DOT rules "Re-explained"

[wornoutupser]

New PCM yesterday- we were told that package drivers are now not covered by the 11 hour rule and that we can drive 14 hours. We were also told that only feeders are covered by the 11 hour rule.
Several of our drivers have read the actual languge and immediately begin to disagree. We turned around and asked the steward and we were told to work as much as you want since UPS does whatever it wants.
Two interesting notes here:
1) We have filed over and over for not being able to do additional work in the eveings due to lack of hours (shuttle work) and UPS has denied everything for "no hours available".
2) Peak is rolling much heavier than the predictions here and everyone is out late. Now thy can squeeze more hours out of us!
Hey,the fine is against the driver and I guess that they want us to have enough money to pay it!

I am in Central Florida.

 

[InTheRed]

I am in Central Florida.

At least it's not cold?

 

[wornoutupser]

Heck yeah it is cold here. I had to wear long pants twice last week!

 

[trickpony1]

"...the fine is against the driver......"
I would refuse to sign the ticket and explain to the officer that we have to work as instructed or the company will fire us.

 

[rckfrd98]

actually all ups drivers fall under the 100 air mile radius clause you can work all the hours you want

 

[scratch]

I hope the sixty hour rule hasn't changed. I started working Early AM NDA this week, and I put in about fifty-five hours. My Center Manager is very concerned about my hours. My Supervisor supposedly is going to pull stops off my regular route, but this hasn't happened yet, along with getting me a map book and a car to drive at 6:30 AM! I laughed today when I looked at the Operations Report, they figure in my stops per hour on both routes.

 

[tieguy]

worn not sure what you are talking about. The 11 hour rule and the 14 hour rule are two distinctly different DOT rules.

1) The 11 hour rule applies to actual drive time on the road. Under this rule you can not drive more than 11 hours on any given work day. To track this element you would have to track how much time you drive on the road. Not deliver or anything else but drive. Because you drive within 150 miles of your building DOT does not require you to track your drive time and you are not expected to log this info.

2) the 14 hour rule applies to total time at work from punch in to punch out time. You do not subtract meals or breaks when measuring this time. Therefore if you punch in at 8 pm you have to be off the clock at 10 pm regardless of whether you took a lunch or not. This rule is also supposed to apply to commercial drivers driving more than 150 miles from your building.

3) the sixty hour rule applies to total on duty time in a week. to calculate this number you do subtract meals and breaks.

While you are not expected to comply with 1 and 2 above if you drive less than 150 miles from your building you are expected to comply with the sixty hour rule if you drive.

The penalty for not following those rules is that you and the company can be fined heavily by DOT.

 

[scratch]

Tie,

Thanks for the clarification. I'm still a "wornoutupser" also. :sleep1:

 

[trickpony1]

Tie,
Your day must have more than 24 hours in it.
This is not rocket science.
For those of us who have 24 hours in our day, it can be broken down as follows:
10 hours must be off work.......this leaves 14.
1 hour for meal (doesn't include paid breaks in some areas), this leaves 13 hours to work.

Once again, 10 + 1 + 13 equals 24

I know this has probably confused some of you.

 

[over9five]

Tie is mostly right except we do have to comply with his 1 and 2:

See

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations

Scroll down to the blue box "New Short-Haul Provision".

At least.....thats how I understand it.....(and I was wrong once before.....a long time ago...)

 

[mattwtrs]

Why is everyone so concerned about DOT hours? In our district the big push is to eliminate the paid over 9.5's. In the past we had a good center team that did not worry about the planned under 8's and when the air was on time in the AM everyone worked together and made it happen. Then last summer around the 4th of July it was cut routes and load them up. You guessed right the injuries and accidents went thru the roof. We now have PAS and a new manager that's trying to get things back to normal which is reduce over 9.5's and still make Net D Por( I think it means net delivered pieces per hour). He said summers coming and everyone deserves a chance to be home for the family. I hope this lasts longer than the 4th of July last year

 

[tieguy]

Tie,
Your day must have more than 24 hours in it.
This is not rocket science.
For those of us who have 24 hours in our day, it can be broken down as follows:
10 hours must be off work.......this leaves 14.
1 hour for meal (doesn't include paid breaks in some areas), this leaves 13 hours to work.

