dealing with center managers

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
Let's see, going back to my preload days I would say the good managers I had outweighed the "mean" ones.

Ya know, I'd almost agree. I've got one nasty full-time supe right now but the other full-timer on my sort is a very personable fellow. Very well-liked by all :thumbup1:. And its getting kinda weird. I double on another sort and I'm treated better by all management on that sort. H*ll, at break on my normal sort, I went to find this full-timer I usually help to see if he needed help on his sort. I found him, sitting in his office, looking at his computer and doing some numbers. He saw me, stood and put his hand out to shake mine. He said, "Ready for tonight?" The part-timer I help is just super. His face lights up everytime he sees me on his area. The fact that I make the aisle eat the **** it talks is probably part of the reason. But, that's a different thread. -Rocky
 

dudebro

Well-Known Member
DS, I can't think of any comments that will carry enough weight when written by one person. All I can advise is to speak your mind on the comments and be fair and honest in your assessment. If you can fit it in only 300 characters (Brevity is the soul of wit) suggest a solution with your problem. I think the folks who refuse to take it are taking the wrong approach. The MORE people who say something the better chance it has of being addressed. Kinda like the general election, where one vote doesn't seem to mean much but ALL the votes do.
As an IE who originally came from the operation, I feel like I have it pretty good and don't have a lot of negative things to say. I know most of you are NOT is that situation, so I advise you to at least be heard. Sorry I don't have a better answer.
I can say that we (the management team) review ERI comments after the survey and make some effort to address them. When a single operation generates LOTS of negative comments it DOES raise eyebrows and it DOES get discussed. I'll admit that many of the those initiatives, no matter how well intended, tend to lose steam in the midst of all the other challenges we face. I know this is frustrating.
 

hdkappler

Well-Known Member
:crying:if you have a c.m.that you don't like call the 8oo number.(1)we had drivers who called union hall reported him for allowing him to let drivers work off the clock in the morning working in there trucks.(2)forced drivers to work during mealtime so he could get his numbers.he is gone after 4 years.thank goodness.tempers were starting to get short.had a retirement party ask him not to come afraid someone would of taken aswing at him.wouldn't want someone to get fired.course no one would of seen anything.i didn't have a retirement party,i didn't want anything.he would of been the last person i wanted to see.i like everyone.(but him)i would shake the person had who would tell him they hated his guts.ever had a c.m. like that.:thumbup1:
 

dudebro

Well-Known Member
IE = Industrial Engineering, the department that plans for how much we need to have with respect to facilities, equipment, and people. The mission of the department is to provide a plan for the best possible service at the lowest possible cost.
TS = Time Study, the study of the conditions for pickup and delivery in defined areas.
Padding = artificially inflating the statistics used to compute the planned driver paid day, so as to appear to perform better with respect to under / over allowed hours.

The wittier among us will have more interesting definitions, but those are the true definitions.
 

Fnix

Well-Known Member
So padding is like this:

I goto buy a new car and the car salesman puts that I make $1000 more per month onto my credit app in hopes of being accepted better?
 

trickpony1

Well-Known Member
"padding" is the politically correct term for "lying".

Kinda like "least best" is the politically correct term for "worst"

.....above all else, we must always consider the other person's feelings.
 

dudebro

Well-Known Member
"least best" is now "most help needed".

"Problems" were changed to "challenges" and more recently, "concerns".

I could go on...
 

hdkappler

Well-Known Member
i have had good c.m. it was just the last one that i didn't like.they are like puppets dm likes his numbers.like yhe saying goes **** goes down steam.
 

JustTired

free at last.......
"least best" is now "most help needed".

"Problems" were changed to "challenges" and more recently, "concerns".

You can call a turd anything you want....but the bottom line is that it will still look, smell and taste like a turd.

You can call a 9.5 day an 8 hr day, if you want. But in the end if it takes you 9.5 hrs to do it, that's what it is.

In my opinion, the company should stop wasting money coming up with new terms for the same old problems. They should stop worrying about being politically correct and start working on correcting the problems (or should I say "concerns") that are plaguing this company.

I'm not holding my breath on that one.
 

