of take-home pay per week, even if his stop-count doesn't justify it.
I'm suprised management gives you such a hard time. Where I'm from, if you come to work on time, deliver your air on time, no missed, don't piss anyone off, make 9.5, and come in at a reasonable area of your SPHOR, the bosses leave me alone. Good luck Tooner
dave_socal
PACKAGE/FEEDER
I opened my mail and boom $6500.00 You must sign a release form before you get your check which are due in June.I had forgot about this lawsuit. I've spoken with several drivers and the money ranges from 2,000-11,000 depending on your over 10 hour days worked . I dont like lawsuits against big business for lawyers sake but I'm gonna cash that check and so would you
canon
Well-Known Member
When did we start getting paid sick days? I'll have to file for backpay.
This comes up so often, I just have to ask. We are constantly told by sales reps and upper management just how important the driver is to the company (this is usually followed up by lower management browbeating us for not meeting the numbers). As they put it, "To the customer, the driver IS UPS". We are expected to submit sales leads for new businesses or potential accounts because we're the eyes at the loading docks and know what other carriers they are using. As one center manager told us, "Just because you don't sit in an office all day doesn't mean anything. You are highly paid and highly trained professionals who earn the respect and business from our customers." (Talk about someone who could motivate the drivers... he went on to become a division manager. No college either.)
A friend of my wife who used to work in finance for ups had the same reaction when I first met her. She went on and on how impressed she was that I was a "driver!" and how valuable we are to the company etc etc etc. I thought she was joking because it's not the normal response I'm used to when outside of a video pep-rally in the driver check-in room.
It seems there are circles at ups that genuinely do see the driver as more than just a truck driver for ups. For them, they recognize how much money UPS has spent in our training. They recognize we are the ones with face to face contact with the customer. Some of them know how demanding the job is physically and how high the expectations are. Granted, the concept of actually seeing the driver as a key component to increasing the bottom line may be reserved for those who are destined to climb the corporate ladder. Unfortunately we're stuck at the bottom with the ones who don't share the same corporate vision and only see us as drunks, pervs and thieves.
My question is this (sorry for the tangent): Knowing how important to the company upper management wants us to believe we are, you seem to come down pretty hard on the notion that we are overpaid.
Just a friendly question, there's no right or wrong. What would we make if it were up to you to show us how important we are to UPS?
tieguy
Banned
never would I accuse you of being overpaid and i definitely agree that you play a significant role in retaining the good will of the customer.
The point is UPS is not some nickel and dime company working you to death for 6 bucks an hour and denying you a lunch too. Some people need the hour many would prefer to take less and get home sooner. This was an issue that could be worked out within the contractual language available. If you were denied your hour you grieve and it gets settled. Not no more. Now you will take your hour no matter what. Whats that got a kids ball game to go too? Tough. Take your hour. The lawyers in sue happy californie appreciate the business though.
tieguy
Banned
I opened my mail and boom $6500.00 You must sign a release form before you get your check which are due in June.I had forgot about this lawsuit. I've spoken with several drivers and the money ranges from 2,000-11,000 depending on your over 10 hour days worked . I dont like lawsuits against big business for lawyers sake but I'm gonna cash that check and so would you
an honest answer. Can't say I disagree.
sendagain
Well-Known Member
So what happens now, the company just sets out all these millions whether or not you have it coming or not? The settlement figure just gets divided by the drivers in the state? What's next, do they move to every state in the country and file another class action suit? If a driver doesn't fill out the form, does that mean they just take that money from him and give it to the other drivers?
canon
Well-Known Member
Then UPS should drop the nickel and dime antics. Glad we're in agreement.
Pkgrunner
Till I Collapse
I opened my mail and boom $6500.00 You must sign a release form before you get your check which are due in June.I had forgot about this lawsuit. I've spoken with several drivers and the money ranges from 2,000-11,000 depending on your over 10 hour days worked . I dont like lawsuits against big business for lawyers sake but I'm gonna cash that check and so would you
50% of of the member distribution will be figured from total 10 plus hour days.
You must have had alot more over 10 hr. days from 1/2001-9/2003 than most of the drivers in my hub/division/district. Then again, our district manager at that time was very adamant about 9.5 even through peak. Drivers loved him . I only had 19 days of over 10 for that period-- which I find hard to believe considering it includes 2 peaks.
