upslocal 480, thank you for your wise words. I am not the infamous saintteamo but have read his stuff here and elsewhere and though unpopular i agree with some of it and borrow/use some of his phraseolgyetc. It's sad as another poster said that some want to shut down any other opinions than there own. How do we grow and evolve without discussion. I salute Cheryl for her support of responsible dialogue. I was raised to fight to support the right s of others i disagree with to express there opinions but of cours crying fire in a crowded theatre is unaceptable etc.