Captain America

SuperDAD to the rescue
I'm in IE, so, I know how the allowances are developed and what they contain. Believe it or not, we develop methods by watching real UPS drivers who were pretty good at their job out on the road, making sure it's a safe way to do it (no repetitive end range motions, at risk behaviors, etc.), and writing it down. Then we tell everyone to do it that way, watch about 10,000 people do it, throw out the top and bottom quartile, average the remaining middle 50 percent, and use that time for the allowance. Normal conditions, NORMAL EFFORT, by trained people following the METHODS. That's where all these numbers come from, the 2 walks, the ring bell wait, etc. All of them. Not measured with LaDainian Tomlinson doing it at full speed, or by an office worker with a protractor, but thousands of real life average UPSers. Moreover, when I do the time study, if there's a judgment call where I could or couldn't give the driver the allowance, I ALWAYS gave the allowance as long as I was within the methods. Hey, some day I might be an on-car sup in that center and have to HIT that number.
Usually, when allowances are that far off there's a pretty good reason, but you need someone with proper training to recognize it. One obvious one is new housing or industrial complexes. They change an area in such a way as to require a new time study, but we don't always have the staffing to do it, so it stays out of compliance for a long time.
When I could get a day in here or there as a package IE I would ride drivers to find out what's happening. The stories are endless, and there's always one or two that don't make sense, but here are the most common:
1) The driver spends 10 minutes sorting the air in a tote at the building. You don't get time for that. I understand, the driver doesn't trust the preload and the preload has stuck the driver with out of area airs many times, but THAT'S NOT HOW WE SHOULD RUN THE BUSINESS. The preload should put the right air stops in the 1000 section of the car. And the driver should be able to trust his/her EDD. When that's not the case, we need to FIX IT, not change the allowance to allow for screwing it up.
2) We drive 15 minutes out of trace after the air is done to get the rear door center stop off. "I don't want that in my way all day". It won't be. Deliver all of the packages on the 1000 shelf and the 2000 shelf, which you can reach, and get the bulk stop off when you get there in trace. "I don't like to do that". I understand. You feel better emptying the center of the truck, but you cost yourself a half hour a day with this ONE decision. I'm not talking about SSI accounts or other time commits. Just your standard bulk stop.
3) We spend 45 total minutes a day stopping 4-5 times in a parking lot to "re-sort" the truck. Why are you doing that? "The preload sucks." Are they following the chart/PAS label? "No, that hasn't been right for 4 years." or, "Yea, they tell me to do it one way, but I got my special super secret way to do it I like much better. I make all LEFT turns :laugh:"
The driver I'm portraying above, is at no time ever "lazy". On the contrary, they're usually drenched in sweat all day, and still come in over an hour overallowed. No wonder they feel the allowances are impossible. They're not trained, or when they are, we in management DON'T CREATE the environment that driver needs to succeed. What I find is that if we follow the METHODS, from 4 AM to the check-in, both with the inside ops and the center, these things get resolved. It's a failure of both the driver and management that we don't insist on getting these things fixed. I'll stop a driver out on the road with the on-car sup and say, what is that driver doing? The driver will stick his head out and look at me like I have 3 heads and say, sorting my truck, what do you think? And his on-car sup will look at me the same way. This is when I go nuts, toward the on-car. You're telling me, this driver sorts the truck all day, you know about it, and you think that's the way it should be???? No wonder you OJS the driver for 3 days and the driver comes in more overallowed than when he/she went out alone.
This is where most people tell me, well, be realistic. You're never gonna fix the preload. Fine. I wouldn't give up like that, but fine. Don't come tell me there's something wrong with the allowance after that though. The allowances HAVE to set the standard for PERFECT METHODS. If they don't, how will we know when we're doing something wrong??? The allowances don't always point to where we should work harder, but also, smarter.



Unatainable "PERFECT METHODS". The Standard should be what standardly happens not some pie-in-the-sky, I drink the Kool-Aid so why don't you, not-going-to-happen FANTASY!!:offtopic:
 
W

westsideworma

Guest
"least best" is now "most help needed".

"Problems" were changed to "challenges" and more recently, "concerns".

I could go on...

personally, when I was a loader, if I screwed up I didn't want it sugar coated, just tell me I sucked yesterday and be done with it. I didn't care because I knew one thing, the line I was on didn't run nearly as well when I wasn't in. It made sense as I had the heaviest pull that not too many people other than myself were capable of wrapping...alone anyway (I've heard they threw 2 or 3 supes at it when I was out LOL) and I helped my neighbors everyday which helps the line wrap. My immediate supe said the same thing, i was like then why do I catch so much flak if I have 1 misload every 3 or 4 days. I got because they're never satisfied (something I already knew).
 

scottVA

Richmond-Air
Since the company went public Ive had more center managers than I can count, most of whom quit got fired or ended up on the floor holding their chest. In the last year 2 division managers in package have been busted down to staff or supervior positions. Thsoe complaints filed in Atlanta do work, our last DM was such a jerk drivers would go on vacation and stop in Atlanta to file complaints in person. It got so bad most drivers in my center had corporate on ther cell phones. Complain it works.
 

LKLND3380

Well-Known Member
Anyone ever have a horrible center manger that really wants to fire everyone. If so, what were your experiences and how did you handle the situation. Finally, where is this person today?

Call the 800 number file grievences and in two months he will go from center manager to an on road supe...
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
"Most help needed" has garnered the same negative connotations as "least best. A lot of areas have moved to the word "target" to describe MHN or least best. Example "target load for missorts" or "target operation for SPORH".