Couldn't agree with you more. Ironically, this lawsuit made things worse for me not better(can't speak for everyone). Before the lawsuit I rarely worked over 9.5, since it began I rarely work under 10. Though there are still ways around the "mandatory" 30 min. mealperiod diad shutdown between the 5th and 6th hour of work, I preferred to take my lunch and breaks at the end of the day when I could choose whether or not to accually take them. I have been fortunate in that I have always worked in centers that pay production bonus on most routes and prefer earning my 10/11 hr. planned day in 8.5/9.5 hrs. I feel that I am(and have been) more than adequately compensated in production bonus should I decide to work through my lunch--- BTW we do not have pas/edd yet, so production bonus and occasional lunch skipping is still on the near horizon.
helenofcalifornia
Well-Known Member
Well said Canon!! Alot of the drivers attitudes reflect the time and energy that management puts into it. (And please don't give me that macho drivel that we are all adults) We have two UPS centers in my area. One has a GREAT management team that puts time and lots of energy into their centers by providing them with genuine interest and concern with their problems. Little things by including their families in UPS events at the building (great idea!!), "breakfast" before you head on out on Friday's, support when needed on the road, etc. This center is number one in most areas and I think that most drivers would go to the mats for this manager. And then there is this other center.....Manager and his team do zip, squat, nunca, rien, but the bare minimum for his center. And he wonders why his center is always bottoming out in the numbers and doesn't really care about anything but their own little personal world. Don't get me wrong, no one is out to "get" anyone, noone is intentionally tanking and the drivers will help each other out, but something is missing that the other center has and we all know it. We all earn our money but at one center it's "fun" to come to work to a tough job and at another it's a job.
canon
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more Helen. The few managers who cycle thru our building and actually put forth an effort to motivate the drivers thru inspiration rather than discipline really stand out. They aren't with us long however, being promoted from having "turned the center around". The drivers don't "dread" going to work and it shows in their performance.
I'm exposed to a lot of business ideology thru my wife. She's a software analyst for a payroll company and is always listening to business related podcasts and reading CEO books etc. The reading material in the bathroom consists of Inc., Forbes, Home Business etc. Consistantly, the "success" secrets reported include treating the employees as real people because of the concept: They are the ones earning the numbers, you'd better have them on your side. Imagine that, treating people as you'd like to be treated is something foreign in the least successful centers. Hmm. Someone smart should put two and two together.
We voted down the bonus center because of the way management has historically operated in our center. The more work you do, the more they expect. Our fear was that if we were able to do 10 hrs of work in what UPS felt was only 8hrs worth of work, eventually UPS would redefine what they considered 8hrs of work to be. Big shock when that happened, huh? After PAS, we're all an hour to an hour and a half over allowed. Feeder drivers who talk to people in nearby bonus centers reflect the same conclusion. I hope this doesn't prove to be your case when PAS is deployed. Good luck.
Getting home safely everyday and doing a fair days work for a fair days pay is what it's about. Working "faster" to get a bonus puts money as the primary focus imo. If you're able to do the work faster than you had been in the past without compromising safety, then that defines what a fair days work actually is and UPS is justified to expect it on a consistant basis.
I dont think they give me a harder time than anyone who runs as late as I do. There are three routes in the building that run an hour late on a good day. If Im under an hour, Im scratch or better in my world. And it happens to everyone who runs it, the boss who knows it well from riding with me, ran it when I was off and ran two hrs late with two people. He didnt say much for awhile, til my bag of salt ran out. So when I have a bad day its over 2 hrs. The routes affected happened literally overnite when they changed the standards. The resident runner went in and complained about the allowance when even tho he skipped his lunch and breaks he couldnt get done til 6 and ran late, hes always 2 hrs ander, and on comp now I might add. On my last 3 day ride I was 13.8, to 14.2, but Ive ran 15 and been an hour late. And they say what happened, I say nothing and they walk away. They will not time studay as we are someday going on PAS and that will fix it all. HeeHee.
helenofcalifornia
Well-Known Member
OK, what I am not getting here Tooner, is that most of the routes in your building run under less than one hour over? Most of the routes in our building run 1 to 1 1/2 hours over. More than several at two hours or more over. Do most centers run one hour under or scratch?
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