Once again, 10 + 1 + 13 equals 24

I know this has probably confused some of you.

Trick not sure why you would think my day would have more than 24 hours? perhaps you could go back and actually read what I said this time.?

 

[trickpony1]

Tie,
Item 2 of your post talks about "the 14 hour rule applies to total time at work from punch in to punch out."

Your next statement says, "You do not subtract meals or breaks when measuring this time".

So, once again, if there are only 24 hours in my day and I have to be off work for 10 of those hours (DOT mandate), that means there are 14 hours left to do something. You seem to be saying that I can work all 14 of those hours.

What about meal? I am required (by the company) to take a hour meal and the DOT considers meal as "off duty" time. I guess I can falsify my DOT logbook.

So, again, I refer to my original contention that:

10 (required by DOT to be off work) + 1 (required meal) + 13 (hours available to work) = 24.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[tieguy]

Tie is mostly right except we do have to comply with his 1 and 2:

See

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations

Scroll down to the blue box "New Short-Haul Provision".

At least.....thats how I understand it.....(and I was wrong once before.....a long time ago...)

one of those rules that would confuse you. It says you are subjected to those rules but it does not require you to carry a log.

 

[tieguy]

"...the fine is against the driver......"
I would refuse to sign the ticket and explain to the officer that we have to work as instructed or the company will fire us.

Thats the kind of advice that would get you fired. No management person can make you violate DOT hours.

 

[trickpony1]

OOPS!
I forgot....the company is always right and would never do anything illegal.
So sorry.

It must be wonderful to be management and have all of the control but none of the responsibility whereas the hourly worker has all of the responsibility but none of the control.

 

[tieguy]

What about meal? I am required (by the company) to take a hour meal and the DOT considers meal as "off duty" time. I guess I can falsify my DOT logbook.

So, again, I refer to my original contention that:

10 (required by DOT to be off work) + 1 (required meal) + 13 (hours available to work) = 24.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

The 14 hour rule is one of the main differences with the new rule. you just let yourself get caught up in the mind set that does make the issue confusing.

Regardless of whether you take a meal or not if you start at 8 am you have to punch out by 10 pm. Period. Take a meal punch out by 10 pm. Don't take a meal punch out by 10 pm. Period.

 

[tieguy]

It must be wonderful to be management and have all of the control but none of the responsibility whereas the hourly worker has all of the responsibility but none of the control.

I think telling a police officer that you performed an unsafe act because the supervisor made you do it would be a pretty weak defense. No supervisor can ever make you perform an unsafe act and violating DOT hours is clearly an unsafe act.

As far as your comment above about managment have all the control in fact its much better to be a driver when hours are violated. you would get a warning letter slap on the wrist while I as your supervisor would get my tonsils removed through my rear. You need to get a job at UPS so you can actually learn about these things . Oh thats right you claim to already work here.

 

[trickpony1]

I won't post anymore on this topic other than to say that the DOT says a driver has to be off work for at least 10 hours from when he/she clocks out until when he/she clocks in again.

The DOT DOES NOT say a driver has to be off 9 hours from when he/she clocks out until he/she clocks back in again and must take a hour meal sometime during the next "on duty" rotation.

The 10 hours off is strictly enforced in our feeder department especially among cover drivers whom the company can turn around in 10 hours.

I don't know why this is so complicated for some people.

I wish you the best of luck.

 

[tieguy]

I won't post anymore on this topic other than to say that the DOT says a driver has to be off work for at least 10 hours from when he/she clocks out until when he/she clocks in again.

The DOT DOES NOT say a driver has to be off 9 hours from when he/she clocks out until he/she clocks back in again and must take a hour meal sometime during the next "on duty" rotation.

The 10 hours off is strictly enforced in our feeder department especially among cover drivers whom the company can turn around in 10 hours.

I don't know why this is so complicated for some people.

I wish you the best of luck.

No dispute here on the 10 hour rule.