This will soon carry the same stigma as the above phrases!!!
 

Hangingon

Well-Known Member
The flagged pick ups. The ones where the shipper forgets to put up the flag then calls in at 6 because they have something going out and the driver hasn't shown up yet.
 

2Slow

Well-Known Member
The flagged pick ups. The ones where the shipper forgets to put up the flag then calls in at 6 because they have something going out and the driver hasn't shown up yet.


"Failure to follow instructions"

Yes, you can get fired for it. I wouldn't do it. Probably will get your job back but there is always that uncertainty...
 

AlaskaMike

Active Member
I'm in IE, so, I know how the allowances are developed and what they contain. Believe it or not, we develop methods by watching real UPS drivers who were pretty good at their job out on the road, making sure it's a safe way to do it (no repetitive end range motions, at risk behaviors, etc.), and writing it down. Then we tell everyone to do it that way, watch about 10,000 people do it, throw out the top and bottom quartile, average the remaining middle 50 percent, and use that time for the allowance. Normal conditions, NORMAL EFFORT, by trained people following the METHODS. That's where all these numbers come from, the 2 walks, the ring bell wait, etc. All of them. Not measured with LaDainian Tomlinson doing it at full speed, or by an office worker with a protractor, but thousands of real life average UPSers. Moreover, when I do the time study, if there's a judgment call where I could or couldn't give the driver the allowance, I ALWAYS gave the allowance as long as I was within the methods. Hey, some day I might be an on-car sup in that center and have to HIT that number.
Usually, when allowances are that far off there's a pretty good reason, but you need someone with proper training to recognize it. One obvious one is new housing or industrial complexes. They change an area in such a way as to require a new time study, but we don't always have the staffing to do it, so it stays out of compliance for a long time.
When I could get a day in here or there as a package IE I would ride drivers to find out what's happening. The stories are endless, and there's always one or two that don't make sense, but here are the most common:
1) The driver spends 10 minutes sorting the air in a tote at the building. You don't get time for that. I understand, the driver doesn't trust the preload and the preload has stuck the driver with out of area airs many times, but THAT'S NOT HOW WE SHOULD RUN THE BUSINESS. The preload should put the right air stops in the 1000 section of the car. And the driver should be able to trust his/her EDD. When that's not the case, we need to FIX IT, not change the allowance to allow for screwing it up.
2) We drive 15 minutes out of trace after the air is done to get the rear door center stop off. "I don't want that in my way all day". It won't be. Deliver all of the packages on the 1000 shelf and the 2000 shelf, which you can reach, and get the bulk stop off when you get there in trace. "I don't like to do that". I understand. You feel better emptying the center of the truck, but you cost yourself a half hour a day with this ONE decision. I'm not talking about SSI accounts or other time commits. Just your standard bulk stop.
3) We spend 45 total minutes a day stopping 4-5 times in a parking lot to "re-sort" the truck. Why are you doing that? "The preload sucks." Are they following the chart/PAS label? "No, that hasn't been right for 4 years." or, "Yea, they tell me to do it one way, but I got my special super secret way to do it I like much better. I make all LEFT turns :laugh:"
The driver I'm portraying above, is at no time ever "lazy". On the contrary, they're usually drenched in sweat all day, and still come in over an hour overallowed. No wonder they feel the allowances are impossible. They're not trained, or when they are, we in management DON'T CREATE the environment that driver needs to succeed. What I find is that if we follow the METHODS, from 4 AM to the check-in, both with the inside ops and the center, these things get resolved. It's a failure of both the driver and management that we don't insist on getting these things fixed. I'll stop a driver out on the road with the on-car sup and say, what is that driver doing? The driver will stick his head out and look at me like I have 3 heads and say, sorting my truck, what do you think? And his on-car sup will look at me the same way. This is when I go nuts, toward the on-car. You're telling me, this driver sorts the truck all day, you know about it, and you think that's the way it should be???? No wonder you OJS the driver for 3 days and the driver comes in more overallowed than when he/she went out alone.
This is where most people tell me, well, be realistic. You're never gonna fix the preload. Fine. I wouldn't give up like that, but fine. Don't come tell me there's something wrong with the allowance after that though. The allowances HAVE to set the standard for PERFECT METHODS. If they don't, how will we know when we're doing something wrong??? The allowances don't always point to where we should work harder, but also, smarter.

In the 17 years I've been here, we've had one time study on one route. And it was done in the summer. (We have snow from beginning October to end of April) I'm usually 2 hours over allowed. My route when I started was 35 miles, 80 stops, 150 pieces in a P500. Today the same route has been split in half with two P700's, 20 miles, 90 stops and 250 pieces each. I used to scratch a couple of times a week, then the allowance per package was cut and now, doing the same stops per hour I never come close.
 
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